Calgary International Airport II

[MMMBeer]

Originally Posted by *Stardust*

I don't usually visit this thread much, so excuse me if this has been discussed before. Does anybody know if Air Canada has implemented wifi yet on their international flights? I'm flying to Australia soon and I would love to have connectivity on such a long flight. Thanks!

Air Canada will be implementing wifi on the Boeing 777s in the near future. "This fall" was announced as timeline for beginning implementation on the 777 back in March 2016. I haven't heard of any developments since then.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=993

Originally Posted by suburbia

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Water is a life requirement. To connect making people pay for it so that another concourse can be made pretty is pathetic if that is the official stance. I think not having city water available is inexcusable for an airport.

Probably wouldn't cost that much to implement - however agree with Cage that it is also a business decision. Also "life requirement" is a bit much, where does one draw the line on that: should food be free too? Milk for the kids? baby formula?

Originally Posted by Cage

Update on the US Departure issue noted above. The lineup was being held after CATSA preboard security screening and before USCBP pre-clearance. There was a software glitch at USCBP that caused the line up. to form for pax who checked their bags. The software glitch appears to be with the program that clears checked bag out of preclearence area.

New process has passengers doing checkin and bag drop with their airline, then going through preboard security screening, then filling out an online form and submitting passports for inspection by a new Automated Passport Control machine. The APC machine spits out a piece of paper that the customs officer scans to produce an assessment of whether the pax will go to secondary. Also the customs officer must have the passenger identify their bag on screen and then clear the bag out of the USCBP holdroom for delivery back to the airline.

ETA: YYZ T1 Pre-clearance had a similar day one issue when their new APC machine became operational. In YYZ T1 case. the root cause was the customs officer not clicking the button to clear the bag out of the holdroom. The customs officers need significant retraining on their own process for evaluating passenger entry into the USA (e.g. what questions to ask and steps to follow).

Geez hope this gong show is worked out for my US flight next week, was really looking forward to checking out new terminal and Aspire lounge.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Cage

Update on the US Departure issue noted above. The lineup was being held after CATSA preboard security screening and before USCBP pre-clearance. There was a software glitch at USCBP that caused the line up. to form for pax who checked their bags. The software glitch appears to be with the program that clears checked bag out of preclearence area.

New process has passengers doing checkin and bag drop with their airline, then going through preboard security screening, then filling out an online form and submitting passports for inspection by a new Automated Passport Control machine. The APC machine spits out a piece of paper that the customs officer scans to produce an assessment of whether the pax will go to secondary. Also the customs officer must have the passenger identify their bag on screen and then clear the bag out of the USCBP holdroom for delivery back to the airline.

ETA: YYZ T1 Pre-clearance had a similar day one issue when their new APC machine became operational. In YYZ T1 case. the root cause was the customs officer not clicking the button to clear the bag out of the holdroom. The customs officers need significant retraining on their own process for evaluating passenger entry into the USA (e.g. what questions to ask and steps to follow).

Yikes, I'm flying to PHX on Friday. Hope they have most of the bugs cleared up by then. Definitely going to get to the airport a bit early to give myself some more time.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

And a few photos have even been tweeted showing people (and quite a few of them!) sitting on the floor around the gates as they wait for their flights – ouch. Seeing users of a space do that would indicate a design flaw.

Seeing the results of Calgary drivers navigating roundabouts would indicate a design flaw in roundabouts. However, it most definitely user error. The only thing worse than Call to Gates flaws would be abandoning the system due to the initial difficulty travellers have adapting to it. It's a painful transition, not a life sentence of torture.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Riise

Seeing the results of Calgary drivers navigating roundabouts would indicate a design flaw in roundabouts. However, it most definitely user error. The only thing worse than Call to Gates flaws would be abandoning the system due to the initial difficulty travellers have adapting to it. It's a painful transition, not a life sentence of torture.

I don't see it as a valid analogy. A traffic circle is part of a complex system that depends on extensive rules and regulations, requires licensing to use and testing to validate understanding before use, and - typically - user training.

The efficient flow of people in a large public space - i.e. passenger flow in an airport - requires excellent user-centered design to make it work. There is no user training in the system. No expectation that people have previous experience in using the system. Not even an expectation that people speak the same language and can read the signs. And no expectation that some passengers will ever 'learn' YYC, since they may only use the facility once in a lifetime.

If outbound passengers aren't "getting" the CTG system at YYC, it's not because they are stupid or untrained. It's because it's not intuitive to the users of the space, and because their experience and expectations tell them to expect something totally different from what they're confronted with at YYC.

