Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by savevp

The CHL is a great example where the Mem Cup is effectively a Champions League.

It's more difficult in the NHL where you're arguably starting to degrade the talent pool with many more clubs. And you don't have the global pipeline of soccer where you can have a compelling champions league format; the NHL will probably win every time.

Are people that concerned about the talent pool, though? No one seems to mind that 11 teams worth of players that would have been in the AHL in 1989 are now at the NHL level thanks to all the teams that have been added since then.

If there had been no expansion starting in 91-92, a good number of bottom-six and third-pairing players would be in the AHL right now. The NHL, AHL and ECHL are all a lot bigger than they were 35 years ago... there are a hell of a lot more roster spots for hockey players than there once were.

[WhipperSnapper]

Canada continues to do extremely well in international meets while the percentage of Canadian NHL players have gone from over 80% in the 1980s to under 50%. Clearly the global talent pool has kept up with the growth in number of teams

[esquire]

^ The NHL from 1960 to 1990 was a quantum leap where it went from a mostly Canadian league with some American players to a relatively global one with many European players and a lot more Americans. But I don't think a whole lot changed in the next 30 years from 1990-2020 in terms of adding new sources of players.

I guess we are seeing more players coming from warmer US states, which is a natural consequence of more hockey teams down there. Although a striking number of players from those sunbelt states have a connection to Canada/northern US states in that many are sons of former pro players who ended up in AZ/CA or wherever.

If you scratch a pro hockey player from the sunbelt you are more likely to find out their grandparents lived in Prince Albert as opposed to, say, Oaxaca.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The NHL from 1960 to 1990 was a quantum leap where it went from a mostly Canadian league with some American players to a relatively global one with many European players and a lot more Americans. But I don't think a whole lot changed in the next 30 years from 1990-2020 in terms of adding new sources of players.

Same sources, just more of them. The sport of hockey in general hasn't tangibly increased in very many areas outside of NA and EU, although there are tiny pockets here and there. The NHL will be visiting Australia soon for games, after all.

I guess we are seeing more players coming from warmer US states, which is a natural consequence of more hockey teams down there. Although a striking number of players from those sunbelt states have a connection to Canada/northern US states in that many are sons of former pro players who ended up in AZ/CA or wherever.

There are just as many from non-hockey backgrounds as those who are sons of former pros. Nepotism in hockey, and sports in general, is incredibly common, but it also makes sense that many sons of former players would also make it pro based on just general finances, livelihood, and expectation.

Originally Posted by esquire

If you scratch a pro hockey player from the sunbelt you are more likely to find out their grandparents lived in Prince Albert as opposed to, say, Oaxaca.

Or, in the case of someone like Auston Matthews, not this. Jason and Nick Robertson, Jason Zucker, Thatcher Demko, Shayne Gostisbehere...

There'll be more from non-NHL fathers in the future, given how hockey in the south has developed in the past ten years. These things take decades to sort out.

[Coldrsx]

BURNCO Rock Products Ltd
6,916 followers
2w •

Once upon a SKYLINE!

Today we’re throwing it back to 1983, when we had the pleasure of supply ready mix for Calgary’s iconic Scotiabank Saddledome.

The Sadeldome officially opened to a sold out Reba McEntire concert on October 15th, 1983.

https://www.linkedin.com/company/bur...5HP47ZIA%3D%3D

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by JHikka

There's always Atlanta: Round 3.

ESPN reporter John Buccigross just posted on Twitter that Atlanta is maybe back on the radar, along with Houston for a new expansion. The new team would potentially be based out of the Alpharetta neighbourhood, half an hour away from downtown Atlanta, and supposedly has a very large potential ownership group that wants to make it happen. This was also confirmed by another NHL insider source.

These are the two biggest markets in the US with no team. Based on the earlier rumour about Austin, Houston, and Toronto2, it looks like Atlanta is that fourth piece in the run up to 36 teams. Definitely stings about Quebec City, but the reality is that our dollar sucks and our cities are generally not as rich or as lucrative for media contracts as US cities.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

ESPN reporter John Buccigross just posted on Twitter that Atlanta is maybe back on the radar

Are you f*!^king kidding me? Someone from Quebec needs to take this mumpsimus Bettman out for good.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by savevp

Are you f*!^king kidding me? Someone from Quebec needs to take this mumpsimus Bettman out for good.

