O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C - Page 63

J.OT13 · #**1241** Posted **May 20, 2018, 2:16 AM**

We're you at the meeting? If so, how did the residents react?

Full presentation can be found on the Community Associations website under "Community Meeting and Presentation Material/May 16 CBLCA Transportation Presentation;

http://crystalbeachlakeview.ca/about/documents/

Truenorth00 · #**1242** Posted **May 20, 2018, 2:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

If you consider it is about 6.4 km from Moodie to Terry Fox and about 3 km from Terry Fox station to Palladium and 1.9 km from Palladium to Hazeldean, we end up with the cost per km as follows:

Moodie station to Terry Fox station: $110.94 million / km
Terry Fox station to Palladium station: $213.33 million / km
Palladium station to Hazeldean station: $263.16 million / km

From that, we should only do Moodie station to Terry Fox station.

Concur. There's no way there's the ridership case to go beyond that. They'd be better off deploying extra funds on finishing the currently planned and extending the Baseline BRT, and on extending the Confederation Line from Baseline to Fallowfield.

AuxTown · #**1243** Posted **May 24, 2018, 3:34 PM**

Does anyone know how they plan to do the section between Woodroofe and Pinecrest? I don't see how there is room to keep the existing 417 lanes and add two tracks?? Will they be expropriating homes?

J.OT13 · #**1244** Posted **May 24, 2018, 3:55 PM**

If you mean Lincoln Fields to Pinecrest, the route will be tunneled for the most part. Follow the link for some history. Decades of back and forth between options; expropriation or tunneling.

http://www.transitottawa.ca/2013/10/stage-2-details-connaught-park-tunnel.html

1overcosc · #**1245** Posted **May 24, 2018, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Does anyone know how they plan to do the section between Woodroofe and Pinecrest? I don't see how there is room to keep the existing 417 lanes and add two tracks?? Will they be expropriating homes?

Originally they were going to expropriate the houses on the south side of Roman Avenue. Instead they shifted to the tunnel underneath the park. This is also a big part of the reason why the Lincoln Fields-Bayshore segment was shifted to LRT, instead of the original plan to build that segment as BRT, because bus tunnels are much more expensive to build than train tunnels (ventilation requirements).

J.OT13 · #**1246** Posted **May 24, 2018, 4:29 PM**

This City of Ottawa report shows a whole bunch of other alternatives studied for that stretch and why the others were rejected.

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycou...%20-%20West%20Transitway%20Extension.htm

roger1818 · #**1247** Posted **May 24, 2018, 5:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Originally they were going to expropriate the houses on the south side of Roman Avenue. Instead they shifted to the tunnel underneath the park. This is also a big part of the reason why the Lincoln Fields-Bayshore segment was shifted to LRT, instead of the original plan to build that segment as BRT, because bus tunnels are much more expensive to build than train tunnels (ventilation requirements).

Even still, the city will have to remove three homes on Connaught Avenue that the City has purchased.

Ventilation is one important factor. Another is that bus tunnels need to be about 50% wider to accommodate driver error when steering.

You will notice that the OC Transpo Depot is on an angle. From a conversation I had with a transit planner in the 90's, this was done intentionally to leave room for a future transitway extension that was never built.

I wonder if any thought was put in to put the MSF where the Queensview Depot is. It probably isn't large enough, but they could expropriate the Leons building. It would be much easier to find a location for a new depot than it is to find a location for an LRT MSF.

Uhuniau · #**1248** Posted **May 25, 2018, 3:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If you mean Lincoln Fields to Pinecrest, the route will be tunneled for the most part. Follow the link for some history. Decades of back and forth between options; expropriation or tunneling.

http://www.transitottawa.ca/2013/10/stage-2-details-connaught-park-tunnel.html

Proposed station right next to the Queensway. Next to an affluent, low-density suburban neighbourhood.

Yet it's supposedly unpossible to add an LRT station on the eastern extension to serve the social and rental housing areas near Jasmine, including high-rises.

Funny how that works, Ottawa.

Funny hot that classism works, Ottawa.

roger1818 · #**1249** Posted **May 25, 2018, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Proposed station right next to the Queensway. Next to an affluent, low-density suburban neighbourhood.

Yet it's supposedly unpossible to add an LRT station on the eastern extension to serve the social and rental housing areas near Jasmine, including high-rises.

Funny how that works, Ottawa.

Funny hot that classism works, Ottawa.

I do agree that there should be a station at Jasmine; however, while there are some single family homes withing an 800m radius of Queensview Station, the intent of the station is to serve the industrial and retail buildings (including an OC Transpo bus depot), which are much closer.

I am also not sure how "affluent" the neighbourhood is. I also see some old townhouses and duplexes on the south side of Moncton Rd.

