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  #1  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
Adding DC/Baltimore. This might be complete for metros over 20,000 people living over 20k ppsm.

New York: 9,151,543
Los Angeles: 1,919,006
Chicago: 1,238,801
San Francisco: 899,765
Philadelphia: 841,729
Boston: 727,666
Washington: 501,510
Miami: 396,021
Honolulu: 182,167
Seattle: 160,101
San Diego: 103,421
Houston: 88,080
Baltimore: 67,095
San Jose: 64,724
Dallas: 54,893
Minneapolis: 52,998
Denver: 49,423
Milwaukee: 47,988
Bridgeport: 47,791
Providence: 39,442
Portland: 38,057
Madison: 35,514
Columbus: 31,592
Allentown: 29,319
Atlanta: 26,589
Worcester: 26,374
Las Vegas: 26,114
Austin: 23,224
Champaign: 22,271
Phoenix: 20,351
That seems very high for Washington.
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  #2  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That seems very high for Washington.

Washington MSA
Montgomery, MD 48,774
Prince Georges, MD 24,708
DC 288,907
Arlington, VA 83,467
Alexandria, VA 37,303
Fairfax County 18,351

All other counties and equivalents are 0. (Unless I missed a Virginia city.)
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  #3  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 10:02 PM
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Are you including Allentown with Philly? Looks like Lehigh County would make the cut with 29,319: https://mtgis-server.geo.census.gov/...Default&f=html

Also Worcester County in Massachusetts is 26,374!
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  #4  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Are you including Allentown with Philly? Looks like Lehigh County would make the cut with 29,319: https://mtgis-server.geo.census.gov/...Default&f=html
No, since Allentown is outside the MSA. Likewise for Boulder with Denver. Added Allentown.
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  #5  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 10:22 PM
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I tried the query tool but my search was 'rejected.'

Anybody want to run a query with Census tracts of, say, 30,000+ ppsm?
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  #6  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 10:46 PM
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Total US population in census tracts above 10k density: 39,049,224
Total US population in census tracts above 20k density: 17,317,678
Total US population in census tracts above 30k density: 10,656,582
Total US population in census tracts above 40k density: 7,709,739
Total US population in census tracts above 50k density: 6,128,182
Total US population in census tracts above 60k density: 4,861,268
Total US population in census tracts above 70k density: 3,829,651
Total US population in census tracts above 80k density: 2,959,145
Total US population in census tracts above 90k density: 2,346,202
Total US population in census tracts above 100k density: 1,738,146
Total US population in census tracts above 110k density: 1,326,501
Total US population in census tracts above 120k density: 889,149
Total US population in census tracts above 130k density: 672,056
Total US population in census tracts above 140k density: 473,606
Total US population in census tracts above 150k density: 358,938
Total US population in census tracts above 160k density: 261,368
Total US population in census tracts above 170k density: 191,494
Total US population in census tracts above 180k density: 140,687
Total US population in census tracts above 190k density: 67,924
Total US population in census tracts above 200k density: 62,356
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  #7  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Total US population in census tracts above 10k density: 39,049,224
Total US population in census tracts above 20k density: 17,317,678
Total US population in census tracts above 30k density: 10,656,582
Total US population in census tracts above 40k density: 7,709,739
Total US population in census tracts above 50k density: 6,128,182
Total US population in census tracts above 60k density: 4,861,268
Total US population in census tracts above 70k density: 3,829,651
Total US population in census tracts above 80k density: 2,959,145
Total US population in census tracts above 90k density: 2,346,202
Total US population in census tracts above 100k density: 1,738,146
Total US population in census tracts above 110k density: 1,326,501
Total US population in census tracts above 120k density: 889,149
Total US population in census tracts above 130k density: 672,056
Total US population in census tracts above 140k density: 473,606
Total US population in census tracts above 150k density: 358,938
Total US population in census tracts above 160k density: 261,368
Total US population in census tracts above 170k density: 191,494
Total US population in census tracts above 180k density: 140,687
Total US population in census tracts above 190k density: 67,924
Total US population in census tracts above 200k density: 62,356
Whoa. Nice work!
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  #8  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Total US population in census tracts above 10k density: 39,049,224
Total US population in census tracts above 20k density: 17,317,678
Total US population in census tracts above 30k density: 10,656,582
Total US population in census tracts above 40k density: 7,709,739
Total US population in census tracts above 50k density: 6,128,182
Total US population in census tracts above 60k density: 4,861,268
Total US population in census tracts above 70k density: 3,829,651
Total US population in census tracts above 80k density: 2,959,145
Total US population in census tracts above 90k density: 2,346,202
Total US population in census tracts above 100k density: 1,738,146
Total US population in census tracts above 110k density: 1,326,501
Total US population in census tracts above 120k density: 889,149
Total US population in census tracts above 130k density: 672,056
Total US population in census tracts above 140k density: 473,606
Total US population in census tracts above 150k density: 358,938
Total US population in census tracts above 160k density: 261,368
Total US population in census tracts above 170k density: 191,494
Total US population in census tracts above 180k density: 140,687
Total US population in census tracts above 190k density: 67,924
Total US population in census tracts above 200k density: 62,356
Almost 12% of the U.S. lives in +10k density. That's a little higher than I would've guessed.
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  #9  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 1:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Almost 12% of the U.S. lives in +10k density. That's a little higher than I would've guessed.
Its amazing how sparse the U.S. is once you leave certain metros. And I mean sparse and empty.
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  #10  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
One more data dump tonight: going to 30k, NYC becomes more dominant.

