Quality of Canadian urbanism

[ue]

If you've just hit this page and wondered if I responded to you, there's some replies at the tail end of the previous page!

Originally Posted by Harrison

Perhaps surprisingly, the decision for the CPR to take the Kicking Horse Pass in the late 1800s over Yellowhead Pass caused Calgary to boom much earlier than Edmonton, which, at least in my opinion, lead to it having a more considerable stock of historic buildings than Edmonton.

For example, in 1891 Calgary had 3,876 where Edmonton only had 700 in 1892. By 1911, Calgary had 43,704 and Edmonton nearly half that at 24,900. It wasn't until the mid 1930s where the two cities drew nearly equal in population, with Edmonton surpassing Calgary from 1936 to 1975, where Calgary recaptured the title as Alberta's largest city. This growth trend is why Edmonton likely has a greater stock of mid-century modern architecture than Calgary, whereas Calgary has a greater stock of Edwardian and earlier buildings.

To be fair, Edmonton's numbers until 1912 would have been smaller due to Strathcona and North Edmonton not being within the city limits.

In 1901, the City of Edmonton had 2,626 inhabitants. Strathcona had 1,550 inhabitants. Together, that's 4,176. By comparison, in 1901, Calgary had 4,091 people. Pretty much the same size.

In 1911, the City of Edmonton had 24,900, while Strathcona had 5,579, and North Edmonton had 404. Altogether that's 30,883. Calgary had 43,704. At this point Calgary was about 25% larger than Edmonton, but not an enormous gap. In the early 1920s, after the 1914 bust, Calgary continued to have about ~10,000 more people than Edmonton, although Edmonton's population had shrunk from a 1914 peak of 74,000 at the time (I'm not sure if Calgary's population similarly shrunk).

In 1926, both cities had about 65,000 people (rounding to the nearest thousandth). By 1931, Edmonton had 79,197 people and Calgary 83,761. Very close again. Then Edmonton overtook Calgary until the early 00s (if we're counting metropolitan areas), when Calgary once again became the larger of the two.

I do agree that Calgary had an earlier start. The CPR arrived 6 years before the C&E railway (and later the Grand Trunk/CN line). Fort Edmonton had 80 years on Fort Calgary, but the Town of Calgary started a bit before the Town of Edmonton did. Regardless, by the close of the Victorian Era, the two were basically the same size. Calgary was a bit bigger through the 1900s to the early 1920s, but Edmonton wasn't that far behind, and caught back up within a generation, and well before the postwar era began. The pre-war extent of Edmonton is very similar to the pre-war extent of Calgary.

[ue]

Originally Posted by esquire

Some of the things that I love about Edmonton's urban character:

Thanks for this rundown!

-Built out LRT system with underground stations downtown. My years in Edmonton were the only time I got around exclusively by transit and it was a pleasure given that home, work and school were all along the one LRT line that existed at the time. It took a while, but those stations have become magnets for development.

I agree - the LRT, while not as built out as Calgary's (yet), is well done for the most part and hearkens back to a time when the city was both ambitious and still could design something that looked nice for the style of the day. It's one of the best assets Edmonton has, and it's very apparent when coming from a place like Winnipeg.

-Jasper Avenue has many similarities to Portage Avenue but it has a more human scale, not quite the mega-stroad that Portage is. And the types of buildings that line in offer an interesting variety of office and retail uses that make for a pleasant walk. I lived in Oliver and worked near 97 St and I always loved walking to work and just soaking up the city scene.

Yeah, Jasper Ave feels wide until you go to Winnipeg. Then it may as well be a London high street. The downtown stretch is pretty decent for walkability, but the parts west and east of it are far less hospitable. Maybe not as dire as Portage in some ways, but at least Portage still has some interesting buildings and streetfront buildings for a remarkable clip heading west from downtown. Jasper Ave has a lot of strip malls and (former) car dealerships outside the downtown core.

-Oliver - an underrated urban neighbourhood that isn't really an entertainment and shopping hub the way that many urban neighbourhoods are, but one that is extremely livable with loads of character. Every time I go back to Edmonton I am amazed at how much better it gets as gaps continue to get filled in with impressive developments. I don't leave town without doing a walk along the promenade overlooking the beautiful river valley.

