Saskatoon Construction

[midnightrambler]

....

[shmakim]

Off topic I'd like to see some solid planning work on light rail transit for the city using the existing rail lines.[/QUOTE]

I'd previously decried the viability of LRT in Saskatoon cause of the huge capital outlay and reltiavely small size, plus right of way issues. At the time, I'd supposed that bus rapid transit would be much more economical and viable because of reduced implementation cost, and better integration into our road-intensive infrastructure.

But after last post, that reminded me of a proposed plan I heard about moving all the existing rail lines outside the city, and using the previously allocated land for an LRT. Exciting proposal, as the right-of-way and track construction issues would practically vanish. But has anyone considered the usefulness of the existing lay of the tracks?

[ninipanini]

Originally Posted by socialisthorde

...condo market downtown... saturted...
... some very expensive condos in Vancouver are a mere steps from the downtown eastside...

I completely agree!

I'd just like to add a couple of things though. First of all people with mental illness are living all around us whether your in Silverspring or Downtown, and why shouldn't they, so don't be so sure your as isolated from "that crap" as you think. Second the stigmatization of people with schizophrenia is not productive. Third, I think a mixed use project like this has the potential to do a lot of good for our city. In many places progressive urban planning intermingling low, middle and high income people has been very successful and helps to "de-ghettoize" neighborhoods. I bet if we used this concept for inner city infill developments we could do a lot on the crime front while creating more vibrant and interesting neighborhoods. Imagine the potential of the Riversdale?!?!

[socialisthorde]

...

[kgc087]

I really feel mixed use projects like the lighthouse will help promote a greatere sense of awareness and understanding regarding people outside of our regular "range" of communication. This will also help boost tolerance in the city. As stated before think of the endless possibilites that could come of this, not to mention the unique neighbourhoods that could be created! I was talking with a friend about some proposed concepts of things and we came to the conclusion that people in Saskatoon are starved. Were starving for something decent, in every city in Canada be it Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Ottawa or Calgary projects are developing that are worthy of those cities and its people. People are pleased with the projects and enjoy them. Unfortunatley in Saskatoon all of the projects are along the concept "get the most bang for your buck" (excluding riverlanding and the lighthouse, Meridian to a degree). No wonder this city lacks the stamina to recruit long time permanent residents, the people that build things here think people are mediocre and will be satisified with mediocre CRAP! What we need are some decent 'world class' night clubs a more diversified shopping scene and well a hell of alot better developers who think for their legacy rather then their pocket. I think once enterpreneurs and developers here realise that people in Saskatoon have the same demands as people in TO or Van then we will see significant changes in this city, until then we will forever be comprimised as "the little city that never could".

[exploration camper]

[QUOTE=shmakim;4015651]But after last post, that reminded me of a proposed plan I heard about moving all the existing rail lines outside the city, and using the previously allocated land for an LRT. Exciting proposal, as the right-of-way and track construction issues would practically vanish. But has anyone considered the usefulness of the existing lay of the tracks?QUOTE]

I actually took a look at it this week and I think that certainly the university, Sutherland, parts of the industrial north end, south east and west side could very easily be serviced with some work. The central east side would be difficult but could continue to be serviced with rapid bus transit. I hate to site something from Ottawa, but give credit where due, the o-train was set up using existing rail line and they showed a reduction in capital costs from about 30 million dollars per mile to 3 million dollars per mile. http://www.tc.gc.ca/programs/Environment/utsp/otrainlightrailproject.htm

I estimated something like 50 million in capital to set up on the existing rail lines in Saskatoon. With all the talk of infrastructure spending might be the right time to start serious consideration of lrt for Saskatoon. Plus we could do something truelly innovative and go with hydrail, using maybe the proposed weir hydroelectric project and the Diefenbaker park wind turbine to produce hydrogen for the trains. Imagine that, a saskatoon lrt that runs off energy from the river and the abundant saskatchewan wind!

