PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS

[FlyersFan118]

Originally Posted by Don098

I can't help but wonder if this building would have been more well-received by the residents at Symphony House and Perlman had the architects been better, more engaging speakers/presenters that could communicate the positives more effectively. We really didn't get someone that can speak well publicly until the young Asian man spoke at the end. To be honest, it's disturbing that an international architecture firm would give such a freshman-college-level type of presentation to a major city planning commission. For example, slides with entire sentences and paragraphs on them being read aloud by the presenters between "uhs" and "ums" is amateurish, and it breaks the most fundamental rules of public speaking. If you have ever taken a speech communication course, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Peter Kelson was the only other somewhat natural speaker.

By starting off the meeting with the hottest issue - the scale of the building - without any type of lead-in immediately turns people off that are not already in favor. I know exactly what Mr. Kohn was trying to do, but it didn't work in my opinion. Instead of identifying with his audience, he came off as presumptuous about their opinions. You make your most difficult appeals at the end once you've lured your audience in through a number of key devices. These people need to learn how to make persuasive arguments, because that's the only way they're going to have a fighting chance to win over the opposition. This meeting could have been colored in a completely different light had they found people to present this well. Instead, the entire thing was colored negatively by Fumo. If they had an engaging speaker, I can tell you right now that Fumo face wouldn't have been the only thing plastered all over the news, and coverage might have been more balanced. I can guarantee that the only things those Symphony house residents remember from that meeting are the image of the building on the skyline, and Fumo's tirade. The meeting failed what it intended to do from the architect and developer's point of view, which was to break misconceptions and hopefully win over support, and I'm discouraged by that.

I wasn't there and I didn't see any of the speakers obviously, but when you have people like that coming out to a planning meeting largely in protest, you could have Barney the Dinosaur talking and it won't change their opinions.

I would think there won't be much substantial opposition to this. It's at 18th and Arch, I mean come on, you can't really have much of a substantiative argument when you're building the tallest building in the city next to the current tallest building in the city.

[Don098]

You'd be very surprised by how effective a strong presentation can be. In my personal experience, I've had a lot of success in changing people's opinions through my own presentations and speeches, and the opposition was much more deeply rooted in legitimate arguments than what the Symphony House residents are holding onto. I don't think the opposition really has any argument at all, and they won't be able to stop it. However, getting back to a post I made earlier about trying to form some type of coalition: there needs to be a very strong response at the next meeting from the supporters, because the planning commission needs to see that the people that largely support the project are the exact people the city needs to attract in the future.

[Swinefeld]

Originally Posted by Don098

getting back to a post I made earlier about trying to form some type of coalition: there needs to be a very strong response at the next meeting from the supporters, because the planning commission needs to see that the people that largely support the project are the exact people the city needs to attract in the future.

I agree with this 1000%. This is the biggest thing, literally and figuratively, being planned in the city right now. We have to let Clarke, Nutter, Fumo and any other politician who will listen know that there is a committed group dedicated to seeing this tower being built at this location and that we are not a city composed entirely of whiney NIMBYs who poo-poo everything that comes down the pike for increasingly arbitrary reasons.


Sorry for the run-on sentence.

[TechTalkGuy]

The developer is doing allot of good for the city.

They will expand the concourse, offer retail, public park, public restrooms, etc.

What more do those demanding NIMBYs want

[Don098]

Originally Posted by fish

What more do those demanding NIMBYs want

...nothing to change. They represent the old Philadelphia that got used to corrupt governments that left the city's development stagnant for decades, and they got used to their surroundings remaining the same, and developed the notion that change does not occur in cities. Luckily throughout human history, the change movements always win out.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by Don098

...nothing to change. They got used to their surroundings remaining the same

They should seriously consider moving across the river to Camden (a city that rarely changes).

[CoolCzech]

Originally Posted by fish

Excellent!!

I think it looks better without the spire.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they simply replaced the spire with additional floors.

A nice restaurant along with a rooftop observation deck would be a good replacement for the spire.

It'll be interesting to see this tower if its actually built: all along, there was nothing but naysaying and carping over the Childs/Libeskind Freedom Tower compromise... in particular, of course, over the "tacked on" spire that was placed off-center.

It will be really interesting to see what the critics of the Childs/Libeskind design have to say once this version of it is standing...

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Swinefeld

I agree with this 1000%. This is the biggest thing, literally and figuratively, being planned in the city right now. We have to let Clarke, Nutter, Fumo and any other politician who will listen know that there is a committed group dedicated to seeing this tower being built at this location and that we are not a city composed entirely of whiney NIMBYs who poo-poo everything that comes down the pike for increasingly arbitrary reasons.


Sorry for the run-on sentence.

I'll go if I can boo Fumo.

We should get a large group...pack the front of the line to get all the seats and make the bluehairs have to stand. That will make them have to leave early due to not being able to stand for more than 5 minutes.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I'll go if I can boo Fumo.

