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  #3381  
Old Posted May 1, 2026, 5:18 PM
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I suspect the curves are there because of hydrology issues connected to Pinecrest Creek. They basically had to realign the creek in that area and daylight portions of it that were concealed in culverts.

That said, I really wished they had pushed both Iris and Algonquin stations about a hundred metres northward. I also think they should have not given up on the bus platforms on the Queensway, they might prove to be useful in the future. Had the station been completely north or Iris those stairs and elevators would be within easy walking distance.

When the Baseline Transitway becomes a reality, the detour to Algonquin station will result in a big loss in time and energy.
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  #3382  
Old Posted May 1, 2026, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
Yup, that whole area is a mess.

It went from a plan to have the buses run on Navaho (which is why that overpass is so wide, and oddly configured) to moving the buses to the south (to, apparently, free up Ottawa-owned developable land along Woodroffe, between Navaho and Baseline roads for TOD, and keep the P&R). That forced Algonquin to flip its building design (which is why there is such an awkward entrance to the loading area that requires a U-turn on Navaho). But even after such a drastic change, the City didn’t re-evaluate other components.

The tunnel, for instance was designed to have trains in the inside tubes stopping at a central platform – which, it seems, is what is still going to happen. And the outside tubes were to carry buses from the south to a turning loop around the headhouse, north of Navaho. Once it became clear that the buses would be stopping south of College Ave., those outer tubes could have been deleted – reducing the price of the tunnel, and making it more compact.

Alas, because there was so little actual understanding of what the City wanted in the first place, meaning that major decisions were now being made on the fly, it was too late to put the tunnel on a diet. An excuse was created that the extra tubes would be used for train storage. Apparently, that was just spin. They are not even laying tracks for the trains to get to those tubes. (But, of course, it is a future possibility – like the additional station east of Blair, near Gloucester High School.)

Now, look at the bus loop that we are getting at the future Algonquin Station. (Yes, J.OT13, it is so far away from Baseline Road, that they are changing the name to drop the road reference.) The idea for the north loop was a tight loop that dropped people right at the headhouse. The new loop is HUGE. Like Hurdman, and Tunney’s Pasture, it will involve lots of unsheltered walking to bus stops.
I remember the enormous cost of building those tunnels and all the design work put into the station plan. Oh well, just like the 2006 plan, easy come, easy go. What's many, many millions of our tax money spent for nothing useful.

There will never be a station at Gloucester High School.
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  #3383  
Old Posted May 1, 2026, 8:13 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
I suspect the curves are there because of hydrology issues connected to Pinecrest Creek. They basically had to realign the creek in that area and daylight portions of it that were concealed in culverts.
Yeah, environmentally and economically, that route is about as straight as it could have been drawn.

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That said, I really wished they had pushed both Iris and Algonquin stations about a hundred metres northward. I also think they should have not given up on the bus platforms on the Queensway, they might prove to be useful in the future.
Very hard same – it would also provide flexibility for detour or replacement routings when the train or other bus routes need to be upended from time to time.

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When the Baseline Transitway becomes a reality, the detour to Algonquin station will result in a big loss in time and energy.
Or, more accurately, prolong the waste of time and energy that already exists. I wish these things were better accounted for during planning phases. The amount of person-hours unnecessarily lost by these bad decisions starts to add up after a while.
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  #3384  
Old Posted May 1, 2026, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Or, more accurately, prolong the waste of time and energy that already exists. I wish these things were better accounted for during planning phases. The amount of person-hours unnecessarily lost by these bad decisions starts to add up after a while.
As with everything else in this City, I think they exclusively thought of Barrhaven riders transferring at Algonquin. Got to make it as quick and easy for them as possible, inner Greenbelt riders using Baseline BRT be damned.
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  #3385  
Old Posted May 2, 2026, 3:22 PM
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It might be useful for some people to use the GeoOttawa map to view the older satellite images to see where the Pinecrest Creek actually flowed, naturally. It ran through the Ryan’s farm, crossed under Baseline Road, roughly between, what is now, College Square, and the Home Depot. In the ‘olden days’, the gully ran along the east side of Shoppers’ City West, and I remember that there were always shopping carts from Steinberg’s and Towers down in the ravine.

