Kìwekì Point (formerly Nepean Point) Redevelopment [NCC]

[rocketphish]

Nice shot. It looks like something just landed from outer space. I guess they're going to pour concrete over that roof projection?

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Nice shot. It looks like something just landed from outer space. I guess they're going to pour concrete over that roof projection?

It makes me sad that the UFO was literally a frame for the Champlain statue and now it just a 'UFO without a cause'. If it's no longer PC to have a statue celebrating our country's European history so prominently here, then I would be totally satisfied with a statue celebrating our area's indigenous history here. Missed opportunity.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Harley613

It makes me sad that the UFO was literally a frame for the Champlain statue and now it just a 'UFO without a cause'. If it's no longer PC to have a statue celebrating our country's European history so prominently here, then I would be totally satisfied with a statue celebrating our area's indigenous history here. Missed opportunity.

I doubt there could be agreement on a suitable statue for the location, which may be for the best. When committees are created with all kinds of conditions and stipulations of what can't be put up, we will likely end up with something mediocre.

I have hard time figuring out what really meaningful indigenous monument would be suitable for this location. Ideas?

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I doubt there could be agreement on a suitable statue for the location, which may be for the best. When committees are created with all kinds of conditions and stipulations of what can't be put up, we will likely end up with something mediocre.

I have hard time figuring out what really meaningful indigenous monument would be suitable for this location. Ideas?

I'm thinking...maybe flat black metal silhouettes or representative statues of the actual 'Traders', the 'Odawa' people who traded on this land and gave it it's namesake?

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I love how you are literally BANG ON the line of Class F airspace here. Ballsy shot, but totally legal with a sub-250 gram drone!

CYR537 over Parliament Hill will be modified as follows:

CYR537 PARLIAMENT HILL, ON

The airspace within the area bounded by a circle of:
0.4 mile radius centred on N45°25'29.05" W075°41'56.74"

Designated Altitude – Surface to 3000'
Time of Designation – Cont
User/Controlling Agency – RCMP [email protected] or (613) 952-4200
Operating Procedures – No person shall operate an aircraft, including model aircraft, within the area described unless the flight has been authorized by the User/Controlling Agency, except for medical, police and military aircraft on official duty flights and IFR flights.

I tried. The app didn't let me into the zone so that's as far as I could get.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Nice shot. It looks like something just landed from outer space. I guess they're going to pour concrete over that roof projection?

[lrt's friend]

So, is the Champlain monument being mothballed as being politically incorrect?

[kwoldtimer]

It's going elsewhere in the park, no?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It's going elsewhere in the park, no?

Yes, it will be relocated.






https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/nepean-point-sculptures-ncc-board-1.6411829

[Richard Eade]

Looks like the Moderators are going to have to change the name of this thread.

NCC changes the name of Nepean Point to Kiweki Point.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-nepean-kiweki-point-name-algonquin-meaning-1.6605549

[zzptichka]

Good name. But what a great example of useless NCC bureaucracy.

They held multiple meetings with dozens of people over many months, including NCC board meeting, wasted weeks of man-hours and piles of paper just to pick a name to PROPOSE to the stakeholders.

Incredible.

Imagine if they actually spent these resources to make NCR better.

[originalmuffins]

You gotta be shitting me...........................they didn't need that much to rename it lol

[OTSkyline]

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive but I don't see the need to rename (or name everything new in the city) something Algonquin. I understand the past and the history of the region but simply just giving everything an Algonquin name doesn't necessarily change the past or undo what was done.

Unless I'm wrong, this also seems to be something much more prominent in Ottawa. I don't recall seeing parks, roads and plazas in Montreal or Toronto renamed in these aboriginal names. Maybe because of the government and Ottawa's culture of being ultra-reserved, police and trying to be politically correct...

[OTownandDown]

What is the status of the land in Montreal/Toronto? Maybe it's because basically all of the land in Ottawa is unceded?

Also, being the home of federal politicians trying to set an example?

Also, on the point of all the meetings and discussions, if the NCC doesn't do this kind of giant bureaucracy money dump for each and every decision, ol' Debbie the NIMBY Queen from Westboro and Fred the NIMBY King from the Glebe gets their t*ts in a knot about not being consulted. They need a nice, private space to yell at somebody. And what better private space than a public consultation on something (otherwise they go to the CBC)

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive but I don't see the need to rename (or name everything new in the city) something Algonquin. I understand the past and the history of the region but simply just giving everything an Algonquin name doesn't necessarily change the past or undo what was done.

Unless I'm wrong, this also seems to be something much more prominent in Ottawa. I don't recall seeing parks, roads and plazas in Montreal or Toronto renamed in these aboriginal names. Maybe because of the government and Ottawa's culture of being ultra-reserved, police and trying to be politically correct...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

What is the status of the land in Montreal/Toronto? Maybe it's because basically all of the land in Ottawa is unceded?

Also, being the home of federal politicians trying to set an example?

Also, on the point of all the meetings and discussions, if the NCC doesn't do this kind of giant bureaucracy money dump for each and every decision, ol' Debbie the NIMBY Queen from Westboro and Fred the NIMBY King from the Glebe gets their t*ts in a knot about not being consulted. They need a nice, private space to yell at somebody. And what better private space than a public consultation on something (otherwise they go to the CBC)

I made a similar point on the NCC thread, but I wonder if they are just picking random Algonquin words. It would be like honouring the francophone community by calling it pointe de lapin or something like that.