I hate to say it, but Quebec is not getting an NHL team unless a miracle happens or Quebec City changes. The NHL likes money and marketability, and Quebec City is not where the league will get that. It’s hard to compare an isolated metro of 840,000 people with Atlanta (around 6,145,000) and Houston (around 7,207,000), which are 7.5 and 9 times its size, respectively.

The reality is that right now, the exchange rate is trash, Quebec City is income-poor in comparison to many other cities across Canada, let alone the United States, and its media market is more limited. The league is interested in producing new mid-to-high income teams, like what was done in Vegas and Seattle. The closest comparison to Quebec City, Winnipeg, is a relatively low-income team.

[Denscity]

Sounds like BC Place is basically sold out for the international Rugby 7s. Cool led flag images on the side of the stadium.

[MalcolmTucker]

Alpharetta? Glendale 2.0. BRT up the highway to development sites is only running ten years behind the schedule announced 10 years ago.

[Djeffery]

Bringing a team to Atlanta is probably the quickest way to get Canada's 8th team. 2 out of 7 so far, might as well be 3 out of 8 in the early 2030's.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Alpharetta? Glendale 2.0. BRT up the highway to development sites is only running ten years behind the schedule announced 10 years ago.

That is really stupid. Have they learned nothing? At this rate, might as well have NHL teams in junior hockey arenas and just live off the tv deals and add revenues.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Bringing a team to Atlanta is probably the quickest way to get Canada's 8th team. 2 out of 7 so far, might as well be 3 out of 8 in the early 2030's.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

ESPN reporter John Buccigross just posted on Twitter that Atlanta is maybe back on the radar, along with Houston for a new expansion. The new team would potentially be based out of the Alpharetta neighbourhood, half an hour away from downtown Atlanta, and supposedly has a very large potential ownership group that wants to make it happen. This was also confirmed by another NHL insider source.

I'm not sure what to make of NHL insiders leaking and playing coy with expansion news. Seems like test balloons to see how people react. Is Alpharetta anywhere near where Gwinnett used to play? I seem to recall an ECHL or AHL team in Georgia that did fine for a number of years.

Originally Posted by ericmacm

These are the two biggest markets in the US with no team. Based on the earlier rumour about Austin, Houston, and Toronto2, it looks like Atlanta is that fourth piece in the run up to 36 teams. Definitely stings about Quebec City, but the reality is that our dollar sucks and our cities are generally not as rich or as lucrative for media contracts as US cities.

Market is simply tapped out from a revenue perspective, particularly if we are to consider whether or not Rogers (or anyone else) will pay more for the next TV contract if there is another team. If it's up to Canada's media conglomerates I can imagine which market they would choose between a second GTA team or Quebec City, the issues with the latter market (as you've pointed out) notwithstanding.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

BURNCO Rock Products Ltd
6,916 followers
2w •

Once upon a SKYLINE!

Today we’re throwing it back to 1983, when we had the pleasure of supply ready mix for Calgary’s iconic Scotiabank Saddledome.

The Sadeldome officially opened to a sold out Reba McEntire concert on October 15th, 1983.

https://www.linkedin.com/company/bur...5HP47ZIA%3D%3D

The Dome is as old as I am!

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm not sure what to make of NHL insiders leaking and playing coy with expansion news. Seems like test balloons to see how people react. Is Alpharetta anywhere near where Gwinnett used to play? I seem to recall an ECHL or AHL team in Georgia that did fine for a number of years.

Market is simply tapped out from a revenue perspective, particularly if we are to consider whether or not Rogers (or anyone else) will pay more for the next TV contract if there is another team. If it's up to Canada's media conglomerates I can imagine which market they would choose between a second GTA team or Quebec City, the issues with the latter market (as you've pointed out) notwithstanding.

There has been more leakage from other sports insiders about Atlanta/Houston over the past few days. I do suspect that it might be a way to gauge interest. The narrative mainly seems to have shifted toward “interested ownership groups and interested NHL” but no guarantee that anything will happen soon. FWIW, after Seattle was awarded in 2018, the NHL expressed that they didn’t want to expand again for 4-5 years, so a genuine expansion attempt is definitely plausible at this point.