Of the 10,656,582 people in the US over 30k, the NYC metro accounts for 65% of them.
New York: 6,919,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Total US population in census tracts above 10k density: 39,049,224
Total US population in census tracts above 20k density: 17,317,678
Total US population in census tracts above 30k density: 10,656,582
Total US population in census tracts above 40k density: 7,709,739
Total US population in census tracts above 50k density: 6,128,182
Total US population in census tracts above 60k density: 4,861,268
Total US population in census tracts above 70k density: 3,829,651
Total US population in census tracts above 80k density: 2,959,145
Total US population in census tracts above 90k density: 2,346,202
Total US population in census tracts above 100k density: 1,738,146
Total US population in census tracts above 110k density: 1,326,501
Total US population in census tracts above 120k density: 889,149
Total US population in census tracts above 130k density: 672,056
Total US population in census tracts above 140k density: 473,606
Total US population in census tracts above 150k density: 358,938
Total US population in census tracts above 160k density: 261,368
Total US population in census tracts above 170k density: 191,494
Total US population in census tracts above 180k density: 140,687
Total US population in census tracts above 190k density: 67,924
Total US population in census tracts above 200k density: 62,356
It seems even at 20k/sqmi, NYC still has 53% of US residents living at this density or higher
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  #11  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 1:23 PM
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It's probably already been mentioned on this thread but Philadelphia going back over the 1.6 million mark, and having its highest population in 40 years (the 1980 census) is in many ways a miracle. I grew up with so many people in the Philly area telling me Philly is Detroit, a dying/dead city--and nothing would ever change that. And in the mid-90's, it really did look that way (read Buzz Bissinger's, A Prayer for the City - for a glimpse into 1990s Philly). Don't get me wrong, Philadelphia still has a lot of problems, it's the poorest big city in America, but the renaissance of Center City and the surrounding neighborhoods over the last 20 years has been remarkable.
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  #12  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia View Post
It's probably already been mentioned on this thread but Philadelphia going back over the 1.6 million mark, and having its highest population in 40 years (the 1980 census) is in many ways a miracle. I grew up with so many people in the Philly area telling me Philly is Detroit, a dying/dead city--and nothing would ever change that. And in the mid-90's, it really did look that way (read Buzz Bissinger's, A Prayer for the City - for a glimpse into 1990s Philly). Don't get me wrong, Philadelphia still has a lot of problems, it's the poorest big city in America, but the renaissance of Center City and the surrounding neighborhoods over the last 20 years has been remarkable.
Philadelphia and Detroit were/are fairly alike. Similar demographics, similar peak populations, similar densities, both socked by longterm post-industrial declines, both dealing with racial strife, both undermined by heavy flight/suburbanization. I guess you could say if Detroit had pneumonia, Philly had the flu.
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  #13  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Philadelphia and Detroit were/are fairly alike. Similar demographics, similar peak populations, similar densities, both socked by longterm post-industrial declines, both dealing with racial strife, both undermined by heavy flight/suburbanization. I guess you could say if Detroit had pneumonia, Philly had the flu.
Does St. Louis have coronavirus?
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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  #14  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Philadelphia and Detroit were/are fairly alike. Similar demographics, similar peak populations, similar densities, both socked by longterm post-industrial declines, both dealing with racial strife, both undermined by heavy flight/suburbanization. I guess you could say if Detroit had pneumonia, Philly had the flu.
Philadelphia fared far better though. It's preserved much more of it's building stock and is recovering quicker. Part of this is to do with location (Philadelphia being the cheapest major metro area in the Bos-Wash Corridor), and part of it I think is Detroit was basically a one industry city (automobile), so it fell harder. Philadelphia was more diversified, so while post industrialization and suburbanization hit the city hard, it wasn't totally screwed and was able to cling to life by it's other industries.
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  #15  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Philadelphia and Detroit were/are fairly alike. Similar demographics, similar peak populations, similar densities, both socked by longterm post-industrial declines, both dealing with racial strife, both undermined by heavy flight/suburbanization. I guess you could say if Detroit had pneumonia, Philly had the flu.
Emphasis on 'were.' Today, Detroit has only 39% of Philadelphia's population; they are in different leagues now.
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  #16  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2021, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Philadelphia and Detroit were/are fairly alike. Similar demographics, similar peak populations, similar densities, both socked by longterm post-industrial declines, both dealing with racial strife, both undermined by heavy flight/suburbanization. I guess you could say if Detroit had pneumonia, Philly had the flu.
Philadelphia was never going the down the same path as Detroit. It may have looked like it, and it got really bad for a good 20 years, but Philly had assets that were going to save it in the long run as long as smart people in charge didn't completely mess it up. In fact, one can say the seeds for the rebound were already being planted stating in the 1950's as the old industrial city was in it's rapid decline.