[kgc087]

[QUOTE=exploration camper;4015985]

Originally Posted by shmakim

But after last post, that reminded me of a proposed plan I heard about moving all the existing rail lines outside the city, and using the previously allocated land for an LRT. Exciting proposal, as the right-of-way and track construction issues would practically vanish. But has anyone considered the usefulness of the existing lay of the tracks?QUOTE]

I actually took a look at it this week and I think that certainly the university, Sutherland, parts of the industrial north end, south east and west side could very easily be serviced with some work. The central east side would be difficult but could continue to be serviced with rapid bus transit. I hate to site something from Ottawa, but give credit where due, the o-train was set up using existing rail line and they showed a reduction in capital costs from about 30 million dollars per mile to 3 million dollars per mile. http://www.tc.gc.ca/programs/Environment/utsp/otrainlightrailproject.htm

I estimated something like 50 million in capital to set up on the existing rail lines in Saskatoon. With all the talk of infrastructure spending might be the right time to start serious consideration of lrt for Saskatoon. Plus we could do something truelly innovative and go with hydrail, using maybe the proposed weir hydroelectric project and the Diefenbaker park wind turbine to produce hydrogen for the trains. Imagine that, a saskatoon lrt that runs off energy from the river and the abundant saskatchewan wind!

That would be a FANTASTIC! project which would probably be nationally renowned and a demonstration to north america of how to maximize reasources within close proximity to the city! Perhaps someone should shoot council a suggestion letter telling them this may be a prime time to examine/begin lrt planning since the building canada fund is being implemented

[lbird]

I think calling it a homeless shelter is innacurate and more than a little sensationalist. WRT to the location, what is so horrible about a bus mall? As for the drop in centre and probation office, some very expensive condos in Vancouver are a mere steps from the downtown eastside and anything in Saskatoon, including the outpatient addiction drop in and adult probation offices, pales in comparison to the DES. Likewise with the "beltline" in Calgary.

I'll get to your other points below. Vancouver is one of the best urban spaces in North America, with unaffordable housing as a rule. The tradeoffs are a lot different then Saskatoon, where housing is generally affordable and the downtown isn't that big a draw. There's already a glut of downtown condos, but yet people are going to scramble to pick up 32 stories worth of places in a building with a homeless shelter (which *is* in there)?

Some people get all frantic when they think they might have to see or even worse, interact with "criminals" or the mentally ill, but it is rarely as bad as anticipated. I think these fearful people will be securely ensconsed in their suburban fortresses anyway, and are not the market to which downtown condos are appealing. Just for the record, I have two halfway houses within blocks of where I live now and I have noticed absolutely nothing which would suggest to me that they have caused any problems in the neighborhood. There are more problems from roving bands of middle class teenagers in my kids' schoolyard, (damaged trees, non-gang graffitti, broken fences) which located in a "safe" suburban neighborhood than there is in my "inner city" neighborhood.

I think and hope that at least some people in Saskatoon are a little more open minded than you are suggesting them to be.

I have two member of my immediate family that work in public safety positions. They would never live anywhere near the bad areas of town, as they know from personal experience the reality of what happens in those streets. When I first moved to a core neighbourhood, my apartment was right across from a halfway house, during my time there a parolee sexually assaulted two females in basement apartments after breaking through their windows. Five years ago in Riversdale, two female teenage bullies were selling one of their younger classmates to a local pedophile for cigarettes. Does that happen much in these apparently dangerous east side neighbourhoods?

Fact is, criminals tend to commit crimes in their immediate areas, as they have no access to transportation, and they are often high and drunk when they commit crimes, further limiting their mobility. You know what, I agree with you that with enough density downtown, you encourage an active socioeconomic mix. However, what you don't do is put the poverty there first, as that destroys the attraction for the middle and the upper. I work near the proposed Lighthouse area, and many at work are very apprehensive about that facility moving there.

What we should be doing is moving the halfway houses and shelters to the east side so the whole city can share the burden, rather than making downtown an unattractive place to be or pretending that criminals, homeless people and schizophrenics are just average joes.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by lbird

[...]

What we should be doing is moving the halfway houses and shelters to the east side so the whole city can share the burden, rather than making downtown an unattractive place to be or pretending that criminals, homeless people and schizophrenics are just average joes.

Oh...but doesn't the city already distribute halfway houses throughout the city.

