Alto High Speed Rail

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

1) They don’t have a route, not even a rough one. The fact that everyone was talking about Peterborough until a few weeks ago and now they are talking about Kingston confirms this. Greenfield rail projects, anywhere in the Western world take many years AFTER a route is finalized.

2). Is there any evidence the Feds are willing to sweep away barriers? There isn’t even an implementation bill or regulatory body yet. Carney has given no indication he is willing to play hardball with indigenous groups. He has given no indication he is willing to streamline environmental assessments or waive the requirement for one. We are in a legal system where courts are blocking Waterloo Region (for 4 years) from building a new train station on land it owns because there is a homeless camp there.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...residents-kitchener-encampment-9.7208419

They literally published a study corridor. And opponents have been mapping their survey requests which makes it clear they do have a route. They've been making city councils sign NDAs, not to disclose said route. You not knowing about the route doesn't mean they don't have one. Is the political interference troubling? Absolutely. Doesn't mean they don't have a route.

As for regulatory change. There's already one piece of legislation in the works. And there's plenty of time for more.

But let's be honest here. You're seeing what you want to see, which is failure. Not surprising for someone that has not seen value in the idea ever. At this point, is there any infrastructure you actually support building? Serious question. Cause I've only seen you bitch and moan about everything.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They literally published a study corridor. And opponents have been mapping their survey requests which makes it clear they do have a route. They've been making city councils sign NDAs, not to disclose said route. You not knowing about the route doesn't mean they don't have one. Is the political interference troubling? Absolutely. Doesn't mean they don't have a route.

As for regulatory change. There's already one piece of legislation in the works. And there's plenty of time for more.

But let's be honest here. You're seeing what you want to see, which is failure. Not surprising for someone that has not seen value in the idea ever. At this point, is there any infrastructure you actually support building? Serious question. Cause I've only seen you bitch and moan about everything.

I think you are so desperate for this project to occur in a certain timeframe that you’re disregarding obvious signs the government is not nearly as serious about that timeframe as you are, or not willing to take the steps to get it in your preferred timeline.

A study corridor is not a route. A study corridor is what you do when you’re trying to find a route. The surveys, etc are not in a line, they are in a general area. Whether it is political interference or not the Ontario segment has been significantly rerouted in the last few weeks, which means they need another study corridor to look for another route.

“One piece of legislation in the works” is extremely vague and could mean just about anything.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think you are so desperate for this project to occur in a certain timeframe that you’re disregarding obvious signs the government is not nearly as serious about that timeframe as you are, or not willing to take the steps to get it in your preferred timeline.

A study corridor is not a route. A study corridor is what you do when you’re trying to find a route. The surveys, etc are not in a line, they are in a general area. Whether it is political interference or not the Ontario segment has been significantly rerouted in the last few weeks, which means they need another study corridor to look for another route.

“One piece of legislation in the works” is extremely vague and could mean just about anything.

Desperate? LOL. No.

This thing will take 15 years. I don't even know if I'll be living anywhere near this in 15 years. So no, not desperate.

Excited to see this country actually build proper infrastructure? Absolutely. Some of us can see past immediate self-interest.

I am calling you out. Because I am sick of your political bias hiding behind some bullshit fake skepticism.

We get it. You don't like the party in power. And you don't think this should be built (sneaky how you've stopped broadcasting your disdain for HSR more recently). Ergo, you see failure at every turn. You think people can't go back and see your post history on this topic? You were right years ago on the lack of progress. I agreed with you then. But it's bizarre to imagine this to be true today when they are months away from starting land assembly and putting out specific RFEOIs (which would let them build their Limited Tender List) on Montreal-Ottawa. Apparently, that's something you do when you don't have a route.....



There isn't a project of this magnitude anywhere in a democracy that goes off without any twists and turns. But this one seems to be doing better than the average Anglosphere (notoriously incompetent) megaproject so far.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Desperate? LOL. No.

This thing will take 15 years. I don't even know if I'll be living anywhere near this in 15 years. So no, not desperate.

Excited to see this country actually build proper infrastructure? Absolutely. Some of us can see past immediate self-interest.

I am calling you out. Because I am sick of your political bias hiding behind some bullshit fake skepticism.

We get it. You don't like the party in power. And you don't think this should be built (sneaky how you've stopped broadcasting your disdain for HSR more recently). Ergo, you see failure at every turn. You think people can't go back and see your post history on this topic? You were right years ago on the lack of progress. I agreed with you then. But it's bizarre to imagine this to be true today when they are months away from starting land assembly and putting out specific RFEOIs (which would let them build their Limited Tender List) on Montreal-Ottawa. Apparently, that's something you do when you don't have a route.....



There isn't a project of this magnitude anywhere in a democracy that goes off without any twists and turns. But this one seems to be doing better than the average Anglosphere (notoriously incompetent) megaproject so far.