(And, can you believe, Algonquin College students had to walk ALL THE WAY from the bus stops on Baseline Road, through the passageway in the Shoppers’ City to the college? Absolutely crazy. Of course, as the Baseline/Woodroffe intersection got busier, there was a reason to shift the buses onto Navaho – and what was to become Wajashk. It by-passed the delays of the intersection, and moved the buses closer to a large ridership-generator. Shifting the buses further south along the Nigig and Adjidjack, is harder for me to justify.)

That section of the Pinecrest Creek was – and still is – well east of Woodroffe, and had no bearing on where the Baseline tunnel was cut, or its orientation. The tunnel was simply laid out to fit a rectilinear configuration, roughly parallel to Woodroffe Ave.; the same way the original Baseline Transitway Station had been. The difference is, however, that buses are much more capable of plying curves.

As for the section of the Pinecrest Creek that flowed between Baseline Road and Iris, it naturally ran more on the west side of the corridor for the southern 2/3. It was moved to the east to make way for the Transitway. The Transitway was slotted into the center of the available greenspace to minimize complaints from the neighbouring homes. The owners were happier getting a creek and trees to buffer the Transitway noise.

If the train tracks had been laid in a straight line, from the 417 underpass to the Baseline underpass, the creek could have been returned to closer to its original path. Indeed, the northern third was moved west. That left only the central third still displaced to the east. Moving it back would have removed the need for two bridges over the creek, as it was moved east for that middle portion and then returned to the west.

Yes, the train would have been closer to the east-side homes, but an electric train, traveling on a straight track, makes much less noise than diesel buses running at speed along the Transitway.

Again, just crying over spilled milk. Nothing about this bad configuration is going to be changed. I just hope that some amount of common sense can sneak into future City transit planning.
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  #3386  
Old Posted May 2, 2026, 6:26 PM
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At every conceivable juncture in the LRT saga, the designers have shown a consistent inability to think like a passenger.
Holy smokes brother that is uncomfortably true.
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  #3387  
Old Posted May 2, 2026, 6:26 PM
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Pinecrest Creek was a major factor in the design of the ROW between Baseline and Iris. In fact the construction of the large storm water ponds east of Woodroffe and north of Baseline was rolled into the LRT contracts. The ponds flow into the creek, technically functioning as its headwaters now.
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  #3388  
Old Posted May 3, 2026, 1:47 AM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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So, magical ponds that generate water? I think that you will find, kitchissippi, that the water that runs in the Pinecrest Creek comes from where it has always come from, further south. The ponds are simply a wide bow added to the creek in hopes of slowing large flows.

Jump onto Google Maps/Earth and take a look. Between Royal Paan and Dulux Pain there is a diversion of the creek. Where the creek used to flow west (along the dry-ish looking bed), it now turns north into the deeper half of the pond. I believe that there is still an overflow out to the west bed. Once in the pond, the creek flows through metered openings around the big bend. If flow is too high, it backs up into the ‘holding areas’ of the pond. This structure is only a buffer so that high flows do not go further downstream. (The addition of this pond is another reason that moving the LRT away from the ‘flood zone’ near Lincoln Fields was only spin.) Just as a lake behind a hydroelectric dam does not become the headwater of a river, this pond has not become the headwater of Pinecrest Creek.

And, yes, the creek was a major factor during the selection of the train’s alignment between Baseline Road and Iris. In the early stages, the ‘plan’ was to have the tracks go OVER the creek as it crossed diagonally under Iris. This was one of the reasons for Iris being built up so high to go over the train. Eventually, it was decided to move the creek west. That removed some restrictions in the Train/Iris crossing. Unfortunately, not all of the restrictions were removed, since they kept the mid-section of the creek crossing to the east and then back.
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  #3389  
Old Posted May 3, 2026, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
So, magical ponds that generate water? I think that you will find, kitchissippi, that the water that runs in the Pinecrest Creek comes from where it has always come from, further south. The ponds are simply a wide bow added to the creek in hopes of slowing large flows.
WTF? Where did I say that the ponds generated water? They were designed to collect runoff and storm water from the surrounding community. Whatever vestiges of Pinecrest Creek beyond the ponds have been reduced to culverts and storm sewers, some of which run invisibly beneath College Square and Algonquin, and ergo, can no longer really be considered a "creek". My statement that "The ponds flow into the creek, technically functioning as its headwaters now" is not statement from a naive child who credits things to magic.

The point here is that the reconfiguration of Pinecrest Creek was done partly for the hydrological stability of the O-Train ROW between Baseline and Lincoln Fields, and even dictated the use of the flyover towards Queensview.

