Barrhaven LRT | Proposed

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You can't build density without transit. For example, you can't build dozens of high rises on Carling Avenue based on 15 minute transit frequency. The street would come to a grinding halt. This is why we need all these traffic studies.

It's amazing how the rest of the world prioritizes density before transit. So what if traffic grinds to a halt? The motivation to switch to transit will be much higher.

Also, why does density imply high rises? Ever been to Paris or London? You won't see too many buildings more than 6-8 storeys high. And those are some of the densest cities in the developed world. High rises actually suck for building dense and livable communities.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Indeed. Which is exactly why Ottawa should impose a parking tax. $5 per spot, per day, inside the greenbelt, for all non-residential properties. Watch how quickly malls and employers encourage people to take up transit.

I've thought the same thing for years, but with a slightly different take. Rather than taxing per parking spot, I would tax based on the land area used exclusively for parking lots (including the parts you drive on). As a result of this:

1. Underground and rooftop parking would be exempt, as it is using land area efficiently,
2. Multi-story parking garages would only be taxed based on its footprint.

Now I would suggest that the tax be phased in, to give businesses a chance to adapt and I would also allow buildings a small amount of adjacent parking for free. It is the massive, sprawling parking lots that are of major concern and this tax would provide an incentive to use land more efficiently.

While this would also help encourage transit use, the main motivation for this is to cover the cost of storm water management. As a result, porous parking lots (like gravel) would be given a discount.

This tax shouldn't be limited to inside the greenbelt, but should be applied across the city.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I commute to work with my girlfriend. Two transit passes today (before the scheduled increase) would be $233 vs. the $210 we pay for parking. Including gas, driving is a little more expensive, but it's worth it for the convenience (medical appointments, groceries, after work plans, overtime...)

We have discussed this before and the economics change considerably when you carpool. The cost of driving barely changes when you have a second person in the car, but the cost of transit doubles when you pay for two people. The key is to reduce the number of single occupant vehicles on the road, as any vehicle at (or below) 25% of its capacity is not a very efficient use of energy and our roads. Now sometimes it is unavoidable,

[zzptichka]

Yup, the city commissioned a study comparing various congestion charge methods a few years ago and parking spot levy (mere $2 per spot per day inside the core) was deemed most appropriate: http://www.cpcstrans.com/files/9214/9078/4829/CPCS_Congestion_Pricing_Tools_Ottawa_Final_Report.pdf

The report came out almost 2 years ago and not a peep since then.

[Gat-Train]

http://https://ottawacitizen.com/news/lo...-governments-to-fund-future-lrt-projects

[PHrenetic]

Good Day. FYI - a City of Ottawa posting (no date, but I think it's recent).

Barrhaven Light Rail Transit (Baseline Station to Barrhaven Town Centre) and Rail Grade-Separations Planning and Environmental Assessment Study
(Project Status: Underway)

https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...nning-and-environmental-assessment-study

Overview

The first Open House on this project is now scheduled to occur in fall 2019.

In June 2017, the City of Ottawa Transportation Committee and City Council received the Barrhaven and Merivale Road Rail Grade Separation Study which examined the feasibility of grade-separating of four roadways and the Southwest Transitway where they currently have at-grade crossings with the VIA Rail line. The study was undertaken following a recommendation from the Transportation Safety Board in its 2015 report on the VIA Rail and OC Transpo train and bus collision that occurred in 2013.

On 27 June 2018, City Council approved a motion directing staff to undertake immediately the Environmental Assessment Study for conversion of Southwest Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) corridor to Light Rail Transit (LRT) facility to serve Barrhaven such that the interim results can be part of the upcoming Transportation Master Plan (TMP) review and assessed for consideration with respect to the City's next phase of Transit investments.