AFAIK the Algonquin people had a river-based economy and either built settlements along the rivers or migrated along the rivers. The top of a cliff would have been of limited value and probably was not a place that held any significance.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe they excavated Algonquin artifacts as part of the construction that showed it was the site of a settlement or had some other purpose. If that is the case it would be nice if they would pick a name related to the actual indigenous use rather than having non-indigenous people randomly picking words.

[daud]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

What is the status of the land in Montreal/Toronto? Maybe it's because basically all of the land in Ottawa is unceded?

Also, being the home of federal politicians trying to set an example?

Also, on the point of all the meetings and discussions, if the NCC doesn't do this kind of giant bureaucracy money dump for each and every decision, ol' Debbie the NIMBY Queen from Westboro and Fred the NIMBY King from the Glebe gets their t*ts in a knot about not being consulted. They need a nice, private space to yell at somebody. And what better private space than a public consultation on something (otherwise they go to the CBC)

I believe that lands in Toronto were addressed in Treaty 13 with the Mississaugas. Montreal is a bit more obscure because it was home to Iroquois, Mohawk, Nipissing and Algonquin (all of whom also passed through Ottawa-the Nipissing especially had a cultural and language bond with the algonquin and intermarried extensively). Acknowledgements in Montreal usually state unceded Mohawk territory.

I'm not against the redevelopment of Nepean point or the renaming personally. But i used to go up there and the amphitheater was beautiful. It needed a serious makeover but beyond that the only thing that spot needed in my opinion is programming and visitors.

[RuralCitizen]

This might not be a popular opinion but

"Let's erase every trace of the past and pretend it never happened!" (sarcasm)

It isn't because you remove the name of first settlers that you will change history. Worse, people will forget that bad things happened. Even if we don't like the idea of colonialism, it is still part of our history. It is part of what made Canada become what it is today. I'm not saying we should celebrate it, but we should keep these monuments and things named after historical figures as a reminder of where we come from. And we can't hold people from the past accountable for today's moral values.

Why don't we name new things with aboriginal names instead of renaming existing things?

They could have just called it "The Kiweki lookout, located on the Nepean point".


On another topic, I know the statue will be be relocated (which is a shame in my opinion), what happens with the lines in Major Hill Park? These lines seemed to point to the statue, now they are pointless?

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Unless I'm wrong, this also seems to be something much more prominent in Ottawa. I don't recall seeing parks, roads and plazas in Montreal or Toronto renamed in these aboriginal names. Maybe because of the government and Ottawa's culture of being ultra-reserved, police and trying to be politically correct...

I don't know about Montreal, but there has been some high profile renaming/calls for renaming in Toronto. Ryerson University now being called Toronto Metropolitan University is a prominent one. There have long been calls to rename everything with Dundas in it due to his contribution to delay in the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade, but it would be really expensive to do that.

I think a main difference for this appearing to be more prominent in Ottawa is that, as it's the capital, there are just a lot of things named after problematic men, particularly British Lords and Prime Ministers. This seems to be much less common in Toronto. Most Toronto parks/landmarks are either really innocuous, named after places in the U.K. or named after more modern figures: eg. High Park, Trinity Bellwoods, Riverdale Park, Humber Bay, Kensington Market, Mel Lastman Square, Marilyn Bell Park, Jack Layton Ferry Terminal,

[RuralCitizen]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I don't know about Montreal, but there has been some high profile renaming/calls for renaming in Toronto. Ryerson University now being called Toronto Metropolitan University is a prominent one. There have long been calls to rename everything with Dundas in it due to his contribution to delay in the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade.

I think a main difference for this appearing to be more prominent in Ottawa is that, as it's the capital, there are just a lot of things named after problematic men, particularly British Lords and Prime Ministers. This seems to be much less common in Toronto. Most Toronto parks/landmarks are either really innocuous, named after places in the U.K. or named after more modern figures: eg. High Park, Trinity Bellwoods, Riverdale Park, Humber Bay, Kensington Market, Mel Lastman Square, Marilyn Bell Park, Jack Layton Ferry Terminal,

"Problematic men" in our time. 50-100 years from now, things you do right now that you think are perfectly fine might be considered completely bad and would get you cancelled.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by RuralCitizen

This might not be a popular opinion but

"Let's erase every trace of the past and pretend it never happened!" (sarcasm)

It isn't because you remove the name of first settlers that you will change history. Worse, people will forget that bad things happened. Even if we don't like the idea of colonialism, it is still part of our history. It is part of what made Canada become what it is today. I'm not saying we should celebrate it, but we should keep these monuments and things named after historical figures as a reminder of where we come from. And we can't hold people from the past accountable for today's moral values.

Why don't we name new things with aboriginal names instead of renaming existing things?

They could have just called it "The Kiweki lookout, located on the Nepean point".

The thing is, Nepean Point was named after some guy who has never even been to Canada and has no connections with Ottawa to begin with. The guy died before Bytown was even founded.

He served in different secretary positions in the Admiralty 200 years ago (what does it have to do with Ottawa?) and as a governor of Bombay (huh?).