Winnipeg | Canadian Museum for Human Rights

[dennis]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

For the past 2 years, the answer is simple: none.

Hamas can't hide in hospitals and schools, when every single school and hospital in Gaza has been turned into rubble.

Unless the reason that they are rubble is that Hamas hid in them in the first place.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by dennis

Unless the reason that they are rubble is that Hamas hid in them in the first place.

Nobody with an ounce of critical thinking skills believes anything put out by the Israeli Government. The IDF has justified everything they have done in the name of weeding out Hamas.

However, technology (satellite imagery and cell phone videos) does not lie. The war crimes of Israel are vast, and well documented.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Nobody with an ounce of critical thinking skills believes anything put out by the Israeli Government. The IDF has justified everything they have done in the name of weeding out Hamas.

However, technology (satellite imagery and cell phone videos) does not lie. The war crimes of Israel are vast, and well documented.

Satellite imagery and cellphone videos can document destruction and individual incidents, but they don't automatically establish intent, legal responsibility, or the full context of military operations. That's why allegations of war crimes are investigated through evidence, witness testimony, intelligence, operational records, and legal analysis; not solely through images circulating online.

There is substantial evidence of civilian suffering in Gaza, and there are credible allegations that deserve investigation. At the same time, it doesn't follow that every Israeli claim is false or that every military action constitutes a war crime. Serious analysis requires evaluating evidence on a case-by-case basis rather than assuming either side is always telling the truth or always lying.

The strongest position is to apply the same evidentiary standard to everyone involved, whether it's the Israeli government, Hamas, international organizations, journalists, or activists.

[Sheepish]

So you mean that October 7th never happened? And the day after the war with Iran started Hezbollah didn't start firing rockets into Israel? And there is/was no tunnel system in Gaza under hospitals and leading into Israel?

Well no one with an ounce of critical thinking skills believes anything put out by Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.

With that said, I am flummoxed as to why a forum devoted to construction and development in Winnipeg and Manitoba is wading into international politics.

[neutroniks]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

So you mean that October 7th never happened? And the day after the war with Iran started Hezbollah didn't start firing rockets into Israel? And there is/was no tunnel system in Gaza under hospitals and leading into Israel?

Well no one with an ounce of critical thinking skills believes anything put out by Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.

With that said, I am flummoxed as to why a forum devoted to construction and development in Winnipeg and Manitoba is wading into international politics.

It ran a tangent due to the ridiculous lawsuit that was posted a page earlier, but do continue to be flummoxed. No one is saying Oct 7th didn't happen, and we can debate forever about how long this conflict has been going on (decades) and how the information is being manipulated. Mind you, if you're spending nearly a billion on propaganda, somethings going on.

[Sheepish]

Well, to be fair, Black Dog stated categorically that no one should believe anything coming from the Israeli Govt...that would include details of the October 7th attack. That would include uncovering the tunnel systems under Gaza and into Israel, and also from Northern Lebanon into Israel. But y'all are correct...put your full support behind Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. They certainly have the moral high ground. That'll work out well.
With that, I'll leave this discussion and return to the matters of our city.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Satellite imagery and cellphone videos can document destruction and individual incidents, but they don't automatically establish intent, legal responsibility, or the full context of military operations. That's why allegations of war crimes are investigated through evidence, witness testimony, intelligence, operational records, and legal analysis; not solely through images circulating online.

There is substantial evidence of civilian suffering in Gaza, and there are credible allegations that deserve investigation. At the same time, it doesn't follow that every Israeli claim is false or that every military action constitutes a war crime. Serious analysis requires evaluating evidence on a case-by-case basis rather than assuming either side is always telling the truth or always lying.

The strongest position is to apply the same evidentiary standard to everyone involved, whether it's the Israeli government, Hamas, international organizations, journalists, or activists.

Israel IS committing genocide. This is not open to debate. Every credible international organization has said so. The damage to Gaza is arguably the worst destruction of a region the World has ever seen. That includes Stalingrad, Warsaw, Dresden, Hiroshima, etc after World War 2.

85% or more of the permanent structures are demolished. That includes, but not limited to hospitals, Uninversities, schools, residential buildings, mosques, etc. There are now as many as 2,000,000 civilians living in tent cities, and starving.

Anyone who is of the opinion that "both sides are bad" is IMO, incorrect. It's a modern day "David vs Goliath." This is completely on Israel. Not only is Israel intentionally targeting Gaza woman and children for rape and torture. They are also intentionally killing journalists, and seize ships in INTERNATIONAL WATERS that are offering humanitarian aid at gunpoint, torturing the men, and raping the woman. I could list all the war crimes committed by Israel, but it would take 30 posts, and days.