Subsequently, the City of Ottawa has initiated the Barrhaven Light Rail Transit (Baseline Station to Barrhaven Town Centre) and Rail Grade-Separations Planning and Environmental Assessment (EA) Study. The EA study will develop a Recommended Plan for extension of Light Rail Transit (LRT) facility from Baseline Station to Barrhaven Town Centre in the Market Place area, as well as the grade-separations of Woodroffe Avenue, Southwest Transitway and Fallowfield Road where these corridors cross the VIA Rail line. The project is approximately 10 km in length.

The City’s current Transportation Master Plan (TMP 2013) identifies a number of modifications to road and transit infrastructure priorities to accommodate future travel demand on the City’s transportation infrastructure. It includes extension of LRT facility to Barrhaven area as part of the Ultimate Rapid Transit and Transit Priority Network.

The study area for this EA is illustrated in the key map. (map shows SW Transitway from Algonquin Station to ChapmanMills BRT extension south of Strandherd)

The EA study will focus on the corridor that has previously been approved through the 1997 Southwest Transitway EA study (Baseline Station to Strandherd Drive) and the Southwest Transitway Extension EA study (Strandherd Drive to Cambrian Road) completed for a BRT facility. It will also include examining options for implementation staging, rapid transit supportive facilities including maintenance and storage facilities and Park and Ride and pedestrian and cycling facilities along the corridor while respecting the Long Range Affordable Transit Plan.

Completion of the LRT EA study will bring the Barrhaven area to the same level as other areas outside the Greenbelt with regards to LRT planning.

Key Opportunities
Completion of the EA Study will:
- Set the project up for the next phase (design and construction)
- Determine the project cost that will help in City’s Long Range Financial forecasts and securing funds for its implementation
- Be a step forward towards extension of LRT to Barrhaven area as well as implementation of TMP’s Ultimate LRT network
- Establish and protect the right-of-way requirements for the LRT facility including if required an MSF and park and ride facility
- Allow the City to acquire land for the project as opportunities become available

Study Process
The study is being conducted in accordance with the Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) Ontario Regulation 231/08 made under the Ontario Environmental Assessment Act. The objective of the EA will be to recommend a cost effective, context-sensitive, functional design that accommodates all users; is compatible with surrounding land uses; and minimizes impacts on the surrounding environmental (social, natural/physical, and economic) conditions.

Consultation
The EA process requires a comprehensive consultation program involving many stakeholders, including Indigenous people, regulatory agencies, conservation authorities, local community associations, property and business owners, special advisory and interest groups and members of the public. Hence, there will be ongoing public consultation activities during the course of the Study. As part of the Study process, an Environmental Project Report (EPR) will be prepared to document the planning and design process, and to present the Recommended Plan. The EPR will be available for review by the public and review agencies for a period of 30 calendar days.

Study Timeline
The study is expected to be completed in Q2 of 2020.

EnJoy!

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by CityTech

The Confederation Line should just be a single line from Blair to Baseline. The Bayshore/Moodie spur and the extension to Orleans are unnecessary and offer no real improvement over Transitway service. Instead of spending money on those, we should build more BRT lines like the one we're supposed to be getting on Baseline; maybe put similar lines on Merivale, Carling, and Saint Laurent.

I know this is a really old post, but I just discovered this page and binge read the entire thing. Anyways, there will be a massive improvement in travel times for the Orleans extension. Currently, buses run in mixed traffic between Trim and Place d'Orleans stations. They have their own lanes between Place and Blair, but there are so many traffic lights buses have to deal with. The Orleans phase 2 extension route from Trim to Blair is nowhere near fully grade separated. It's not an actual transitway. It's just bus lanes on a highway, and buses leave the highway at every exit, mixing with regular car traffic.


Currently, buses from Trim going towards Place face 1 red light before even getting on the highway. Then they drive towards Place d'Orleans, exit the highway at Place and are met with 2 traffic lights before entering Orleans station. Then they have to go around a bus loop, and often have to wait for the previous bus to move first. Then the bus has to pass through the same 2 traffic lights it passed before, including a lengthy left turn. So far we're met with 5 traffic lights and we've only moved ahead 1 station! Then each of the next 2 stations have a red light.