The Atlanta ECHL team plays in Duluth, near Alpharetta. There doesn’t seem to be anything arena-related in Alpharetta so I would suspect it would be a complete new build of some kind of “arena district” off the highway like what the Braves did a few years ago. I do find it bizarre that the main goal wouldn’t be having this new team play in State Farm Arena downtown, but I think they maybe don’t want this initiative to have anything to do with where the Thrashers or Flames used to play (maybe to avoid bad luck lol).

Houston at least seems more cut and dry with Tillman Fertitta previously expressing interest in owning a franchise that would play at the Toyota Center.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Market is simply tapped out from a revenue perspective, particularly if we are to consider whether or not Rogers (or anyone else) will pay more for the next TV contract if there is another team. If it's up to Canada's media conglomerates I can imagine which market they would choose between a second GTA team or Quebec City, the issues with the latter market (as you've pointed out) notwithstanding.

Hard to believe that the Canadian market is tapped out for the NHL.

Here is an article that refers to a poll about which sports Canadians follow. It focuses on Quebec but has some info on other provinces.

8% of Quebecers closely follow the NHL, and another 20% follow it sporadically. 72% of Quebecers follow the NHL very little or not at all.

They just hint at them but I doubt the numbers are significantly higher in the other provinces.

https://www.985fm.ca/nouvelles/54104...-professionnel

So it's probably truer that the NHL could be said to be leaving money on the table in Canada, since it used to have this market all sewn up and now interest in its product is on the wane.

There is no reason why the NHL couldn't occupy a similar place in Canada to the NFL's in the US. (In fact, things used to be that way, just a couple of generations ago.)

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

There has been more leakage from other sports insiders about Atlanta/Houston over the past few days. I do suspect that it might be a way to gauge interest. The narrative mainly seems to have shifted toward “interested ownership groups and interested NHL” but no guarantee that anything will happen soon. FWIW, after Seattle was awarded in 2018, the NHL expressed that they didn’t want to expand again for 4-5 years, so a genuine expansion attempt is definitely plausible at this point.

The Atlanta ECHL team plays in Duluth, near Alpharetta. There doesn’t seem to be anything arena-related in Alpharetta so I would suspect it would be a complete new build of some kind of “arena district” off the highway like what the Braves did a few years ago. I do find it bizarre that the main goal wouldn’t be having this new team play in State Farm Arena downtown, but I think they maybe don’t want this initiative to have anything to do with where the Thrashers or Flames used to play (maybe to avoid bad luck lol).

Houston at least seems more cut and dry with Tillman Fertitta previously expressing interest in owning a franchise that would play at the Toyota Center.

NHL
After Fertitta bought the Rockets and Toyota Center in 2017, he expressed interest in an expansion team or relocating an NHL team to Houston, with both options most likely playing at Toyota Center. In 2018, he held preliminary talks with commissioner Gary Bettman to discuss ownership of a team. While he hasn't stated much about potential ownership in recent months, it is speculated he may be working on a deal to purchase the Arizona Coyotes, though this hasn't been confirmed or denied by him.

This was on Wikipedia about him and the NHL. It is Wiki so who knows how legit this is.

[someone123]

Not sure if this one has been posted yet or not:

Originally Posted by bluenoser

Halifax Mayor Mulls Wanderers Grounds As Home For CFL Team https://huddle.today/2023/02/16/hali...-for-cfl-team/

My interpretation is that this is the no-brainer scenario which should or likely will eventually happen, particularly now that the city is growing faster. In fact it doesn't require the CFL at all; there's plenty of demand for a basic outdoor venue with permanent facilities that holds 20,000 people. And if Halifax ends up with that I doubt the CFL would refuse to set up a team there (which IMO isn't a big deal either way). I think the private ownership group and mixed development Shannon Park $200-300M stadium stuff might have detracted from this more realistic plan.

[esquire]

A new shared stadium in Halifax seems like a much safer bet with the Wanderers around. But while the location is good, personally I find the current site to be way too cramped for a CFL team. I think you could comfortably expand it up to about 10,000 seats for the CanPL, but I think that's realistically about as far as you can go there.

[thurmas]

If you are Halifax you want a piece of land big enough to host a Grey Cup Wanderer ground is too small and short term band aid thinking. League doesn't need another team with Argos type attendance losing 10 million bucks a year.