I agree. Oliver is nice, maybe not always that pretty (save for the Promenade), but a functional and pleasant urban high-density residential neighbourhood. There isn't really anything like it in Winnipeg. It's closest comparison would be Calgary's Beltline or Vancouver's West End. Maybe Ottawa's Centretown. I think for me I tend to view main streets as the hub or heart of a community, as it is where a lot of 'third places' are that cause the community to interact with and engage one another. And Oliver's main street, West Jasper Avenue, is horrible. And the other commercial street, 104 Avenue, is even worse. That really holds me back from praising Oliver too highly. Critique Winnipeg all you want, but at least it doesn't have a string of big box shopping centres right downtown.

-U of A Campus - As a U of A student, I really came to enjoy the campus which was so well integrated with the surrounding urban neighbourhoods. A much better approach than the University of Manitoba which is isolated on its own in south Winnipeg and doesn't provide a lift to the centre of the city.

For what it's worth, the UofM is a beautiful campus, but you're right, it is hampered by its terrible location. Imagine if it were in the Osborne-Corydon area (where a lot of students end up anyway) or right downtown like the UofW.

-Whyte Avenue - I can't add much here that hasn't already been said. It is a wonderful, thriving and vibrant area that has a lot of its own unique historical character.

You're right - and this is one thing Winnipeg really lacks. It has a lot of material to work with - Osborne, Corydon, Provencher, Main, Portage, Sherbrook, Broadway, Ellice, Sargent, Selkirk all could, in theory, become vibrant like Whyte is, but so far have not. Like others as well as myself have said, Winnipeg does neighbourhoods better than streets.

-124 St. - I agree with your comment that it hasn't quite lived up to its potential, but at the same time great cities are made up of loads of streets like these, which are the backbone of nice, interesting, functional neighbourhoods even if they aren't spectacular in their own right.

Perhaps I'm hung up on aesthetics too much, but what holds me back with 124th is how drab and utilitarian it looks. And if Edmonton had equivalents to Calgary's Inglewood and Kensington, and then the next best was something like 124th Street, I wouldn't have any reservations. But as it is, it's the next best, after Whyte, for a lot of things, and it falls short. Calgary's next cohort of main streets after Inglewood/Kensington are more similar to 124th -- 33rd in Marda Loop, Centre Street, Edmonton Trail, etc.

-Churchill Square - this type of central square is rare in Canada and Edmonton has a very good example of one. It only works because it's surrounded by so many people and buildings, but it is an excellent gathering point and almost a living room of sorts for the city.

This is something I've perhaps overlooked, but you're not wrong. There's also the new Federal Building Plaza at the Legislature which kind of competes with Churchill now. The problem with Churchill imo is that it isn't particularly alive outside of major festivals. I guess you could kind of say that for Nathan Philips Square, though.

-A generally ambitious approach to buildings. Edmonton has always built things like it meant it. I can come up with a ton of examples here but some of the more obvious ones include AGA, the Winspear, ICE District, pretty well every sports venue, LRT stations, hell, even WEM. Everything is built to be big and impressive and a component of a big, growing, thriving city. By contrast, this is generally rare in Winnipeg... CMHR might be one of the only examples of truly going big in recent years... everything else, even if it's nice, feels a little small and compromised in some way. I get that not everyone loves something like ICE District, I'm not quite 100% sold on it myself. But the developer went big and that is commendable.

This is something I've sorely missed in Winnipeg. There's great things happening in the city but it generally doesn't have the same level of ambition. It's a lot more reserved and cautious in its proposals. The new transit master plan is very indicative of this. I also think that the '90s/'00s in Edmonton were more like Winnipeg, small growth and little ambition. But in the past decade, Edmonton has really had some fire to it again. The new Walterdale, the Ice District - with Canada's tallest building outside of Toronto, and so on would've felt unrealistic 15 years ago. My main gripe is that while Edmonton certainly tries, it often has its attempts fail to land, unlike Calgary, where they generally do land and become great, beautiful places.

Of course not everything in Edmonton is perfect, but I think it does a lot of things well. I don't know why it gets derided as some kind of place that is hopeless from an urbanism standpoint, because that couldn't be farther from the truth. Yes there is a lot of suburban sprawl in Edmonton... too much. But that doesn't take away from the things that Edmonton does a good job with.