I have never broadcasted my disdain for HSR. I strongly objected to the vapourware scam that was HFR (for which you were the number one Stan for years). I noted that all of there estimates were outright lies and that any project that met the stated goals would cost as much as HSR (a conclusion the Government eventually reached after pissing around for nearly a decade). Since this HSR project came along I have been critical about the lack of public information, the lack of realistic timelines, and the lack of progress on ancillary work to actually get the project off the ground. This project seems to be driven by Finance Bros who know how to put out very optimistic timelines and corporate jargon but don’t seem to actually know how to build a railway. The Finance Bros might be useful at some point to create some complicated financial instrument that doesn’t look like a mountain of debt, but for now they are not going much to advance the cause of putting a shovel in the ground.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I have never broadcasted my disdain for HSR. I strongly objected to the vapourware scam that was HFR (for which you were the number one Stan for years). I noted that all of there estimates were outright lies and that any project that met the stated goals would cost as much as HSR (a conclusion the Government eventually reached after pissing around for nearly a decade). Since this HSR project came along I have been critical about the lack of public information, the lack of realistic timelines, and the lack of progress on ancillary work to actually get the project off the ground. This project seems to be driven by Finance Bros who know how to put out very optimistic timelines and corporate jargon but don’t seem to actually know how to build a railway. The Finance Bros might be useful at some point to create some complicated financial instrument that doesn’t look like a mountain of debt, but for now they are not going much to advance the cause of putting a shovel in the ground.

The Finance Bros aren't building a railway. You seem to be intentionally obtuse on how development contracts work. Again, driven by bias.

I am not sold on the value of the CIB. I think they failed on their primary purpose of mobilizing institutional capital. But I fail to see any evidence of how that is slowing down the construction process when Cadence is proceeding apace with Alto on their Design phase contract. This is again more on intercity rail development than has been accomplished in at least half a century in the country. And yet here you are, pretending it's inconsequential.

Oh. And attacking someone for being enthusiastic about building infrastructure on an infrastructure forum. Quite the take. Why are you on this forum again?

[rocketphish]

Kingston probably getting high-speed rail stop, says Alto CEO
Martin Imbleau tells CBC News public feedback was persuasive

CBC News
Posted: Jul 22, 2026 8:34 AM EDT | Last Updated: 1 hour ago

The CEO of the Crown corporation planning a high-speed rail link between Toronto and Quebec City says Kingston, Ont., will probably get a stop because the public is asking for it.

"It's doable, the ridership is very strong because it's a large community, it seems to be making a lot of sense," Martin Imbleau told CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning on Wednesday.

He said most Alto trains would pass through Kingston, Laval and Trois-Rivières without stopping, enabling faster express service between larger cities.

Transport Minister Steven MacKinnon said last month his office is "going to take a very, very, long, strong and positive look" at the possibility of including Kingston in Canada's first high-speed rail route.

MacKinnon said Kingston is the fourth-busiest Via Rail station in the country. He said an Alto stop there would be widely used by students at Queen's University.

"Business-wise, we've looked at the comments we received and it's kind of persuasive that a stop in Kingston would make sense," Imbleau said Wednesday.

Prime Minister Mark Carney has said he wants to start building the line in four years. The proposed Toronto-Quebec City line was announced late last year with planned stops in Trois-Rivières, Laval, Montreal, Ottawa and Peterborough.

Alto plans to release the specific route between Montreal and Ottawa for public feedback this fall. Imbleau also said there could also be changes around Montreal's northwestern Mirabel suburb because of feedback from local farmers.

The stretch between Toronto and Ottawa, which would include Kingston, would come next, followed by the final piece to Quebec City.

Asked about the possibility of yet another Alto stop in Smiths Falls, south of Ottawa, Imbleau said Via Rail remains an option for those smaller communities.

"We cannot stop in all the communities. It needs to make sense, it needs to be fast, it needs to be economical."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/alto-high-speed-rail-kingston-ontario-stop-9.7279098

[urbanforest]

Originally Posted by acottawa

“One piece of legislation in the works” is extremely vague and could mean just about anything.

They've already legislated new powers for Alto to expedite land acquisitions through C-15, among other measures related to the project.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by urbanforest

They've already legislated new powers for Alto to expedite land acquisitions through C-15, among other measures related to the project.

But it doesn’t give any other powers to any organization to do any of the other work necessary. There is no power to access provincial, municipal, indigenous or private land for the purpose of surveys, geological testing, building access roads, etc. This this is a key power almost any builder of transportation infrastructure has (the MTO in Ontario, for example). There is no dispute settlement mechanism other than courts of general jurisdiction, so any objection anyone has is going to get tied up in the court system for years (the Kitchener train station is an example of how easy it is to do this). As far as I can tell (although it may be elsewhere) there is no waiver of the requirement for an environmental assessment or a simplified procedure for such an assessment. This delays infrastructure projects by years.