McMaster Graduate Student Residence | ? | 31 & 10 fl | Complete - Page 8

ZTrade · #**141** Posted **Nov 22, 2020, 7:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishap

Call me cynical, but I think they said no because a Bay Street station would only be one block from City Hall and, darn it, politicians might be expected to take public transit to work if that happened.

I always thought Bay didn't get a stop because it's close enough to James St and Queen St. But then I looked at the distance from Queen st to Locke St and it appears the same as James St to Bay St. You might be on to something...

This corner would be dense enough 10-20 years from now and then combined with the revamped FirstOntario Center, it's kind of surprising a stop wasn't put here. This is the center of Downtown, stops should be frequent from Wellington-Locke.

ScreamingViking · #**142** Posted **Nov 24, 2020, 3:24 PM**

I think one should have been planned there as well. I seem to recall the expense of adding another station being an issue (along with frets that it would add too much to travel times) but there would be no problem adding one later on... just a matter of money, really. Aside from will, of course.

craftbeerdad · #**143** Posted **Nov 24, 2020, 4:01 PM**

In regards to having jobs for well educated university and college students locally versus emigrating to Toronto, it seemed like some positive developments prior to the pandemic were underway. However I've always been surprised about the lack of draw and execution by the economic development board of Hamilton. Why they haven't done a better job of attracting large companies to set up shop when you have McMaster and Mohawk plus satellite universities not far away that could draw students here (Waterloo, Guelph, Western, Laurier, etc) is surprising.

McMaster graduates students in high pay sectors like health care, law, engineering and Mohawk similarly in other complimentary areas of the above. Hamilton has a great base of students that could fulfill demand but currently there's no supply, so that's rather unfortunate for the city and those students.

Chronamut · #**144** Posted **Nov 25, 2020, 5:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

In regards to having jobs for well educated university and college students locally versus emigrating to Toronto, it seemed like some positive developments prior to the pandemic were underway. However I've always been surprised about the lack of draw and execution by the economic development board of Hamilton. Why they haven't done a better job of attracting large companies to set up shop when you have McMaster and Mohawk plus satellite universities not far away that could draw students here (Waterloo, Guelph, Western, Laurier, etc) is surprising.

McMaster graduates students in high pay sectors like health care, law, engineering and Mohawk similarly in other complimentary areas of the above. Hamilton has a great base of students that could fulfill demand but currently there's no supply, so that's rather unfortunate for the city and those students.

We're just like the toronto maple leafs - raise a nursery of good players and as soon as you see an opportunity sell them off to other teams lol..

mikevbar1 · #**145** Posted **Nov 25, 2020, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

In regards to having jobs for well educated university and college students locally versus emigrating to Toronto, it seemed like some positive developments prior to the pandemic were underway. However I've always been surprised about the lack of draw and execution by the economic development board of Hamilton. Why they haven't done a better job of attracting large companies to set up shop when you have McMaster and Mohawk plus satellite universities not far away that could draw students here (Waterloo, Guelph, Western, Laurier, etc) is surprising.

McMaster graduates students in high pay sectors like health care, law, engineering and Mohawk similarly in other complimentary areas of the above. Hamilton has a great base of students that could fulfill demand but currently there's no supply, so that's rather unfortunate for the city and those students.

Yeah, this seems to be the same story for everything in this city. The amount of untapped potential is so large its honestly embarrassing at this point, and I say that after closely watching for economic development here on SSP and other places as well. I used to be hopeful, and EcDev is undoubtedly doing their best to try and support business here, but no one can convince me we haven't done a shit job of it for (at least) half a century. I've always seen Hamilton as a true rustbelt city, and the only reason we haven't fallen to the same fate as other similar-sized cities (Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Windsor, etc) is because of our proximity to the absolute BOOMTOWN that is Toronto. I think a lot of people have an illusion that this lifeline that keeps our city at ~2% pop. growth year is actually Hamilton doing "pretty well for itself". Not to say we don't have things going on here, but I think it's undeniable that without Toronto or the GTA in general Hamilton would be thoroughly screwed, and the faults of our municipal government would actually show.