If dozens of people are going straight to the gates and sitting on the floor - yes, even on day one - it points to flawed design. It needs to be fixed. Bums on the floor is absolutely a design problem.

I'm not suggesting that YYC undo it's CTG system and change the new terminal to a "regular" design. At this stage, they can't. CTG is intrinsic to how it was laid out and built -- it needs to stay. But even one day's worth of evidence would suggest that they need to quickly figure out how to make it work much, much better. Those people who were frustrated and confused today, or who felt they had no option but to sit on the floor of a brand new, $2B airport terminal did not have a good experience.

(As mentioned before, I really hope YYC does not try to fix it with more signage. Fixing a problem like this with big blue and yellow explanatory paragraphs would not work, and would itself reek of poor design thinking and no user empathy.)

[PPAR]

The airport authority could probably start with better media communication about the call to gate system. CBC radio news was running a story about the new terminal which included a segment about a passenger complaining that his westjet flight messed up gate assignments, then when he got to the gate, there were no seats!
Clearly neither the passenger or the news editor got the call to gate memo...

[McMurph]

My main problem with call-to-gate where I've seen it is with where they want me to wait. If I have to choose between a seat in something that feels like the market mall food court and sitting on the floor by a window with a view of planes, city and mountains, I'll choose the floor every time. It's not that I don't get what they want me to do, it's that I don't have any desire to do it.

I haven't been in the IFP yet and hope to hell they've done a better job of the centralized waiting area than I've seen elsewhere. It's a beautiful looking building with a lot of nice big windows. I have faith that I'll be able to find a seat somewhere near one of them.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by PPAR

The airport authority could probably start with better media communication about the call to gate system. CBC radio news was running a story about the new terminal which included a segment about a passenger complaining that his westjet flight messed up gate assignments, then when he got to the gate, there were no seats!
Clearly neither the passenger or the news editor got the call to gate memo...

It will only work if people understand it without communication.

The users of an international airport - and an aspiring hub - are not all Calgarians. They are travellers from all over the world, who speak different languages. Only a tiny portion will ever hear CBC Calgary radio, or read the Herald, or will even look at YYC's website.

If it requires PR or a communications push to make it workable, it will never work.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

It will only work if people understand it without communication.

I totally sympathize with your points about user expectations.

On the other hand, this shouldn't be that hard to communicate to most flyers. Big sign: "Your gate will be announced 10-20 minutes before boarding time. Please enjoy the central lounge area!" (Throw in a "Questions? See Customer Service desk!" if they actually have such a thing.)

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acey

To me the effectiveness of call to gate will be the assign times, and they have full control over that. Like WestJet transborders are getting posted 75 minutes prior... that seems like too much, especially for a -700 with only 130 pax. AS/DL/UA times seem to be 45-50 min prior (though yyc.com is advertising at least 60 min for every flight). Rouge is doing 120 minutes. Ideally, these times would be tweaked based on loads and departure times of adjacent gates, such that the number of people in the holdroom and at a given gate pair could be effectively modulated. Cage, is this feasible?

The time to turn around a 737 is perhaps 30 minutes. Especially at an out station. At a hub it may sit around a bit longer to make connections work as opposed to actually needing to be on the ground that long.

Going to the gate 75 minutes prior to departure you are likely to be their at the time they are boarding the earlier flight not your flight.

I don't know which shops they have in the international or trans boarder terminal. If they have Hudson, Relay, Tim Horton, Subway, Starbucks, A&W, and MacDonalds then what is the point in staying in that area.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

I totally sympathize with your points about user expectations.

On the other hand, this shouldn't be that hard to communicate to most flyers. Big sign: "Your gate will be announced 10-20 minutes before boarding time. Please enjoy the central lounge area!" (Throw in a "Questions? See Customer Service desk!" if they actually have such a thing.)

Except that virtually every traveller in North America (and most of the world) is already conditioned to do exactly the opposite of what YYC needs and expects their users to do.

We're all conditioned to get gate info when we check in electronically (and updated gate info as the hours progress). We use gate info at our "non-home" airports to understand where we need to go for check-in. And we all use our smartphones and apps for updates to gate and departure times ... not airport screens.

We're conditioned to be as close to the gate as possible, because that's where standby passenger and last-minute upgrades are announced.

And the anxiety of getting on early (thanks to overhead bin crowding) makes us want to get to the gate well before boarding starts.