I agree that Edmonton is not hopeless, and that wasn't my intention if you thought that's where I was going with my thoughts. My critiques were merely with the Edmonton of now and the general ethos and vibe of the city. While there's a lot of questionable aesthetic choices in Edmonton in recent years, the planning policies are much better than Winnipeg's (has Winnipeg even heard of garden suites or scramble crosswalks?). And the aesthetic quality is definitely improving, and fast. There are less and less mediocre or gauche projects. Local firms like Beljan have created some awesome fine-grained new infill on Edmonton's main streets. Perhaps by 2031, Edmonton will have finally caught up to Winnipeg and Calgary aesthetically lol.

Originally Posted by Edmonchuk

I don't agree with you on this one.
For Winnipeg to become as vibrant as Calgary or at least as Edmonton, it needs more people, people living in downtown core and money invested in downtown infrastructure.
People don't move to cities because of pretty, old brick buildings. People move for jobs, good public transit, good public spaces and safe and clean environment.
On top of that, Calgary has a warmer climate.

Winnipeg has to start spending some money on its infrastructure, where it gets it is another story.

My point is that while Winnipeg isn't as vibrant as Calgary or even Edmonton in most cases, because of the quality of its extant urban fabric, it wouldn't have to try as hard to make things significantly better. The bones are already lying around and just need to have some fat around them. Build LRT down all the stroads and between all the major nodes, have streetcars down the smaller main streets, make transit reliable and frequent. Give the stroads a road diet. Have a cohesive bike lane network (of good quality bike lanes, like in the Exchange or down Sherbrook, not sharrows or the bewildering Maryland bike lane). Curb sprawl and encourage densification. Tax the shit out of owners of surface parking lots in the inner city to push them to redevelop. And so on. There isn't one simple, quick fix, but Winnipeg doesn't have to work with or attempt to undo the upscaled and often auto-centric urban fabric found in Alberta.

[Edmonchuk]

Originally Posted by ue

My point is that while Winnipeg isn't as vibrant as Calgary or even Edmonton in most cases, because of the quality of its extant urban fabric, it wouldn't have to try as hard to make things significantly better. The bones are already lying around and just need to have some fat around them.

I think it would have to try twice as hard as Edmonton.
I walked in Winnipeg on google maps, and 90% of downtown core is a ghetto.
Exchange district is a very cool place. Nothing like that in Edmonton. But that's nearly not enough to make the city vibrant.

I am not sure what aesthetics you are talking about in Winnipeg lol

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Edmonchuk

It looks much better now, due to some vibrant public art:




Had I not known this was Winnipeg, I would have thought it's from some poor country in Latin America. It looks like ghetto, I am sorry.

my old nieghborhood right there its definatly a tresure thats being ignored. it needs people with capital to invest and change it up but with the slumlords that got their foot in the door in the 90's when u could buy a house for couple 1000$ not kiding on that saw a house on my street (hallet) go for 1k was lots of others and people stopped careing why bother careing it aint worth the taxs it costs. hell someone died kids would just sell it for cheap to get rid of the house as it was so worthles it cost more to sell then they got....... and so we have the decay. that allowe other problems to fester in the FN communities as they got stuck in these areas where slumlors cashed in and ran things nto the ground careing and is a major issue winnipeg suffers from still

[ue]

Originally Posted by Edmonchuk

I think it would have to try twice as hard as Edmonton.
I walked in Winnipeg on google maps, and 90% of downtown core is a ghetto.
Exchange district is a very cool place. Nothing like that in Edmonton. But that's nearly not enough to make the city vibrant.

I am not sure what aesthetics you are talking about in Winnipeg lol

Maybe try and visit the city? I dunno.

Wolseley:


South of Portage:


West End:


Armstrong's Point:


Old St James:


River-Osborne:


Assiniboine Park:


West Broadway:


Old St Boniface:


River Heights:


Broadway:


Crescentwood:


You're right - just a hopeless ghetto with no quality urban fabric to speak of! /s

Meanwhile, in Edmonton:




















Whether or not the North End and some other areas of Winnipeg are very rundown doesn't change the fact that there are gorgeous, well-built old buildings, nice human-scale, and street-oriented buildings that indicate that the 'bones' of the city are still strong and give it a lot of potential, if the right things were to happen. The DTES is probably Canada's most notorious neighbourhood, but that doesn't change the fact that it has probably Vancouver's best urban fabric. In Edmonton and Calgary, you have to build from scratch and retrofit things, which is quite an undertaking. That's why Calgary has had to put in so much effort in recent decades to make a quality urban experience.