The only reason most of the projects under construction or proposed even exist is to draw in people from Toronto. And our excellent city government has decided that we need more red tape than a capital City. If this all sounds really dramatic and excessive, It's because this is something I've personally become fed up with watching and just had to come to terms with. Hamilton is its own city with its own culture and the amenities of a city don't get me wrong- but to think that we can do without Toronto is a lie, and we don't need to look very far to see it.

What does this have to do with anything? Well perhaps if EcDev and the city at large (probably the general city council's fault moreso than EcDev if anything) capitalized on the boundless opportunities we have as a city, we would see at least five major corporations move head office from Toronto to Hamilton. urban and intra-urban Transit, education, educated workers, and so much more. I don't think people realize how much untapped potential there really is in this region. I genuinely ask people to go to the Toronto/Mississauga forums and realize the number of skyscrapers being built in SUBURBS of Toronto, most of which have no merit to do so except being satellites. Essentially what Im saying is, without Toronto we would be pretty close to where Buffalo or Cleveland is (which isn't terrible, but not as good as we are now). However, any self-respecting city within an hour of Toronto should probably look a lot better than we do. This is all notwithstanding the sheer number of empty lots in our city which could sustain an entirely new central business district without directly destroying any existing buildings at all. As proud as I am of Hamilton and where we are headed, Hamiltonians should not stand for the lack of business our city has attracted and by extension the quality of life a lot of Hamiltonians are missing out on.

Oh, and lets not forget that the province hardly steps in to help, like with this LRT purgatory were currently in

johnnyhamont · #**146** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 1:44 PM**

McMaster hopes to break ground on two residences in spring after legal battles
https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...l-battles.html

McMaster University hopes to break ground on two off-campus student residences in the spring amid lingering legal challenges while the city braces to forgo millions in related development revenue.

A graduate student residence downtown at 10 Bay St. S. will have 644 beds. A second multistorey student building on Main Street West at Traymore Avenue in Westdale calls for 1,366.

Millions in development charges have been at stake in the university’s appeal of a city bylaw that would have applied them to its planned residences.

But provincial legislation late last year has since exempted all universities from development charges, short-circuiting the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal dispute.

Innsertnamehere · #**147** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 3:31 PM**

This project looks incredible in the renderings. I hope they pull through on the material selections, it could be a great addition to downtown.

Shame about the lack of development charges though. This city needs as much money as it can get.

TheRitsman · #**148** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

This project looks incredible in the renderings. I hope they pull through on the material selections, it could be a great addition to downtown.

Shame about the lack of development charges though. This city needs as much money as it can get.

Development charges are not all that much and I'm not a fan of them. On commercial and institution they make more sense than on residential in my mind. I prefer loading costs into property taxes, rather than development charges which only get charged once, and then get included into the expected sale price for residential properties.

ScreamingViking · #**149** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 6:25 PM**

Isn't that part of the issue here though? Mac doesn't pay property taxes.

So for these two sites (which will be institutional buildings, I believe) the city will get nothing, at least not directly.

The indirect economic benefit of the additional students living at King/Bay and Main W. and spending money at local businesses will be important of course (presuming there are new spenders; if it's mostly housing students who would otherwise have lived elsewhere in the area, the net gain will be limited). The city's commercial property tax revenue will grow if that demand generates new business, but the two developments themselves will not bring tax revenue.

craftbeerdad · #**150** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 8:06 PM**

All the indirect benefits far outweigh some fee. The city should kiss Mac's ass for what they've done to reinvigorate and redefine the city from a meddling basket case towards progress and belief in growth.

I swear any of us could run for mayor and get more done towards progress.

StEC · #**151** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 11:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

All the indirect benefits far outweigh some fee. The city should kiss Mac's ass for what they've done to reinvigorate and redefine the city from a meddling basket case towards progress and belief in growth.

I swear any of us could run for mayor and get more done towards progress.

Absolutely agree! Also this keeps looking better and better in the renders.

TheRitsman · #**152** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 11:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

All the indirect benefits far outweigh some fee. The city should kiss Mac's ass for what they've done to reinvigorate and redefine the city from a meddling basket case towards progress and belief in growth.