I can't say what has gone on or not gone on in Detroit since the 1950's..but Philadelphia was changing for the good and bad. First it started with ousting the hopelessly corrupt Republican machine that let the city slide backwards since the Depression. The city government was reformed and professionals were now put in city offices that were basically bastions of nepotism for years. Sure yeah, the Democrats wound up be somewhat corrupt to over the years but it has never come as close as the corruption of the old Republican machine. So..a new city charter and offices. Check. In the 1950's, new housing was still going up in the Far Northeast. This area would provide a pretty stable tax base for the city for many years while North and West Philly hollowed out. In Center City, the biggest change was tearing down the old Pennsylvania Railroad Viaduct (The Chinese Wall) that literally sucked the life out of the that part of town. Many of Philadelphia's West Market skyscrapers now sit on that footprint. We would not have the modern Center City with that still plopped in the middle of town. While the initial Penn Center was not Ed Bacon's finest hour, it was a start. Also, the makeover of Society Hill in the 1950's took a run down mess and made it one of the finest neighborhoods in the city. There would be no tourism in the historic district if that area was still a run down mess.

The 1960's sped up the industrial decline. People kept moving out, but the city wasn't knocked down yet.

The 70's were bad. Crime up. Taxes up. Bicentennial celebration blown. Biggest 10 year drop in population. An idiot for a mayor. However, he did one thing right that helped Philly in years to come, he bilked Nixon for the money to build the commuter rail tunnel under Center City and by 1984, the old Reading and PRR lines were now one unified system now run by SEPTA. The REading Terminal would go dark with the new Market East Station but that would be turned into a plus a decade later.

The 1980's. Really bad. Another idiot mayor. He blew up a whole neighborhood and the city went broke. Abandonment was everywhere. It was looking like we were following Detroit. However, the next major happening took place (another seed planted) that would spur Philadelphia back up in he coming years. The dreaded Gentleman's Agreement on height limits was broken. On the same day Mayor No Goode bombed Osage Ave, they had the ceremonial ground breaking for Liberty Place. That skyscraper was the one to put Center City back on track. Within a few years of it's completion in 1987..it's twin Liberty 2, Mellon Bank Center and what I still call the Bell Atlantic Tower...gave Philly a modern skyline. It was another small step forward even if the city still took two steps backwards with more industrial decline and people leaving the city.

The 1990's...Ed Rendell saves the city. Bankruptcy was averted. The Center City District was born...another seed planted for the future turn around. Center City had kept a decent residential population over the years but it had gotten kind of sketchy on some streets. Porn theaters were a plenty. Lots of surface lots. The Gallery opened in the 70's and it did okay for a while but a suburban mall in the city was not really the answer. But...the notion of investing in the Center City and hoping it's success would spread out in every direction was a pretty risky one to take. I think it has worked. Center City got cleaner, brighter and safer. The old Reading Terminal was part of the new convention center and the city's hospitality industry was able to start growing . Yes...the population in other parts of the city were going down, but by the end of the 90's, it was growing in Center City and it would spread out in every direction for the next two decades.

By the time the city started adding residents in the mid 2000's, the tax abatement for new housing was already 6-7 years old. It was initially for rehabs of old buildings for new housing purposes, but it was expanded for new construction. The downside of that was that it starved the schools of tax revenue and I understood why council wanted to end it recently. However, it did get people to move to the city. Also, the tax abatement did nothing to promote new affordable housing which was a minus.

So..these things are why I think Philly was never in danger of crashing like Detroit. Also it was mentioned that Philly always had a diversified economy while Detroit was more of a one industry town. What was part of Philly's diversity was the fact that it has major universities that help drive it's economy and Detroit does not. Philly has Ivy League Penn, Temple, Drexel, St. Joe's and Jefferson generating a lot of jobs and money. Penn was on the road to spending billion in University City/West Philly since the 90's and has completely transformed the area with all of those new towers and facilities. it's amazing. Drexel has not been a slouch and Temple breathed new life in the blocks around it in what seemed like a hopeless North Philly. Detroit has Wayne State. I'm sure it's a good school, but it's not Penn, Temple or Drexel and they aren't going to spend what Penn did. I can't even fathom a school spending so much but damn Penn is still doing it. Penn Medicine is a power house and we still have Jefferson.