The Israeli Government is doing the exact same thing that the Nazis did to the Jews in World War 2. The only difference is the absence of Zyklon B. At this point in time, people can either call Israel out as being sociopathic terrorists, that are hell bent on finishing off the Palestinians question, and starting wars with all their neighbors, or remain complicit.

[BlackDog204]

........

[neutroniks]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

Well, to be fair, Black Dog stated categorically that no one should believe anything coming from the Israeli Govt...that would include details of the October 7th attack. That would include uncovering the tunnel systems under Gaza and into Israel, and also from Northern Lebanon into Israel. But y'all are correct...put your full support behind Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. They certainly have the moral high ground. That'll work out well.
With that, I'll leave this discussion and return to the matters of our city.

You're perceiving peoples comments the way you want and putting words in their mouths. No one is saying they support Hamas or Hezbollah. What they are saying (and every international agency is saying) is that Israel is committing war crimes. It can't even be categorized as "self-defense". One country has an army attacking innocents and civilian infrastructure. The other doesn't even have a military. They have a rebel terrorist group that they don't even support. If Israel were the good guys, shouldn't they be trying to liberate Palestinians and not target them and displace them? But yes, lets keep talking about "October 7th", when they've been trying to displace them since the day Gaza let them into their homes after WW2.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Israel IS committing genocide. This is not open to debate. Every credible international organization has said so. The damage to Gaza is arguably the worst destruction of a region the World has ever seen. That includes Stalingrad, Warsaw, Dresden, Hiroshima, etc after World War 2.

85% or more of the permanent structures are demolished. That includes, but not limited to hospitals, Uninversities, schools, residential buildings, mosques, etc. There are now as many as 2,000,000 civilians living in tent cities, and starving.

Anyone who is of the opinion that "both sides are bad" is IMO, incorrect. It's a modern day "David vs Goliath." This is completely on Israel. Not only is Israel intentionally targeting Gaza woman and children for rape and torture. They are also intentionally killing journalists, and seize ships in INTERNATIONAL WATERS that are offering humanitarian aid at gunpoint, torturing the men, and raping the woman. I could list all the war crimes committed by Israel, but it would take 30 posts, and days.

The Israeli Government is doing the exact same thing that the Nazis did to the Jews in World War 2. The only difference is the absence of Zyklon B. At this point in time, people can either call Israel out as being sociopathic terrorists, that are hell bent on finishing off the Palestinians question, and starting wars with all their neighbors, or remain complicit.

I agree that Gaza’s civilian suffering is catastrophic and that Israel’s conduct deserves serious legal scrutiny. But the statement goes well beyond what can responsibly be claimed.

First, genocide is not “not open to debate.” The ICJ has not made a final ruling that Israel committed genocide; it found Palestinians in Gaza have plausible rights under the Genocide Convention and ordered provisional measures. A UN Commission later concluded Israel committed genocide, but that is not the same as “every credible international organization” or a final court judgment.

Second, the destruction in Gaza is horrific, but claims like “the worst destruction of a region the world has ever seen” and “85%+ of permanent structures demolished” need precise sourcing. The UN, EU and World Bank estimated massive reconstruction needs, but exaggerating numbers weakens the argument rather than strengthening it.

Third, allegations of sexual violence, torture, attacks on journalists, and aid interceptions must be taken seriously where documented. But saying Israel is “intentionally targeting Gaza women and children for rape” or that flotilla women were raped requires strong evidence. If that evidence is not provided, it is irresponsible to state it as fact. Such at the BBC article you cited saying, "The BBC has not been able to independently verify the allegations."

Finally, comparing Israel’s actions to the Nazis is inflammatory and historically imprecise. One can condemn mass civilian death, displacement, starvation, unlawful attacks, and possible genocide without collapsing every atrocity into the Holocaust. A stronger argument sticks to verified facts, legal standards, and accountability for all war crimes, including Hamas’s crimes on October 7 and Israel’s conduct in Gaza.

[BlackDog204]

Philanthropist behind Canadian human rights museum says family pausing funding over Palestinian exhibit

Museum stands behind curation as Gail Asper says foundation was set to donate $50K to Holocaust exhibit



A Winnipeg philanthropist who played a critical role in bringing the Canadian Museum for Human Rights to the city says her family is pausing any financial support for the institution over concerns around an exhibit on the displacement of Palestinians.

