Calgary International Airport II

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

If AC was truly cancelling LEG-LHR you'd think they'd keep the 2nd flight YYC-LHR to handle the YEG demand. Everything we've seen with YYC-London numbers shows it to be a healthy route.

If the reduction helps BA make their route work, I'm happy.

[Cage]

The rouge 321s are for YYZ-Florida and YYZ-Bermuda operations with potential for YUL as well.

Overall AC is getting 9-10 A321s with some being brand new. four have all ready been purchased for mainline and another 5 will come on stream for rouge. Rouge narrowbody has a 25 aircraft limit, so atleast 5 319s are remaining with mainline.

Actually worst kept secret is that within 18 months all Western Canada rouge 319 flying will transition back to mainline 319s. The new pilot equipment bid does not have YVR rouge 319 base and the flight attendants have been told that eventually YVR rouge base will only support 763 flying.

For AB-Hawaii, the removal of rouge 319s from Western Canada will not have an impact. It remains to be seen what happens to the LAS rouge flying, its possible that both YYC and YVR will transition to 763 rouge. But SFO, LAX, PHX etc. will all return to mainline equipment. My guess is the transition will happen with the summer 2016 schedule.

Freeing up 5-8 rouge narrowbody slots allows for additional 321 purchases on 1:1 basis.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Cage

Actually worst kept secret is that within 18 months all Western Canada rouge 319 flying will transition back to mainline 319s. The new pilot equipment bid does not have YVR rouge 319 base and the flight attendants have been told that eventually YVR rouge base will only support 763 flying.

For AB-Hawaii, the removal of rouge 319s from Western Canada will not have an impact. It remains to be seen what happens to the LAS rouge flying, its possible that both YYC and YVR will transition to 763 rouge. But SFO, LAX, PHX etc. will all return to mainline equipment. My guess is the transition will happen with the summer 2016 schedule.

Looks like it.

Summer 2016 - scheds now showing all mainline on:

YVR-LAX 5 daily 320s
YVR-SFO 4 daily 320s
YYC-LAX 2 daily 320s

YVR-ANC, YVR-LAS and YYC-LAS still showing rouge 319s. PHX and PSP operate winter only so can't see that far ahead yet anyway.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

They must be moving other flights around then because the YYC/YEG flights landed in LHR at 11:50. The new YVR flight will arrive at 14:20... so much later.

Either way, those two arrival times mean later than midnight departures from the east coast. Not happening.

Originally Posted by Cage

The rouge 321s are for YYZ-Florida and YYZ-Bermuda operations with potential for YUL as well.

YUL-FLL/LAS as well. One daily each to start the winter season. FLL goes up to 2x daily A321 from Feb.

Basically, yes, they are based in the east coast.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Thoughts on if/when we'll see the YYC-OGG/HNL flights go Rouge?

At the current exchange rate I wouldn't be surprised to see Hawaii flights take a beating this year.

There were some pretty smoking fares to OGG (yycdeals.com) which was making me also wonder what bookings were like.

Originally Posted by Cage

The rouge 321s are for YYZ-Florida and YYZ-Bermuda operations with potential for YUL as well.

Overall AC is getting 9-10 A321s with some being brand new. four have all ready been purchased for mainline and another 5 will come on stream for rouge. Rouge narrowbody has a 25 aircraft limit, so atleast 5 319s are remaining with mainline.

Actually worst kept secret is that within 18 months all Western Canada rouge 319 flying will transition back to mainline 319s. The new pilot equipment bid does not have YVR rouge 319 base and the flight attendants have been told that eventually YVR rouge base will only support 763 flying.

For AB-Hawaii, the removal of rouge 319s from Western Canada will not have an impact. It remains to be seen what happens to the LAS rouge flying, its possible that both YYC and YVR will transition to 763 rouge. But SFO, LAX, PHX etc. will all return to mainline equipment. My guess is the transition will happen with the summer 2016 schedule.

Freeing up 5-8 rouge narrowbody slots allows for additional 321 purchases on 1:1 basis.

Any chance those could go Jazz on the RJ's?

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Cage

Rouge narrowbody has a 25 aircraft limit, so atleast 5 319s are remaining with mainline.

Cage where does the 25 aircraft limit come from? I think there is also a 25 aircraft limit for the wide bodies right? Does this have to do with collective bargaining with the mainline in that Rouge can only "take away a maximum of x aircraft?".

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Hmm, my avgeek knowledge is slightly rusty on the A321's but I think they are not ideal birds for AB-Hawaii.

Wikipedia shows a maximum range of 3,000 nm or 3,200 with sharklets -- both 100 nm shorter range than the A320.

YYC-OGG is 3090 nm on a straight curve... so.... "hey kids, we got to the beach faster than we thought!"

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

Wikipedia shows a maximum range of 3,000 nm or 3,200 with sharklets -- both 100 nm shorter range than the A320.

YYC-OGG is 3090 nm on a straight curve... so.... "hey kids, we got to the beach faster than we thought!"

Just put 'er down next to Molokini, my snorkel gear is in my carry on.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Cage where does the 25 aircraft limit come from? I think there is also a 25 aircraft limit for the wide bodies right? Does this have to do with collective bargaining with the mainline in that Rouge can only "take away a maximum of x aircraft?".

Collective bargaining with the pilots is where the 25 limit comes from.