I recall a controversy with Egadz purchasing houses in Hampton Village and the immediate neighbors spoke out against it (declining property values was a primary concern ). Anyways, city council asked for a list of all the properties in the city, and questioned whether there was clustering, or a pattern of halfway houses being operated on the west side, and not the east side.

The conclusion arrived at indicated halfway houses were distributed throughout the city, and not concentrated in one particular area of the city.

Personally, I think the Lighthouse project will be a great addition to our downtown. Mixing socio-economic classes will ensure our city and its citizens remain cognizant of the issues affecting our community. To ignore, or avoid such methods of interaction will certainly create a more hostile, and divisive community = not healthy

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by exploration camper

[...]

SASKFTW - That was what I was getting at, if we want a tower than we should at least try and have one taller than the Calgary tower.

[...]

I don't believe we're ready to challenge Calgary on that front just yet, why don't we try and best Toronto (that takes balls, and gobs of $$$).

Maybe if the SkyTower is successful, someone will provide funds to build a more permanent, inspiring version? Doubtful, but, the Calgary Tower was originally built and paid for by Husky Oil (oil buys a lot!).

[socialisthorde]

lbird;

The only part I will agree with is that we need to spread social services around and not concentrate them geographically. Nothing else, particularly the part that they are a "burden". We obviously have very different understandings of the world and it is pointless to argue it out, particularly here. The initial point of discussion was whether or not the lighthouse could be successful and it is equally pointless to argue about that since the die is cast and only time will tell. I just don't like to hear someone running down the place or the philosophy it is base on, before it is even built, since public perception will in part shape whether it is successful or not. I hope that we can all make our judgements based on experience and oour own perceptionfeel rather than labels or hearsay. I guess you have and so have I. Sorry, I pulled the discussion so far away from development.

[molasses]

I keep reading peoples concerns with the Lighthouse and I really have to wonder if you know the history of Lighthouse Supported Living...everyone is aware that it is currently located across from the Galaxy Theatre right? Has there been any major concern about crime etc. there due to the lighthouse?

I walk by it every day, sometimes a few times, but I've never, ever seen anything out of the ordinary and with the thousands of people that have visited the Galaxy, I'm sure if the Lighthouse was a hotbed for criminal activity, something would have happened to make that obvious.

This becomes a bit more ridiculous when you look at the description of the Lighthouse on the Saskatoon Library's website: http://www.saskatoonlibrary.ca/housing/CSCapri.html

Add to this that it is basically going to be two seperate buildings, with completely seperate entrances (on different streets - 4th & 23rd) and no access between the two and I have trouble seeing it standing out amongst downtown condos/apartments in that area as one to be concerned about.

The Lighthouse Supported Living Inc.

Basic Description
The Lighthouse provides comfortable and convenient living in the heart of downtown Saskatoon. It offers affordable housing to seniors, allowing them to live independently while receiving the assistance they need. It also provides employment training, independent living and support for marginalized people in Saskatoon.

The Lighthouse is located in the Central Business District (Downtown) area of Saskatoon, and there is room for 62 people to live there.

Admissions and Costs
Adults who feel they might benefit from the services of The Lighthouse may apply to be residents. Reference checks are made, and applicants are contacted after this stage.

The monthly rate is $820.00.

The rent includes: newly renovated fully furnished room with private full bathroom; three meals a day and an afternoon snack; all utilities including full cable; weekly housekeeping, linen and personal laundry service; 24-hour security personnel; elevator service; air conditioning.

Restrictions
There are no restrictions, but preference would be given to people who would make good use of The Lighthouse's services.

Suites
There are 64 suites in The Lighthouse. Sixty are bachelor-style suites, and four are one-bedroom suites. 34 suites can be adapted for people who use wheelchairs.

Services and Amenities of the Building

Wheelchair friendly building
Elevator service
24-hour security personnel
Activity area
Tenant's lounge
Library service, provided by the Saskatoon Public Library

Three meals a day included in rent
All utilities included (except telephone)
Housekeeping, laundry, linen services
Fully furnished room with private full bathroom
Video monitored public areas
Networking with support agencies
Seventeen bed emergency shelter for men (wheelchair accessible)

[macca]

Ya blah blah blah molasses when are they starting construction.