We should get a large group...pack the front of the line to get all the seats and make the bluehairs have to stand. That will make them have to leave early due to not being able to stand for more than 5 minutes.

Good plan !!

Just how do you plan on organizing that many supporters who are available in the local area

[Don098]

Originally Posted by Don098

...what if PhillySkyline, PlanPhilly, DAG, lsn4acc, and say Penn Praxis got together to organize a highly orchestrated, well-educated avalanche of thoughtful, heavily researched letters and petitions to the PPC, Clarke, et. al. and load every meeting from here on out? That kind of support would drown out the Kennedy House residents, and show that if Philly wants to compete in the real world, they're going to need us younger, more fresh and forward-thinking generations to stay alive and relevant. If we're going to become America's Next Great City, this kind of development is a mandatory pre-requisite.

P.S. If Fumo is going to try to pull another stunt like today, I think it would be smart to have The Nut behind curtain number 2...what is Ed Rendell's stance on this btw?

I'm quoting myself because I think this got swallowed up by the flurry of posts the day following the meeting...this might answer your question, fish.

[skellergroup]

If this does get built, I think we are going to need some better transportation in the city. As center city grows upward, and transportation remains the same, we are heading for a perfect storm. But what do I really know

God I hope it gets built though.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by skellergroup

If this does get built, I think we are going to need some better transportation in the city.

I have been advocating the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway extension from way back.

You know the tunnel that ends at the old Sears Tower. The underpass that connects to the subway.

Back when the Philadelphia Transit Corporation (PTC) was providing transportation to the city, it was being developed.

I am not certain where SEPTA came it and stopped it.

But when I look at NYC (and who in their right mind can't compare), I mean, just look at what is possible (seriously).

The subways run on electric, not on foreign oil.

But this is really off-topic, so I will just ask everyone not to twist this conversation into a subway thread.

[H-Ville Man]

VINCE FUMO & KENNEDY HOUSE RELICS

Vince Fumo- Take your egotistical, corrupt ways to your tax payer funded house in Margate and get ready for your trial. When the Feds come for you, it’s time to get fitted for your pretty, orange prison suit. Have fun sitting around your “Federal Country Club” drinking stale coffee and eating bad spaghetti. No matter how much sauce you add, it will never taste like La Veranda. Please stop holding this city back.

Kennedy House Relics- In case you missed the memo, you live in a city. Go back to your afternoon naps during Lawrence Welk and we will wake you up when ACC is done. If you wake up early, and don’t like what you see, call your kids and ask them if you can live with them in the suburbs. Please stop holding this city back.

[H-Ville Man]

TO THE REST

My apologies for my rant. However, as a resident of the suburbs, people don't realize how important a investment of this size & magnitude is for the entire region.

People that visit our city don't come here for King of Prussia, The Main Line, Doylestown, Haddonfield. No....they want to see downtown. I have had more than my fair share of guests visit from out of town. Not one, not a single one, has ever asked to see Bucks County or the Poconos, etc. They want to go downtown.

Investments like ACC should be praised, not torn apart. The devleopers have guts and we need that around here.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by H-Ville Man

People that visit our city don't come here for King of Prussia

Don't be so sure!

Originally Posted by H-Ville Man

....they want to see downtown. They want to go downtown.

Investments like ACC should be praised, not torn apart. The devleopers have guts and we need that around here.

Yes, everyone want to see skyscrapers!

[alasi]

It seems to me, the focus of a campaign should be directed at Clarke. He is the council member for the area, he is not under indictment, and he reacts to prevailing political winds ( i.e. the 125 ft parkway legislation). Rendell will sign off on anything if the locals support it, if the planning commission approves the design then Nutter has to support it or it means he doesn't believe in the process he touted, so Clarke is the only one who needs direct prodding.

[the urban politician]

Wow, just read through the past few pages.

The NIMBY reaction against this tower is just plain infuriating; I feel for you guys.

My wife's cousin & her husband live in an apartment building right across the street from the ACC site (I was just there 2 weeks ago). This project is exactly what is needed on this lot, IMO, to add some vitality to this particular area.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

This project is exactly what is needed on this lot, IMO, to add some vitality to this particular area.

Thank you!

[pentopaper50]

Swiney,

I own a condo in Logan Square/Rittenhouse and work in the area too, so ACC is in my backyard. And you know what? Me and hundreds like me in the area are all for it -- 1000%! So I guess that makes me the opposite of a NIMBY -- an IMBY? :-)

I nominate you to lead the charge and mobilize us supporters for a greater Philadelphia! Booyah!

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by pentopaper50

I own a condo in Logan Square/Rittenhouse and work in the area too, so ACC is in my backyard. And you know what? Me and hundreds like me in the area are all for it -- 1000%!

Thank goodness we have reasonable people who recognize a great development when you see it!

As a skyscraper enthusiast, I encourage you to make your voice heard.

Do not allow your neighbors bully you into their beliefs.

God gave you a brain - use it - make the right decisions!