The above is the result of fliers from around the world - YYC's customers - experiencing airport after airport after airport that does not use CTG.

And all of the above won't be overcome or forgotten by just some signs saying "wait here until ...".

YYC clearly needs to do more to make CTG clear and intuitive and comfortable to all passengers. People ain't getting it so far, and - thanks to the above - they have a big, big challenge in front of them.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acey

I'm with Tobuz... you shouldn't need a damn memo.

People just enjoy the comfort of being in the vicinity of their airplane. Be it fear of falling asleep, fear of missing announcements specific to their flight, a desire to not be in the Chinook Centre style of bustle in the central area, whatever. Waiting somewhere other than at the door of the airplane is contrary to the way every other transportation system works (including the other 3 piers of this very airport) so it's going to take time. It's a valiant effort to simply not put chairs at the gate, but I and many others are content to just curl up on the floor next to a power outlet so I can plug my gear in and do some work.

If you want to implement a system that defies logic, you have to put extra effort in to make it work.

Most people arrive at the airport, they are worried they did not allocate sufficient time. They are worried about how long the lines are. They get through security and go to where they have to be "The Gate". Maybe they were justified in being worried or maybe they are two hours early. Once they get to the gate they look at their watch (of iPhone or whatever) and say, I am here early, I have an extra xxx minutes to wander around. If they have something to entertain themselves (such as that iPhone or whatever) they sit down and do that. Maybe they say, I have time to grab a coffee and wander back to the nearest coffee place near there gate. Our they look around and say there are not many seats, bit it is a long walk back to that wait area, I am just going to sit on the floor and wait it out.

The Call to Gate thing is counter intuitive, you get part of the way to achieving your goal and you are stuck in this hold area where you are not suppose to know where the gate is (it is suppose to be a surprise). In anticipation of the surprise you are expect to shop and spend lots of money or magazines, over priced candy and shirts that say Calgary on them.

The closest thing to Call to Gate are some of the smaller airports in Canada. Saskatoon before the expansion was like that, two wait areas with counters connected to very long walkways to the aircraft. London Ontario was also like that until the last round of renovations.

Now I will end my rant and say "Hope it works out for Calgary, the building looks beautiful". I think they will find a way of making it work in the end.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acey

Not for WestJet it's not, at any station regardless of being a hub or focus city.

I know WN used to do 20 minute turns. At YEG the fastest I was able to turn a -600 going balls to the wall from chocks in to push was 32 minutes... with about 80% LF. A -700, almost no chance. They just take forever upstairs now.

In any event, min service time is consistently well above 30 minutes, and increasing as a greater percentage of the fleet becomes 168 seat -800's.

Is it 45 or a full hour now?

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Acey

To me the effectiveness of call to gate will be the assign times, and they have full control over that. Like WestJet transborders are getting posted 75 minutes prior... that seems like too much, especially for a -700 with only 130 pax. AS/DL/UA times seem to be 45-50 min prior (though yyc.com is advertising at least 60 min for every flight). Rouge is doing 120 minutes.

I'm having a hard time understanding how call to gate is actually going to change passengers moving to their gates if there are times such as 75 or 120 minutes. That's far too much time for people to congregate in the gate area (as they are so accustomed to doing!) before boarding starts. I'm missing something...

Originally Posted by Tobuz

It will only work if people understand it without communication.

Really, I'm not defending CTG, I'm quite skeptical; but how could you possibly expect it to work without communication? After you have correctly pointed out the learned behaviour of travelers all over the world? You might as well say "this will never work"!

Well, maybe they'll manage to increase retailers' revenue per passenger. Probably will. And they'll probably just as likely be remembered by lots of non-Calgarians as, "that strange airport that didn't want us at the gates. And I had to search ALL OVER just for a measly little drink of water!"

[Blader]

I'm not convinced it's terrible. We're not homogeneous. Some wander and explore, others attend to children and the elderly, many want nearby amenities, some want to be left alone, the list goes on. They'll figure it out. I'm talking about early arrivers.

Those who have quick connections or those who time, just in time, have little concern.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

Really, I'm not defending CTG, I'm quite skeptical; but how could you possibly expect it to work without communication? After you have correctly pointed out the learned behaviour of travelers all over the world? You might as well say "this will never work"!

In short, if users need instructions to understand how to use an international airport, it's a failed design. It's an international airport, after all, serving very diverse travellers from around the world. There is no opportunity to "communicate" CTG instructions to that customer base. None.