OC Transpo has a page dedicated to this subject: https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/pinecrest-creek-stormwater-pond-o-train-extension
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  #3390  
Old Posted May 3, 2026, 9:51 PM
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Sorry, kitchissippi. I thought that the magical pond comment was flippant enough that you would recognize it as just a silly flourish.

Yes, the southern portion of the Pinecrest Creek is a culverted creek, but it still exists – just as the northern section that runs through a culvert, from the grate between the LRT flyover and Carling to the Ottawa River, is still the Pinecrest Creek. A creek does not materialize and then cease to exist just because only a portion is visible. A creek can be put into a culvert, but it still exists.

The problem with calling the Pinecrest Pond (or Stormwater Retention Pond) the ‘HEADWATERS’ – even with the modifier ‘technically’ – is that it tags the pond as THE SOURCE of the creek – which it is not. The pond is predominantly a BUFFER to regulate downstream flow rates. (I say predominantly because it also has a minor contribution from stormwater that collects in the damp areas to the south-east of the pond. Look on an areal view, and you will see the riprap paths.)

Once the Pinecrest Pond is holding its normal volume of water (which it likely is now), the volume of water flowing through the culverted south portion of the creek into the pond and the volume flowing out of the pond, into the visible section of the creek, will be roughly equal. So, when you stand on the Pinecrest Creek Pathway Bridge over the creek, on a sunny summer day, the volume of water flowing beneath you is the same as the volume of water that is flowing through the culverted creek into the pond.

I apologize, kitchissippi, for offending you with my flip remark.
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  #3391  
Old Posted May 5, 2026, 1:28 PM
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Sherbourne Station last weekend. The headhouse seems quite spacious. Plenty of fare gates, double elevators. A very nice addition to the area.





At the back is the multi level park feature that hides the ventilation system.

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  #3392  
Old Posted May 8, 2026, 4:09 AM
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They've been busy all week installing the catenary wires in the trench all the way into Tunneys Pasture. I hope it's not too long before we see test trains running through.
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  #3393  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2026, 1:03 PM
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Rail Fans Canada takes you trackside for an in-depth update on Ottawa’s expanding LRT system. In this June 2026 video, we show the latest progress on the O-Train Stage 2 West Extension, stretching from Tunney's Pasture Station to Algonquin in Nepean, and Moodie towards Kanata.

Video Link
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  #3394  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2026, 10:48 PM
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Well, it looks as if the very heavy rain did have some negative effects on the western extension.

Grayson Evans posted a video of a wash-out of the tracks between Moodie Station and the LMSF: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lrtwrecks/posts/2049791392410798/

Buried in the comments for that video is a ‘day after’ picture from Paul Msm on Facebook:

And, as CTV NEWS says in this article: https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/we...dents-continue-difficult-flood-clean-up/
There were obvious attempts to drain the New Orchard Station.
(Image from that article)

Last edited by Richard Eade; Jul 3, 2026 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Cite image.
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  #3395  
Old Posted Yesterday, 1:15 PM
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Well that's not great. I get that this was an exceptional rain fall, but these will likely become more common.

Ottawa should consider building more CSST tunnels, starting with the urban west end.
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  #3396  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:59 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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I walked around the area of Moodie Station and the Corkstown Yard LMSF, on Saturday, July 3, 2026. I was hoping to make some sense of the flooding that occurred there two days earlier, on July 1. Here is what I have come up with:

I walked the area to observe any damage, but also to look for signs of where water had flowed. The damage was significant in only a few areas. For example, I saw two areas where the old freight line had been washed out. The worst was just north of Corkstown Road. This was due to water flowing downhill, along the north edge of Corkstown Road, across the tracks and into the field at Wesley Clover Equestrian Park. This water did not cross to the south side of Corkstown Road, thus did not have any effect on the LRT infrastructure.

A second, slightly smaller, wash-out occurred on that same freight line, south of the 417, where it crosses the western branch of Stillwater Creek. That water then flowed eastbound along the south side of the 417 to join the central branch of Stillwater Creek, about half way to Moodie Drive. Water from those two branches merged and did one of two things; it either flowed northbound through the culvert to the north side of the 417 (where the Corkstown Yard LMSF is located); or it continued flowing overland to flood the farm field and the 417 On and Off ramps in the south-west quadrant of the 417 - Moodie Drive interchange.

Image of the flooded interchange ramps:



This flooding does not appear to have caused any serious damage to the roadways. Although there was some edge wash-out along the north edge of the eastbound lanes, in the median, just west of the Moodie overpass.