AuxTown · #**1250** Posted **May 29, 2018, 1:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If you mean Lincoln Fields to Pinecrest, the route will be tunneled for the most part. Follow the link for some history. Decades of back and forth between options; expropriation or tunneling.

http://www.transitottawa.ca/2013/10/stage-2-details-connaught-park-tunnel.html

Wow, very cool. Will this be a bored tunnel like downtown?

zzptichka · #**1251** Posted **May 29, 2018, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Wow, very cool. Will this be a bored tunnel like downtown?

More like cut-and-cover I think. Here's more: http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uploa...NorthPresentation_20170527_CW_ED_JTM.pdf

roger1818 · #**1252** Posted **May 29, 2018, 11:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

More like cut-and-cover I think. Here's more: http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uploa...NorthPresentation_20170527_CW_ED_JTM.pdf

Yes, it will be cut and cover. That is why they have to demolish 3 houses on Connaught Ave. I assume the land they are on will become an extension of Connaught Park.

AuxTown · #**1253** Posted **May 29, 2018, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Yes, it will be cut and cover. That is why they have to demolish 3 houses on Connaught Ave. I assume the land they are on will become an extension of Connaught Park.

It's going to be pretty amazing to go all the way from Nortel to Rideau on a grade-separated electric LRT. Ottawa sure will have come a long way in the last 10 years transportation-wise. I wonder what the estimated travel time will be for that distance? Will it compete with 45-50 minutes rush hour drive to do the same route?

OCCheetos · #**1254** Posted **May 29, 2018, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

It's going to be pretty amazing to go all the way from Nortel to Rideau on a grade-separated electric LRT. Ottawa sure will have come a long way in the last 10 years transportation-wise. I wonder what the estimated travel time will be for that distance? Will it compete with 45-50 minutes rush hour drive to do the same route?

A trip from Moodie all the way to Trim is apparently going to be around 50 minutes. So I'd say yes.

roger1818 · #**1255** Posted **May 29, 2018, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

A trip from Moodie all the way to Trim is apparently going to be around 50 minutes. So I'd say yes.

And Orleans (not Trim) to "Downtown" will be 25 minutes, so I would guestimate that Moodie to Rideau will be in the neighbourhood of 25 minutes.

lrt's friend · #**1256** Posted **May 29, 2018, 5:40 PM**

A proper assessment of time is door to door.

I will have to use the Confederation Line, but my trip time is not the 5 minutes from Rideau to Hurdman.

Our overall transit plan needs to consider the full trip including bus transfers.

It is a trap not to consider the average person's trip that has to deal with the 'last mile' problem associated with all rail transit systems.

roger1818 · #**1257** Posted **May 29, 2018, 5:46 PM**

Another tidbit I gleaned from the Stage 2 LRT Presentation, March 1, 2017 (21:04) is that there is a staff recommendation to shift Bayshore station 75m to the east to "allow for improved access to the station as well as a direct future connection for passengers to access this shopping centre." The cost for the change would be negligible and the mall owners would responsible to build and pay for the mall connection (if they choose to do so).

Does anyone know if this change was approved?

(click on image to view video clip)

roger1818 · #**1258** Posted **May 29, 2018, 5:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

A proper assessment of time is door to door.

I will have to use the Confederation Line, but my trip time is not the 5 minutes from Rideau to Hurdman.

Our overall transit plan needs to consider the full trip including bus transfers.

It is a trap not to consider the average person's trip that has to deal with the 'last mile' problem associated with all rail transit systems.

I agree, but when looking at a bus schedule it doesn't take into account the time it takes you to walk to and from the stops as well as time spent waiting for the bus. That is a completely different metric.

The other factor that is reliability. A schedule is great when things are normal, but how often does it actually run on schedule and what are the consequences when it does run behind? The LRT should be much better at keeping its schedule and many of the buses that connect to it, should also be more reliable (if they don't need to go downtown, where traffic is worst).

Kitchissippi · #**1259** Posted **May 29, 2018, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Another tidbit I gleaned from the Stage 2 LRT Presentation, March 1, 2017 (21:04) is that there is a staff recommendation to shift Bayshore station 75m to the east to "allow for improved access to the station as well as a direct future connection for passengers to access this shopping centre." The cost for the change would be negligible and the mall owners would responsible to build and pay for the mall connection (if they choose to do so).

Now if they could only spin that mall around 180˚ so that the Bay is on the other end and the food court is next to the station.

roger1818 · #**1260** Posted **May 29, 2018, 6:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Now if they could only spin that mall around 180˚ so that the Bay is on the other end and the food court is next to the station.

I was thinking the same thing. Alternatively, shift the station an additional 100m and have a bridge into the centre of the mall (near where the Winners is). Still not a great option though.