Also, not every part of Philly saw decline and abandonment even during the worst years of population losses. There were always good sections. I don't know if that happened in Detroit or not where parts of town stayed intact. It seems like the narrative is most parts of town got hit. I don't know.

Other things like investment into PHL over the years to make the region more attactive. I mean PHL for all of it's flaws took the UScareways now American hub away from a much more modern airport in Pittsburgh. The airport was good enough for UPS to set up a shop there. 30th Street Station being one of the busiest rail stations in the US and right there on the cusp of Center City is anther major plus for Philly.

Also, the opening of the Blue Route in the suburbs in the 90's was major development for the region, making it more accessible and the connection of 95 onto the PA Turnpike to give a direct route between Philly and New York will pay dividends going forward. No more having to take back roads to get to the Jersey Turnpike from the city!

It is all of these things that the comparison of Philly and Detroit just never made sense to me. There was never any real chance that Philly was going to bleed so many people and see so many sections of the city be abandoned. I can't imagine most of South Philly ever being abandoned. Most of the Northeast as well. Chestnut Hill? Nope? Roxborough? Nope. Even Manayunk got cool again in the 90's and it's still a magnet for millennials.

Philadelphia's last major hurdle that it just can't seem to get over is reform of it's tax code. The business taxes as they are currently set up are stupid. They basically double dip on them. They hold back huge job growth that other cities see. The wage tax sucks too. It was the first city in the country to levy a wage tax in 1939 with a 1% tax on wages. (by Republicans no less) In the late 60's and 70's the city chose to raise the tax rate on things that could move away in order not to tax the things that can't be moved...like property. Mayor Crumb Bum (Rizzo) didn't want to raise property taxes so he raised the wage and business taxes in the 70's. Guess what happened, jobs and people left at it's highest 10 year rate. By the 8o's the city wage tax for residents was closing in on 5%. It's 3.8398% now. People who live outside the city but work in it has to pay the high wage tax too. That doesn't make working there that attractive. The city needs to find a tax code that allows it to compete with other cities while growing the tax base. Easier said than done but something has to give one of these days. You can't keep this tax code while Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas take your lunch.
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  #17  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2021, 4:39 AM
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New York MSA above each density bin:
20k: 9,151,543 (52.8% of the US)
30k: 7,530,804 (70.7% of the US)
40k: 6,387,118 (82.8% of the US)
50k: 5,384,766 (87.9% of the US)
60k: 4,388,545 (90.3% of the US)
70k: 3,527,320 (92.1% of the US)
80k: 2,815,068 (95.1% of the US)
90k: 2,233,741 (95.2% of the US)
100k: 1,678,781 (96.6% of the US)
110k: 1,295,317 (97.6% of the US)
120k: 859,567 (96.7% of the US)
130k: 651,497 (96.9% of the US)
140k: 455,667 (96.2% of the US)
150k: 346,012 (96.4% of the US)

Thanks to SIGSEGV's national numbers.

Remaining counties at 90k ppsm (the last bin with Manhattan over 1M):
Manhattan: 1,187,006
Bronx: 488,485
Brooklyn: 300,720
Queens: 231,638
San Francisco: 41,743
Hudson, NJ: 20,162
Miami-Dade: 13,596
Suffolk, MA: 12,730
Cook, IL: 11,082
Essex, NJ: 5,730
Philadelphia: 5,289
Honolulu: 4,148
Arlington, VA: 3,812
King, WA: 3,506
Los Angeles: 2,124

Runner-up MSAs:
20k to 30k: Los Angeles
40k to 60k: Chicago
Above 70k: San Francisco
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  #18  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2021, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
Remaining counties at 90k ppsm (the last bin with Manhattan over 1M): Manhattan: 1,187,006...
Philadelphia: 5,289
Arlington, VA: 3,812
Worth noting that these two metros cleared 90K but are shy of 100K. It seems that a new apartment tower opened in Arlington's tract, which should push it over 100K. Nothing's currently underway in Philly's two just-under-100K tracts (east of Rittenhouse Square), though since it's Philly they're surprisingly mixed-height.

Amazing that over 96% of the Americans who live in these shoulder-to-shoulder high-rise Census tracts live in or around NYC. The scale of NYC is really something else.

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Northern NJ, right across the Hudson from Manhattan, has a Chicago-sized swath of higher density urbanity.
Huh, hadn't thought of it that way before but -- wow, that's impressive.
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  #19  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 11:11 PM
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Awesome! I wonder what the same thing is minus the New York metro.
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  #20  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2021, 11:26 PM
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How about a calc of % of metro pop living in tracts over 20k/sq mile?

Also can we find city level data? For example -
Jersey City.
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