Water damage was more evident north of the 417, in the area of the rail connection between the Moodie LRT Station and the Corkstown Yard facilities. That section of track has a downward grade to the east, causing water to flow quite fast. This fast-moving water washed-out the ballast from under the tracks, and deposited it on the track switches, where the water slowed as it passed the low point.

Images of the scoured ballast:





And it was a good thing that there was a flexible connector in the gas line to the switch heater. The base of it was under-cut and the heater shifted.



I think that there were a number of factors that led to the damage. First, and foremost, is the huge quantity of rain that fell in a relatively short period of time. But a greater rate of rainfall occurred on September 9, 2004. Obviously, there was flooding then, also. Luckily, there was no Corkstown Yard LMSF at that time, thus no LRT tracks to damage.

But let’s look at what has changed in this area. Here is what that area would have looked like during that previous exceptional storm:



The 417 is three-lanes per direction (2 for general traffic, and 1 for buses-only), and has a wide median to collect stormwater. On the north side, there is a wide grass area between the 417 and Corkstown Road, that can catch and store any stormwater runoff. Thus, it mostly doesn’t matter if there is runoff from the 417.

But take a closer look at the eastern end of the image, just north of the On ramp from Moodie-SB to 417-WB:



There was a ditch and culvert under Corkstown Road so that stormwater from that area could flow north to join Stillwater Creek. (I have highlighted it in light blue.) My thinking is that, if they went to the trouble of adding a ditch and culvert, it was because they found it necessary.

That ditch, along the On ramp, is no longer there. The culvert under Corkstown Road has been repurposed to only handle stormwater flowing from the midpoint of that On ramp – not its entire length.

Also, since that large storm in 2004, the 417 has had extra lanes added, and the stormwater storage area of the median has all but disappeared – meaning a lot more water will flow from the 417. That widening might not have mattered much, while there was still a wide stormwater buffer space on each side – but then came the Corkstown Yard LMSF.

So, as best I can figure, the stormwater flow went something like this.



The legacy culvert, which carries the central branch of Stillwater Creek under Corkstown Road, looks to be the original one from when Corkstown Road was built. I expect that it is under-sized when it comes to the heavier rains that we now seem to have. It may have been adequate while there was limited additional stormwater flowing from the 417, but now it needs to allow the flow of the creek AND the 417 water. There was evidence that the stormwater overwhelmed that culvert. Increasing the size of the culvert may not be possible, since it would dump more water onto another owner’s property.

An alternative is to restrict the amount of stormwater flowing in that branch of Stillwater Creek as it passes under the 417, creating more flooding in the field to the south. This would likely require the 417-EB to Moodie-SB ramp to be elevated to form a dike – which might be a good idea anyway, based on the recent road flooding.

Although nothing can be 100% sure to prevent flooding/damage from a future bigger storm, I would suggest that they try to recreate the ditch along that Moodie-SB to 417-WB ON ramp. Have it flow in both directions, toward a center culvert (installed under the tracks, just west of the down-slope) that takes the water out to a ditch along the south edge of Corkstown Road. That ditch would then be reconnected, through the culvert to the original north-running ditch.
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  #3397  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:45 PM
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Very interesting report and photos Richard!

Flooding in this area was identified as a risk (p. 166-192 of PDF) in the original studies and pretty significant projects have been planned to mitigate the impacts. From reading other reports, some of them may have been modified to natural infrastructure after the ESR due to community feedback during the design process.

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/defaul...T%20Environmental%20Project%20Report.pdf

There's been a lot of work with the City, RVCA and the NCC on modifications to the drainage in the area and plans for the flooding along Stillwater.... some is still underway. Not sure how much of the hard infrastructure is done yet.

https://www.rvca.ca/component/content/article/restoration-projects?catid=29&Itemid=101
https://iaac-aeic.gc.ca/050/evaluations/proj/90416

Very interested to see the post-storm event reports from RVCA and the City.
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  #3398  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:18 PM
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Thanks for the photos and the investigation.

It makes sense that this area would have problems with water. If you think about it, all the rainwater falling on just over a 2km stretch of the highway wants to run down the hill, one way or another, and cause issues in that spot. A rough calculation shows that just shy of 13 million litres of rainwater fell on the highway on that hill on July 1. To put that in perspective, that’s all the water that fits inside the 8 locks on the Rideau Canal beside the Chateau Laurier, plus the water from 2 more.
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