Originally Posted by logan5

It looks so barren. The DTES has its problems, but it actually looks way better than that Winnipeg street.

The streetview doesn't really capture it, but it isn't uncommon for inner North Main to actually be the busiest part of central Winnipeg in terms of pedestrian volumes!

[Hali87]

What about other inner-city parts of Edmonton? Areas like Queen Alexandra and Westmount look like they at least have walkable high street areas. Both Edmonton and Calgary seem to have a lot of strong malls and suburban retail areas (not even including WEM) and it's interesting to see these surviving retail streetwalls mixed in among the neighbourhoods, especially when there are gappier areas closer to downtown.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ue

I agree that Edmonton is not hopeless, and that wasn't my intention if you thought that's where I was going with my thoughts. My critiques were merely with the Edmonton of now and the general ethos and vibe of the city.

Oh yes, I know that you know about Edmonton's virtues. Anyone who has spent any kind of significant time in Edmonton will know. I was speaking mainly about others who like to use Edmonton as some kind of punchline when it's fairly clear that they don't know the city at all. Even if it went off the rails a bit in the 90s, Edmonton is certainly moving in the right direction now with respect to its urban character.

When it comes to prairie urbanism in particular, what every city is arguably missing is the kinds of complete blocks you often see out east (think Argyle St. in Halifax). Not necessarily major destinations but a street fully lined with buildings, few if any surface lots or parkades, where people congregate to shop, eat, work, study, live, etc. There simply aren't that many of those on the prairies. There are arguably no such complete blocks in the Winnipeg CBD core, except for a short stretch of a street or two in the Exchange District.

[Edmonchuk]

Originally Posted by ue

Maybe try and visit the city? I dunno.


Whether or not the North End and some other areas of Winnipeg are very rundown doesn't change the fact that there are gorgeous, well-built old buildings, nice human-scale, and street-oriented buildings that indicate that the 'bones' of the city are still strong and give it a lot of potential, if the right things were to happen.

Thank you. Winnipeg is on my list for sure.

I am not saying that it doesn't have the bones.
But you obviously exaggerate when you say that Edmonton needs a decade to catch up with Winnipeg's aesthetics lol this is simply not true.

Jasper Ave is undergoing reconstruction. Two dealerships have been closed down and are awaiting demo.






107 ave is awaiting reconstruction.
105 is under reconstruction.
Brewery district added retail and public space needed in Oliver. Old building was reconstructed.
104ave will soon change dramatically with LRT running along it.

Most of the core neighbourhoods have been totally reconstructed in recent years, with bike infrastructure added.





124st









There is just nothing like Westmount, Glenora, Highlands, Belgravia, Old Strathcona, Ritchie and others up and coming neighbourhoods in Winnipeg.

[thebasketballgeek]

I’m tired of this comparison game that was brought on this thread. Yes Winnipeg and Edmonton both have some great urban neighbourhoods paired with numerous rundown and undesirable areas. I think both cities are heading in the right direction (less so for Winnipeg atm) but there’s no need to put either city down.

That’s one thing different about Winnipeg being so isolated is that we don’t really try to compare with other cities and are able to accept the reality of the situation instead of point out comparisons or just be in straight up denial. Whenever there is a discussion about something progressive happening in another city instead of saying “oh yea, at least we have so and so,” we realize that yea we need to be doing the same things. Right now the youth population is quite fed up here because they know how much potential the city has which I think adds a certain charm to the urban enthusiasts in this community. I’m sure it’s present in all cities but I like how often these negative issues are talked about because that means people care.

For example, in Winnipeg we could learn a lot from Edmonton and Calgary’s ability to maintain a proper high street that we sorely lack because of our hideous stroads. Or how both downtown Calgary and Edmonton did a phenomenal job implementing their bike lanes in the Downtown Core.

However, the unfortunate commonality of the prairie cities is that all three cities Downtowns are dead after 5pm. Instead of trying to have a dick-measuring contest we should acknowledge all of these cities are quite putrid in regards to urbanism, but are making increments of improvements. We need to take a look at our eastern contemporaries with similar populations such as Quebec City and Ottawa to see what better urbanism looks like.