[prairieguy]

I heard today that there are still rumours that a hotel will be built at the Blairmore location. I remember hearing this would likely be a Remai development...small in scale...hoping to cash in on new Olympic pool complex. Will likely be a 'non-impressive' structure.

What has happened to the proposed hotel by the Stonegate Big Box area? I thought a Sheraton was supposed to be going up there and that work had already started last Spring? Has this one gone bust?

I know January is not the ideal time for new construction, but I am sure anxious to see some action on all of the "proposed" projects on the books for Saskatoon (River Landing, Lighthouse, Rivergreen ecovillage, etc.)

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by prairieguy

I heard today that there are still rumours that a hotel will be built at the Blairmore location. I remember hearing this would likely be a Remai development...small in scale...hoping to cash in on new Olympic pool complex. Will likely be a 'non-impressive' structure.

What has happened to the proposed hotel by the Stonegate Big Box area? I thought a Sheraton was supposed to be going up there and that work had already started last Spring? Has this one gone bust?

I know January is not the ideal time for new construction, but I am sure anxious to see some action on all of the "proposed" projects on the books for Saskatoon (River Landing, Lighthouse, Rivergreen ecovillage, etc.)

A few nights ago I drove by Stonegate and saw a 3-4 storey structure (steel girders) being erected. It could be the Sheraton hotel, but it could also be another office building, I only saw it from a distance...

[exploration camper]

I don't believe we're ready to challenge Calgary on that front just yet, why don't we try and best Toronto (that takes balls, and gobs of $$$).

That's my point if you want to enter the world of tower building you better do it with some balls, otherwise you just look stupid.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by exploration camper

That's my point if you want to enter the world of tower building you better do it with some balls, otherwise you just look stupid.

Nah, if we were a bigger city, then yes, it would look stupid (we won't have 50 storey+ towers for some time).

Erecting an observation is an attempt to become recognized as a big city. Of course, the only people who genuinely care about such distinctions are those who reside in said city (e.g. Saskatonians). An observation tower of respectable height (for our city, anything over 100 meters is out of this world) would be an ego booster on many levels...could lead to other opportunities ...perhaps a large ferris wheel.

[ninipanini]

All I can say is that if they do build an observation tower it MUST be kept tasteful; something more along the lines of the Calgary or CN tower. The "rotating gondala" sounds exactly like something they have at the Minnesota State Fair, lets leave carnival rides for the Exhibition grounds. Even if a rotating "theme park style" tower does provide some kind of "ego boost" in Saskatoon, let's be serious, it would be a laughing stock everywhere else TACKY

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by ninipanini

All I can say is that if they do build an observation tower it MUST be kept tasteful; something more along the lines of the Calgary or CN tower. The "rotating gondala" sounds exactly like something they have at the Minnesota State Fair, lets leave carnival rides for the Exhibition grounds. Even if a rotating "theme park style" tower does provide some kind of "ego boost" in Saskatoon, let's be serious, it would be a laughing stock everywhere else TACKY

That'd be wonderful...but under current circumstances, not probable.

As a small city, a "carnival ride" observation tower is a realistically affordable alternative.

A Calgary Tower, or CN Tower would require hundreds of millions of dollars to construct...as opposed to 5-10 million for a "carnival ride" observation tower.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of having tasteful structures constructed in Saskatoon, but, in this case, I'm willing to let form take a back seat to function. I'm uncertain about the possibility of dressing up, or altering the carnival ride tower to look more like a CN Tower. Although, in the context of Saskatoon, the SkyTower would provide a similar relationship between itself and the rest of downtown/the city as it rises far above the entirety of the city...all we would need is a skydome and maybe one super tall and we could become Toronto of The West...kidding...or am I


Source


Credit: CtrlAltDel (Original photo by: Tom™5
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtheman5/3087105861/ )


Credit: Credit: CtrlAltDel (edited by SASKFTW)

[ninipanini]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

That'd be wonderful...but under current circumstances, not probable.

I definitely agree that we aren't going to get a CN or Calgary tower any time soon; honestly it would probably be a waste of money at this point to spend as much that would cost... What I was getting at is that if we aren't going to get a classy looking tower we should just forget about it. Isn't it better to have nothing at all rather than an eyesore? How long do you think it will take to gett rid of it are once people are sick of it?