In addition, the bus lanes don't actually last the remaining length of the route (Orleans - Blair). They end several hundred metres before the actual highway exit, meaning cars can now use the lane the bus was occupying. This adds several minutes of delay PER STATION just before and after each highway exit at peak hours.

Altogether, buses along the stage 2 east alignment currently face 7 traffic lights, 4 km of mixed traffic and 6 choke points before and after each highway exit where cars can use what was previously a bus lane. Stage 2 LRT eliminates every single one of those traffic lights, mixed traffic sections and all choke points. The LRT is 100% separated from all traffic, with no exceptions. That is a massive improvement to reliability and travel speeds. The difference is night and day.


A bus from Trim to Parliament Station currently takes 42 minutes outside of rush hour. The LRT will do it in 21 minutes, during peak hours and off peak (this was stated at FEDCO). That's a ridiculous improvement to travel times. It's literally twice as fast as the current buses. The time savings is 21 minutes! Orleans also has the highest ridership of any region in the city. The idea that the Orleans extension isn't necessary, or that it won't provide an improvement over current service is so far removed from the truth.

[J.OT13]

In addition to the above, the Orléans extension is probably the cheapest and easiest phase of the Confederation Line capital project. No tunnels, no trenches, no rail yard, short distance, few stations. We just need to shift a highway slightly on land already owned by the City and replace a few overpasses that are probably due anyway.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In addition to the above, the Orléans extension is probably the cheapest and easiest phase of the Confederation Line capital project. No tunnels, no trenches, no rail yard, short distance, few stations. We just need to shift a highway slightly on land already owned by the City and replace a few overpasses that are probably due anyway.

That is not exactly dirt cheap but the yours and the original point have validity. I must say that I find a 50% reduction in travel time a little hard to believe. Mind you, especially crossing the Greenbelt, the trains will likely be able to run at maximum speeds, but buses were likely running at similar speeds as well along that section.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That is not exactly dirt cheap but the yours and the original point have validity. I must say that I find a 50% reduction in travel time a little hard to believe. Mind you, especially crossing the Greenbelt, the trains will likely be able to run at maximum speeds, but buses were likely running at similar speeds as well along that section.

Transit to/from Orleans (and other eastern suburbs) was hit hard by the closing of the Transitway for Confederation Line construction. I don't have access to old schedules, but I expect travel times from Trim to Parliament Station were a lot faster than the quoted 42 minutes when the Transitway was open.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Transit to/from Orleans (and other eastern suburbs) was hit hard by the closing of the Transitway for Confederation Line construction. I don't have access to old schedules, but I expect travel times from Trim to Parliament Station were a lot faster than the quoted 42 minutes when the Transitway was open.

That is exactly what I was thinking. While the service will improve compared to September 2019 bus service, it is likely just getting back to the pre-LRT Transitway service travel times except for those peak times where things go to hell Rideau through the CBD (particularly in Winter).

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Prometheus188

Currently, buses from Trim going towards Place face 1 red light before even getting on the highway. Then they drive towards Place d'Orleans, exit the highway at Place and are met with 2 traffic lights before entering Orleans station. Then they have to go around a bus loop, and often have to wait for the previous bus to move first. Then the bus has to pass through the same 2 traffic lights it passed before, including a lengthy left turn. So far we're met with 5 traffic lights and we've only moved ahead 1 station! Then each of the next 2 stations have a red light.

They could fix this today by having westbound buses stop only on the north side of the highway by the Park & Ride. There is a pedestrian bridge crossing from the other side, after all...

[Richard Eade]

I have to wonder if any of the last 6 posters actually stopped to read the title of this thread before they posted their comment about transit to Orleans.

For the sake of everyone, please try to keep comments relevant to the thread.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I have to wonder if any of the last 6 posters actually stopped to read the title of this thread before they posted their comment about transit to Orleans.

For the sake of everyone, please try to keep comments relevant to the thread.

LOL. I noticed, but replied in the thread it was posted in.