If we really want to make comparisons let’s start of with how the Bombers and Jets are the best teams in Canada for their respective leagues

[AuxTown]

This Peg vs. E-Town pissing contest must be the weirdest thread going on SSP currently. Nonetheless, thanks for the tour guys!

[Edmonchuk]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I’m tired of this comparison game that was brought on this thread. Yes Winnipeg and Edmonton both have some great urban neighbourhoods paired with numerous rundown and undesirable areas. I think both cities are heading in the right direction (less so for Winnipeg atm) but there’s no need to put either city down.

Absolutely agree. And I don't think that calling Edmonton "the ugliest major city in the country" can somehow help Winnipeg with its issues.

I moved to Edmonton 10 years ago, and to my own surprise it has changed dramatically. There are issues for sure, but I can't call it ugly. And I've been all over the country, except for Winnipeg and Regina.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

This Peg vs. E-Town pissing contest must be the weirdest thread going on SSP currently. Nonetheless, thanks for the tour guys!

I mean, clearly Winnipeg won the battle of the hockey teams as evidenced by the NHL playoffs this year.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I’m tired of this comparison game that was brought on this thread. Yes Winnipeg and Edmonton both have some great urban neighbourhoods paired with numerous rundown and undesirable areas. I think both cities are heading in the right direction (less so for Winnipeg atm) but there’s no need to put either city down.

That’s one thing different about Winnipeg being so isolated is that we don’t really try to compare with other cities and are able to accept the reality of the situation instead of point out comparisons or just be in straight up denial. Whenever there is a discussion about something progressive happening in another city instead of saying “oh yea, at least we have so and so,” we realize that yea we need to be doing the same things. Right now the youth population is quite fed up here because they know how much potential the city has which I think adds a certain charm to the urban enthusiasts in this community. I’m sure it’s present in all cities but I like how often these negative issues are talked about because that means people care.

For example, in Winnipeg we could learn a lot from Edmonton and Calgary’s ability to maintain a proper high street that we sorely lack because of our hideous stroads. Or how both downtown Calgary and Edmonton did a phenomenal job implementing their bike lanes in the Downtown Core.

However, the unfortunate commonality of the prairie cities is that all three cities Downtowns are dead after 5pm. Instead of trying to have a dick-measuring contest we should acknowledge all of these cities are quite putrid in regards to urbanism, but are making increments of improvements. We need to take a look at our eastern contemporaries with similar populations such as Quebec City and Ottawa to see what better urbanism looks like.

If we really want to make comparisons let’s start of with how the Bombers and Jets are the best teams in Canada for their respective leagues

I like the original premise of this thread.

[ue]

I don’t know if Edmonchuk realizes I’m from Edmonton and am aware of all the things they shared (I’ve even referenced some of them in my replies). I definitely picked some less-flattering angles of Edmonton but it was to dispel with the ridiculous claims they were sharing about a city they’ve never been to. I agree it’s a weird comparison, and as this discussion more generally has illuminated, there’s many benefits and good things to both cities. I’ll leave it at that.

Let’s get back to the more interesting discussion we were all enjoying earlier.

[hipster duck]

On the topic of Canadian urbanism, what are people's thoughts about the effect of Instagram on how Canadian cities look and feel?

Whether you like the current aesthetic or not, I find that more and more businesses are putting more thought and money into the design of their stores, which spills out into the public realm. The same goes for public space: there are a lot more whimsical or interactive public art pieces, and there's been an explosion of things like murals on what were formerly blank walls. So spaces have become much more animated in recent years. I could be cynical about this, and say that a lot of this new art and design only leads to people taking selfies in front of murals so that a Facebook-owned subsidiary has more data to mine, but I'm enjoying the byproduct of this. I think it's done more than anything else in recent years to change our staid, utilitarian-looking cities.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

On the topic of Canadian urbanism, what are people's thoughts about the effect of Instagram on how Canadian cities look and feel?