And I'm not opposed to CTG, I'm just skeptical! It seems like the design process for the new terminal - and the decision making that led to using CTG - may have skipped some important steps in understanding user behaviour, and in using design to guide new user behaviour.

No, you shouldn't need communication (beyond basic way-finding signage) to make your way from curb to gate at an airport. Ever, at any airport! If you need to have someone explain to you how to do it, or if you need an instruction manual, the design has failed.

And if YYC is bombarded by questions and complaints about there being no seats at the gates - again - they have a fundamental design problem. User needs have not been solved for.

The design of both the space and the process should have been based on an understanding of existing user expectations and learned behaviours. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have used CTG. It just means they needed to come up with building and process designs that would have made CTG intuitive and enjoyable for anyone -- whether a once-per-year Westjet vacation flyer or a frequent flier from China arriving and departing on Hainan.

The space needed to be intuitive and easily understood by users -- without explanatory signage, or instructional pamphlets, or guides explaining the airport day-after-day in multiple languages.

So, yes, it should be able to work with no communication.

[outoftheice]

One further point to make in terms of call to gate: YYC is the only airport I've come across with half the airport using a "traditional" gate assignment system and the other half using a call to gate system. I know that the airport authority views the new international terminal as just that, a new terminal which is somehow separate from the existing building but I can't see a single passenger using YYC agreeing with them. From the passenger's perspective it is simply an extension of the existing building.

How would anyone naturally reach the conclusion that if they are in the C wing it works one way but if they walk 100 feet to the D wing the gate system works a completely different way? They won't. The only thing that will change that is if in the B concourse renos the airport authority moves to centralized security/holding and a call to gate for the entire airport. Perhaps that's their master plan but it still means years of confusion for passengers that even the best communication strategy will not alleviate.

[casper]

The passenger does not think about this in a systematic way and compare what happens in this part of the airport to that part of the airport.

I would argue for most passengers once you get through security, they are on a mission to go to the aircraft. After they get as far as they can, if they have time and are hungry they may look at the Timmy's offering.

If the signage says "Wait here.... your gate to be assigned at 10:30." They will probably wait. If signage says "Go to gate 50" then they will resume their mission of finding the airplane.

The reason this is not going to work well is the printed boarding pass has the gate number. The airline mobile app has the gate number. The incoming flight announcement for connecting passengers has the gate number. If they post the number on the overhead displays 90 min, then most passengers are going to straight to the gate. The central hold area is just part of the maze they have to work through to accomplish the mission.

In places like Toronto and Vancouver where they have swing gates it is not uncommon to hit a locked door to the wait area for the swing gate. Usually with a sign that say, "This area opens 45 minutes before departure."

I have been to some airports in the world where they do not assign gate numbers until very close to boarding. The reality is they know the number they are just not posting it to create a CtG setup. Check In agent just hand writes the gate number on the boarding pass.

I get what they are trying to do. Instead of having all the amenities to amuse waiting passengers spread out in the building it is one central location. Still not certain it is going to work that well.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

If dozens of people are going straight to the gates and sitting on the floor - yes, even on day one - it points to flawed design. It needs to be fixed. Bums on the floor is absolutely a design problem.

Is it a design flaw or implementation issue? Travellers are sitting on the floor because they have made their way to the gate before the point in time where the system was designed to accommodate travellers awaiting an imminent boarding. As such, the issue isn't that people are sitting on the floor but rather they have been given their gate information before the point in time where the system was deigned to handle their presence at the gate. The provision of information isn't a design flaw of the system but rather a poor implementation of the system that prevents it from working as it was designed to work.

If YYC is able to ensure the way in which travellers obtain their gate information (e.g. Boarding Passes, FIDs and Mobile Apps) does not prematurely provide this gate information, the system will have its chance to work. Once people clear security and are unable to head to gate as it is an unknown piece of information, they can then intuitively decide on an alternative course of action. It happened when people returned to YYC from LHR in the past even though they didn't use Call to Gate on their way to LHR.

[Bigtime]

Notable Calgary spotter/videographer Alex Peterson with this video of the terminal from yesterday:

• Video Link

[CorporateWhore]

As a guy who is chronically early to everything, I have a feeling I'm going to hate this new call-to-gate system. And it's not just a case of "show up later", because the problem with airports is that they are a total crapshoot. Sometimes you breeze through security, sometimes there's a 200 person line. So people like me show up early every damn time just in case. Especially when I'm with my kids.

It seems like every new aviation "innovation" is just one more step in turning us into travelling cattle.