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Transit to/from Orleans (and other eastern suburbs) was hit hard by the closing of the Transitway for Confederation Line construction. I don't have access to old schedules, but I expect travel times from Trim to Parliament Station were a lot faster than the quoted 42 minutes when the Transitway was open.

It wasn't much faster, if faster at all. Here's how buses ran before the transitway shut down (From Blair to Laurier since that was the section affected by LRT construction).

Old transitway before LRT construction

(Blair to Laurier) = Blair > Cyrville > St Laurent > Tremblay/Train > Hurdman > Lees > uOttawa/Campus > Laurier

Laurier to Blair: Same, but in reverse

.

Current Bus Service with LRT detours

(Blair to Laurier) = Blair > St Laurent > Laurier

(Laurier to Blair) = Laurier > Blair (No stops in between)

As you can see, the old transitway has 7 stops from Blair to Laurier, while current bus service has 2 stops westbound, and goes directly from Laurier to Blair eastbound. So yes the old transitway was separated from traffic, but it also had an additional 5-6 stops (depending on whether we're comparing east or west bound buses). Travel times are very similar now and before as a result. The difference is at most, 5-8 minutes, if any difference exists. The time savings with LRT are real.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day..... and YO, FOLKS......

head this discussion over to the " Confederation Line East LRT Extension (Stage 2) | U/C " thread :

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=215256&page=23

Thanks, All !

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I have to wonder if any of the last 6 posters actually stopped to read the title of this thread before they posted their comment about transit to Orleans.

For the sake of everyone, please try to keep comments relevant to the thread.

We have 5 Confederation Line threads and 8 O-Train threads. We're bound to have some overlap. Confederation East is not completely out of theme.

Originally Posted by Prometheus188

It wasn't much faster, if faster at all. Here's how buses ran before the transitway shut down (From Blair to Laurier since that was the section affected by LRT construction).

As you can see, the old transitway has 7 stops from Blair to Laurier, while current bus service has 2 stops westbound, and goes directly from Laurier to Blair eastbound. So yes the old transitway was separated from traffic, but it also had an additional 5-6 stops (depending on whether we're comparing east or west bound buses). Travel times are very similar now and before as a result. The difference is at most, 5-8 minutes, if any difference exists. The time savings with LRT are real.

We have to remember that buses skipped stations with no passengers wanting on or off. Express buses skipped many stations at all times. The Confederation Line will stop at all station all the time.

This is a good thing of courses: it means a more urban focused system as opposed to the ultra suburban centric system we had before.

For suburbanites, the tunnel means a more consistent commute. For urbanites who happen to live near the line, the station to station service means a far superior frequency.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For urbanites who happen to live near the line, the station to station service means a far superior frequency.

And for urbanites who don't?

Nothing. Ever.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For urbanites who happen to live near the line, the station to station service means a far superior frequency.

Somewhat debatable. When the Transitway was around, I'd pay for an express pass and just walk up and grab any bus going my way. So frequency was actually quite good.

I am curious if I'll even get a seat at Cyrville during rush now.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And for urbanites who don't?

Nothing. Ever.

That's why I made sure to specify "those who live near the line". We have to take the small victories sometimes.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Somewhat debatable. When the Transitway was around, I'd pay for an express pass and just walk up and grab any bus going my way. So frequency was actually quite good.

I am curious if I'll even get a seat at Cyrville during rush now.

Didn't the express buses skip any station within the Greenbelt outside Tunney's to Hurdman?

The majority of riders won't get a seat. The trains have more standing room than seats. It will be a major shift in mentality for all involved: the age of double deckers with seats for everyone is over.

I have a feeling the trains will be tight at first. Hopefully, OC can add some trains over the next year to increase frequency/capacity. Once Stage 2 launches, some trains will be short-turned at Blair, increasing the capacity for the central segment.

To stay within the thread's subject matter, the inner-grennbelters in the west end might not be so lucky since all trains (at rush hour) will have come from Kanata or Barrhaven. No short-turns for them.