Whether you like the current aesthetic or not, I find that more and more businesses are putting more thought and money into the design of their stores, which spills out into the public realm. The same goes for public space: there are a lot more whimsical or interactive public art pieces, and there's been an explosion of things like murals on what were formerly blank walls. So spaces have become much more animated in recent years. I could be cynical about this, and say that a lot of this new art and design only leads to people taking selfies in front of murals so that a Facebook-owned subsidiary has more data to mine, but I'm enjoying the byproduct of this. I think it's done more than anything else in recent years to change our staid, utilitarian-looking cities.

Interesting perspective. I hadn't really considered social media (Instagram in particular) as a driver for urban aesthetics but it makes sense. There has certainly been an improved effort when it comes to making urban spaces look good and more presentable.

I remember staying at a brand-new W Hotel right before covid and it felt like the decor choices were made specifically with Instagram in mind... I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that this approach has now spilled out into the streets.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

On the topic of Canadian urbanism, what are people's thoughts about the effect of Instagram on how Canadian cities look and feel?

I'm fine with it on the whole. As you say, it moves us further away from mundane utilitarian design and challenges people to be more thoughtful and creative in how they create public spaces. If retail outlets are using more neon lighting with slogans or are doing more to try and stand out I don't really think it's a bad thing. It gets a bit tiresome sometimes when places set up very obvious Instagram spots (PLACE NAME in front of something), but things could be far worse.

If it gets people out and about and taking in the public realm then it's a net positive, IMO.

[Edmonchuk]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

On the topic of Canadian urbanism, what are people's thoughts about the effect of Instagram on how Canadian cities look and feel?

Whether you like the current aesthetic or not, I find that more and more businesses are putting more thought and money into the design of their stores, which spills out into the public realm. The same goes for public space: there are a lot more whimsical or interactive public art pieces, and there's been an explosion of things like murals on what were formerly blank walls. So spaces have become much more animated in recent years. I could be cynical about this, and say that a lot of this new art and design only leads to people taking selfies in front of murals so that a Facebook-owned subsidiary has more data to mine, but I'm enjoying the byproduct of this. I think it's done more than anything else in recent years to change our staid, utilitarian-looking cities.

Good street art and murals absolutely improve the public realm. Prairie cities also need good sidewalks and roads. Some streets are just like from third world.

Before:


Now:

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

On the topic of Canadian urbanism, what are people's thoughts about the effect of Instagram on how Canadian cities look and feel?

I have noticed this. It is a mixed bag.

- People do expect nicer and more fun environments now, plus I think it has even made urban living and tourism more popular.

- I like urban photography and collect photos. Instagram has hugely expanded the supply of photos but also generated a large volume of what previously would have qualified as medium quality photos, and they tend to have narrow subject matter/aesthetics. This is not only due to Instagram but has to do with people carrying around phones instead of cameras (maybe 99% of people never had a decent digital camera, 0.9% went from camera to phone and traded some optical quality for convenience, and 0.1% still use nice cameras).

- In Halifax specifically I find Instagram influence tends to bring somewhat generic looking stuff rather than local culture. Murals are not new but in the past they were more likely to be about local historical events and people. Now there are more context-free tropes like that polygonal rainbow type artwork seen above. A big challenge there is to keep the regional culture alive while growth happens. RIP Hal Forbes.

[ScreamingViking]

I walked across central Hamilton on Monday, to and from the Labour Day game. I live west of downtown, and Tim Hortons Field is several kms east of the core, so it was more than 5 km there and a bit longer on the way home (I took a less direct route on the return trip).

I can write more about it later with some streetview links, but the area I went through covers almost every urban streetscape in the city aside from suburbia and industrial -- century-old gentrified neighbourhoods, blocks of slab apartments mixed among ancient large homes and old walk-up apartment buildings, downtown office/commercial and institutional land uses, the eclectic "International Village" shopping strip, some relatively downtrodden blocks with barren lots scattered about, and neighbourhoods of 1.5 and 2 storey 1920s-40s era homes nearer the stadium that are solid but yet to really feel the latest wave of real estate appreciation and speculation.

Depending on the route, you're either walking along one-way raceways, which is oh so pleasant, or tree-lined streets that are fairly quiet. The cast of characters was very broad... Ticat fans like me heading to and from THF, people out tending their yards, groups of teens looking for an antidote to boredom, infirm folk on scooters and electric wheelchairs, families on their porches, and a few drug-users doing their thing.

"Quality" would be a matter of opinion. But there's plenty of grace and plenty of grit too.