Gail Asper said she found elements of the exhibit — titled Palestine Uprooted: Nakba Past and Present — compelling, from interviews with displaced Palestinians to artifacts including people's property deeds and keys for their former homes. But she feels the way the museum describes the related history on panels in the exhibit is missing context.

The collection explores the Nakba — Arabic for "catastrophe," and the term Palestinians use to describe Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, which led to the displacement of approximately 750,000 Palestinians.

The exhibit drew criticism even before it opened at the national museum last month, including from some Jewish Canadian organizations who said there was a lack of consultation during its development, and that it fails to acknowledge the estimated 850,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab countries in the wake of Israel's creation.

In a recent interview with CBC, Asper echoed that concern and raised others about details she said were missing from the relatively small exhibit — like that Canada has listed militant group Hamas as a terrorist entity, and that Arab leaders rejected a 1947 United Nations resolution for Palestine, then under control of the British government, to be divided into Arab and Jewish states.

While the displacement of Jews in the wake of Israel's creation and the Arab rejection of the UN resolution are acknowledged elsewhere in the museum, Asper said she fears not having that context included in the Nakba exhibit could fuel antisemitism.

But her biggest concern, she said, is that "all the work that we put into this is going to be for naught, if people don't trust this museum anymore."

The exhibit "to me, brings the curatorship into disrepute," Asper said.

"If it's so small that you can't include the truth, then you need to either not do it or you need to expand it. That's a museum decision to make it so small — the museum's got lots of room. I think they have room for the truth."


more: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/...n-rights-nakba-exhibit-funding-9.7283326


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I can't say I'm surprised by this. At least the CBC article will most likeluy be more balanced than the very pro-CMHR Winnipeg Free Press:

CMHR ‘fans flames of antisemitism,’ Asper says, ending support from family that led effort to create it"


Unfortunately, I do not subscrible to the WFP, so I took the liberty of publishing the link and headline for somone who does.

[BlackDog204]

Geez Louise.

Gasil Asper is getting raked over the coals, in the comment sections of the Winnipeg section of reddit, and some other social media platforms for her stance. I've actually never seen anything like it. Even on forums like reddit, with 500+ comments, one would think her position would get at last some defenders. I've sifted through about 100 replies, and it's 100% anti-Asper. I guess being personal friends with Bibi will cause that to happen...



I wonder if the Streisand effect will happen with the Nakba exhibit at the CMHR...

[bomberjet]

Jews hating Arabs, go figure. What a disgrace.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Jews hating Arabs, go figure. What a disgrace.

Kind of defeats the purpose of a "Human Rights" Museum. I mean it's $50K which is not that much, in the big picture. Why must she go crying to the media every time she disagrees with something?

This is the same woman who made a huge stink, about the city reducing vehicular traffic, so that pedestrians and cyclists could use Wellington Crescent.

Actual quote from Asper:

"The street isn't just a chunk of pavement, though," said Asper Foundation president Gail Asper. Driving down it provides an "important mental health break," Asper wrote.


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Poor woman. She's got a severe case of "affleunza."

[neutroniks]

Gail Asper when she speaks to the Media about the CHRM - *Zionism Intensifies*

[borkborkbork]

"While the Asper Foundation stopped funding the museum's annual gala after 2023 "because of concerns about its programming," it was about to make a $50,000 donation to support a Holocaust exhibit, but has now paused that donation, she said."

We haven't donated in 3 years because we had a hissy fit about their programming, but we were definitely going to donate until... we had another hissy fit about their programming.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Kind of defeats the purpose of a "Human Rights" Museum. I mean it's $50K which is not that much, in the big picture. Why must she go crying to the media every time she disagrees with something?

This is the same woman who made a huge stink, about the city reducing vehicular traffic, so that pedestrians and cyclists could use Wellington Crescent.

Actual quote from Asper:

"The street isn't just a chunk of pavement, though," said Asper Foundation president Gail Asper. Driving down it provides an "important mental health break," Asper wrote.


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Poor woman. She's got a severe case of "affleunza."

I made a donation as a result of her not donating.

[bomberjet]

Aspers wanted a Jew friendly museum on human rights. And then when said museum wasn't as Jew friendly they threw a hissy fit. Huh..

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Aspers wanted a Jew friendly museum on human rights. And then when said museum wasn't as Jew friendly they threw a hissy fit. Huh..

yeah as much as i hate the aspers can we not use phrases like "Jew friendly"?

[bomberjet]

Is that offensive to you? I have zero skin in the game here. But my word it's nauseating how you can't even say jew without being 'anti-semetic'.