I swear any of us could run for mayor and get more done towards progress.

McMaster is a massive boon to the City of Hamilton. It is not only one of the largest employers but it attracts tens of thousands students sometimes from around the globe into Hamilton seeding talent and skilled employees graduating from post secondary. McMaster and the medical relationship it has fostered is one of the major reasons Hamilton is where it is today.

While it's unfortunate to lose out on some money, as I mentioned I'm not a fan of development charges in general. They create more upfront cost to blocking development, when the things DCs pay for could just be rolled into property taxes, and should be. DCs are also part of the reason municipalities allow garbage developments, because they get a quick inflow of cash, rather than properly budgeting things through property taxes.

The situation is even worse with residential. Let's say a condo is developed and the condos are on average $300,000. If the DCs are on average $50,000 per unit, then the purchase needs to pay $350,000. The more DCs the higher the price of the condo unit.

Let's say the value of homes in the area go up by an average of 2.2%. That means the $350,000 condo is now worth $357,700 while the condo without DCs would be $306,600. The second owner now needs to spend the prior amount to purchase the unit second hand, but none of the money is put into DCs now, it's just the second owner paying the first owner for the DCs.

Now the developer is not like to save all the DCs for the purchase, but DCs in my opinion, further increase average prices of units, leading to value increase across the board. If this were rolled into property taxes, there would be a continuous stream of revenue, and it would keep housing prices a bit lower.

The only DCs that should be paid are when a building goes grossly over a height limit leading to issues that need to be paid for. If an area can sustain a 25 storey building and the developer wants 40, that's fine, but there would need to be significantly charges to upgrade capacity of things around the property. The goal of density is to reduce cost on municipalities and use land more efficiently. If a property is using existing supply it should have less upfront cost as it is simply utilizing the existing services, but if it exceeds that, then there should be costs associated.

Innsertnamehere · #**153** Posted **Feb 2, 2021, 12:44 AM**

The money DCs generate needs to come from somewhere - eliminate DCs and you are looking at massive tax bill increases.

And like it or not it’s the financing structure that the province allows Hamilton to operate under.

King&James · #**154** Posted **Feb 2, 2021, 4:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The money DCs generate needs to come from somewhere - eliminate DCs and you are looking at massive tax bill increases.

And like it or not it’s the financing structure that the province allows Hamilton to operate under.

I would love to see the math here, would love to see DC's go to zeroas developers get more creative and give back more to community with their developments. Build a points matrix or discounting cube on tangible benefits along with density bonusing. Highest DC's should be for SFD on large lots.

ScreamingViking · #**155** Posted **Feb 2, 2021, 5:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

All the indirect benefits far outweigh some fee. The city should kiss Mac's ass for what they've done to reinvigorate and redefine the city from a meddling basket case towards progress and belief in growth.

McMaster has grown a lot since I was there. If this new downtown residence brings *new* students and spending to the core the spinoff will be significant.

But overall we should all be very thankful to those civic leaders who wooed McMaster to relocate from Toronto nearly a century ago. And the impacts on the city's economy grow at an increasing rate... MIP poised for a major takeoff for example.

TheRitsman · #**156** Posted **Feb 2, 2021, 5:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

McMaster has grown a lot since I was there. If this new downtown residence brings *new* students and spending to the core the spinoff will be significant.

But overall we should all be very thankful to those civic leaders who wooed McMaster to relocate from Toronto nearly a century ago. And the impacts on the city's economy grow at an increasing rate... MIP poised for a major takeoff for example.

MIP is huge. It will be bringing leading medical science to Hamilton and employing 5,000-10,000 people in the coming decade.

With the Bay St residence bringing 644 students living downtown, and 1,366 to just outside McMasters Westdale boundary, which will likely lead to the plazas across the street and along Main to be redeveloped, Hamilton is looking to gain a ton of benefit from McMaster.

If McMaster were just a company, I'd say, yes, they should pay for everything, but as it stands they support HSR immensely, and they bring tons of money and economic benefits to the city by way of imported talent, and permanent jobs, and a growing job sector to diversify the city's employment base.