The initial limit was 30 A319s and 20 763s in the previous pilot contract. The new 10yr pilot contract has 25 narrowbody and 25 widebody aircraft.

Even before Rouge was launched there was speculation the 319 was not right aircraft for the operation. Hence the introduction of the 321 to provide more lift potential.

Additionally, the FA contract has limits on the ability to put in Business Class seats. This contract clause was altered to allow for introduction of domestic business class seats onto the 319s.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by lubicon

Any chance those could go Jazz on the RJ's?

Not likely, the 319s have to stay in the AC group fleet plan, plus my understanding is that these flights are still profitable, but there are operational reasons for not maintaining a small subfleet for rouge 319s at YVR base.

Additionally, we could see the return of 320 or 321 to the route, together with 319s being sent elsewhere.

[Bokimon]

I'm looking at February bookings to Vegas from YYC and Rouge flights are being shown as 763 equip. I'm not sure if this is widespread which could mean the fleet change plan will have already been underway.

It would be good to see some Rouge heavies grace yyc for once.

Also don't forget the YVR-LHR leg is getting some beefy double decker artillery from BA next summer so maybe AC adding the second daily flight might be to keep up with the seat count to stay competitive? I guess YVR-London must really be a huge hit on that route. Probably rivaling YVR-PEK/PVG for daily seats being sold.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bokimon

I'm looking at February bookings to Vegas from YYC and Rouge flights are being shown as 763 equip. I'm not sure if this is widespread which could mean the fleet change plan will have already been underway.

It would be good to see some Rouge heavies grace yyc for once.

Also don't forget the YVR-LHR leg is getting some beefy double decker artillery from BA next summer so maybe AC adding the second daily flight might be to keep up with the seat count to stay competitive? I guess YVR-London must really be a huge hit on that route. Probably rivaling YVR-PEK/PVG for daily seats being sold.

Rouge 763 is on early AC1832/1833 for YVR-LAS, this is same as last year. In this instance the 763 does YVR-LAS-YVR while a second 763 does YVR-LAX-YVR before both airplanes to YVR-HNL/OGG-YVR. Using the 763 on daytime LAS & LAX runs increases utilization and brings in good revenue.

ETA: The BA 380 is a reduction in seats IIRC.

[Johnny Aussie]

According to this press release, Air Canada will upgauge all three international routes out of YYC to Dreamliners.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=933

Not specific whether they will be 787-8 or 787-9.

My hunch is YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA go 787-9 and with YVR-PVG going 777 replacing the 787-8 this frees up a 787-8 for YYC-NRT.

YYC-LHR going to be a 787-8 from Jan - April anyway.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

According to this press release, Air Canada will upgauge all three international routes out of YYC to Dreamliners.

Wow, 2016 is really going to be the "Year of the Dreamliner"

5 787 Aircraft per day! BA, KLM and 3X Air Canada. The International Terminal is going to look sleek with all these new jets parked there!

[Bigtime]

Holy hell, we'll get bored of 787's!

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

According to this press release, Air Canada will upgauge all three international routes out of YYC to Dreamliners.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=933

Not specific whether they will be 787-8 or 787-9.

My hunch is YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA go 787-9 and with YVR-PVG going 777 replacing the 787-8 this frees up a 787-8 for YYC-NRT.

YYC-LHR going to be a 787-8 from Jan - April anyway.

All the above plus I have a feeling YYC-PEK got delayed for one year due to economic slow down.The 788 will instead go YYZ-ICN.

[Bokimon]

Originally Posted by Cage

Rouge 763 is on early AC1832/1833 for YVR-LAS, this is same as last year. In this instance the 763 does YVR-LAS-YVR while a second 763 does YVR-LAX-YVR before both airplanes to YVR-HNL/OGG-YVR. Using the 763 on daytime LAS & LAX runs increases utilization and brings in good revenue.

ETA: The BA 380 is a reduction in seats IIRC.

Yes you are right, my damn google flights keeps on loading YVR as the default airport and it is raising my hopes up unnecessarily.
And two daily jumbos do indeed have more seats than an 380, but I would definitely consider this an upgrade in equipment if it involves a flagship whaleliner. It is good that western Canada finally gets to see some Super heavy action.

Good news about AC media release this morning! But yes, dreamliner burnout could be a problem..

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Holy hell, we'll get bored of 787's!

So will have anything else but:

• Dash 8s
• E-Jets
• 737Maxs
• and 787s

in 5 years? I guess maybe those regional air King Air kit bashes, and cargo.

[Bigtime]

We'll probably still also have:

-Cargo 747's
-The odd 777
-Transat A330's
-Rouge A319's or 767's
-WestJet 767's (maybe a 787 or two in there?)
-CRJ-700's (AC variant and US operators, and Suncor)
-"Classic" 737's courtesy of Air North and Canadian North

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

So will have anything else but:

• Dash 8s
• E-Jets
• 737Maxs
• and 787s

in 5 years? I guess maybe those regional air King Air kit bashes, and cargo.

In 5 years AC will only be 1/2 way through their narrowbody upgrade program. so there will still be 319/320/321 comming through YYC. Also AC has not confirmed replacement for 25 E-Jets, could still see CS100 (if it ever gets to commercial service) or more 73G. Finally, AC has never completed a 1:1 replacement program, some of the older aircraft always stick around the fleet far longer than intended.