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  #1601  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2024, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
Not all industrial use is wrecking yards and bomb defusing. I might sound like a broken record but Japan doesn't seem to have any issues with this at all. If sound is an issue, the issue is sound. Enforce the noise bylaws instead of trying to solve the problem with zoning.
I think the issue is you need some place where industry can make some noise. Does it have to be everywhere? No.

What should be viable is having some buildings at the perimeter that have industrial with high-bays and loading docks on the ground floor and then residential above.
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  #1602  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2024, 10:25 AM
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I think the issue is you need some place where industry can make some noise. Does it have to be everywhere? No.

What should be viable is having some buildings at the perimeter that have industrial with high-bays and loading docks on the ground floor and then residential above.
Japanese zoning



Note that housing is allowed in all zones except exclusive industrial zones!
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  #1603  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2025, 8:49 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Some of the projects discussed in the article

St Pauls, Army & Navy site, HBC Parkade, COV land next to the Cambie Street Bridge. I'm pretty sure the COV land will be another 50-60 storey rental development.

Quote:
“It’s absolutely true and very obvious that every freaking developer and landowner is trying to do that,” said James Cheng, the Vancouver architect who helped shape the city’s skyline and has designed about 50 downtown towers since opening his firm in 1978.

One project undergoing a re-think is the redevelopment of the former Army & Navy department store property. In 2023, Bosa Properties CEO Colin Bosa told Postmedia they had initially envisioned a 32-storey tower, but that view protection rules cut that down to 17 storeys.

Reached this week, Dan Cupa, Bosa Properties’ senior vice-president of residential, said the developer is now working with Army & Navy CEO Jacqui Cohen and city staff on a new plan “that delivers additional secured rental housing and commerce space, enabled by the view protection policy changes.”

“We plan to move forward with an amended rezoning application this winter and remain committed to working with the community to bring renewal to Gastown and the Downtown Eastside while harnessing the history and spirit of Army & Navy,” Cupa said in an emailed statement.
Quote:
Several large properties owned by the City of Vancouver will also be affected, including the undeveloped land on False Creek’s south shore, east of the Cambie Bridge. Meiszner said there could be more news soon regarding that long-undeveloped site.
Quote:
For certain projects that still fall within the city’s existing view-protection corridors, developers do have an option to apply to the city for an exemption.

The guidelines approved last year contain a special section for select “exceptional downtown sites.” Such sites would have to be at least 8,000 square metres, and have “the potential to contribute to strategic and transformative city-building” and contribute public benefits, the guidelines say.
James Cheng

Quote:
“First, I’m in support of view cones, and I was in support of modifying the view cones,” he said. At the same time, “View cone policy should be established with a clear set of public benefits and priorities.”

Examples, he said, could include adding south-facing plazas that get the end-of-day sunshine, public observation decks in the taller towers, and creation of destination areas where people can gather and interact.
Quote:
Peter Webb, Concord Pacific’s senior vic-president of development, said the company is considering what the future of the St. Paul’s property could entail after the hospital moves to its new home near Terminal Avenue, which is now under construction. Concord Pacific bought the property in 2020 for $850 million.

Webb said Concord Pacific has a 3D-printed model of what a development of the St. Paul’s site could look like with the existing view restrictions. The same model has an attachable piece to show how much additional building could be achieved by relaxing view cones.

The company is not yet in a position to make images of the models public, Webb said.
“It’s still in early, early stages of working with the city at this point, and it hasn’t even in a meaningful way evolved to the point where we have any confidence about our ability to impact the presently existing view cones,” he said.

The city confirmed in an email that the St. Paul’s site is one of two “prominent parcels” — the other is the Hudson’s Bay parkade — which could be considered as exceptional downtown sites, although it noted no rezoning applications have been submitted for either of these sites.
https://vancouversun.com/news/vancouver-real-estate-view-protection-policies-relaxed
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  #1604  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2025, 9:42 PM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
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Does the Cohen family still own the Army and Navy building? I walked by a few weeks ago, easy to forget how big that building and property is. Bosa to develop I assume?
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  #1605  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2025, 10:00 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Does the Cohen family still own the Army and Navy building? I walked by a few weeks ago, easy to forget how big that building and property is. Bosa to develop I assume?
Sounds like she still owns the site with Bosa just developing.
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  #1606  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2025, 11:04 PM
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Why building higher in Vancouver isn't always possible, or more lucrative

The City of Vancouver’s decision to relax view-protection policies prompted a flurry of developers to say they’ll seek to build taller, but some in the industry question how much of this new density will actually be built.

Getting approval to add floors means more units can be sold on the same site and there is more money to be made from it. But there might be a tipping point, some say, where it isn’t necessarily more lucrative or even that easy for the density that is being approved to actually get built, even though the value of the land increases because of it.

“The thing about doing bigger, taller buildings isn’t only that they are more expensive to build, but there is an all-or-nothing proposition to them,” said Michael Geller, a longtime developer, real estate consultant, urban planner and retired architect.

If you compare 600 units in one 60-storey building with 600 units spread across three buildings, it’s much harder in the single, tall building to sell the number of units needed to get financing, he explained. There isn’t the opportunity to phase in the process and start by selling and building 200 in one building first.

It’s also the case, he said, that taller buildings take much longer to complete, which increases carrying costs.

“If a six-storey wood frame building takes 12 months or maybe as long as 14 to 16 months to build, an 18-storey tower can take two years. A 60-storey one takes proportionately longer,” he said.

As Postmedia News reported earlier this month, changes to view protection policies last year by Vancouver city council have prompted some developers of condo projects to revise long-held building plans and shoot for much higher towers, including the owners of two major sites on northeast False Creek.

Taller towers have been approved elsewhere in Metro Vancouver, such as in Burnaby where Pinnacle International has the green light to proceed with two residential towers that will be among the tallest in Western Canada at 72 and 80 storeys.

But there has also been a trend in the market of some developers shifting plans they had for taller buildings in favour of shorter buildings.

According to Vancouver architect James Cheng, experienced developers know there are other factors that directly affect their profitability.

“Maximum density is not the only answer to increasing profits,” he said.

Increasing allowances for density doesn’t solve some deep truisms, he said.

“Our current Vancouver-area markets are being hit with this triple whammy: building too big, no market to absorb it and it is inefficient to build. That is why so many projects are cancelled and so many are in court-ordered sales,” said Cheng.

But Richard Bernstein, principal at Chris Dikeakos Architects, said changes to Vancouver’s view protection policies are a significant incentive for developers to build higher in order to make their pro forma documents, which chart future income and expenses, work. Building higher can yield more income to help offset construction costs, for example.

Even though he has seen a number of developers switch from higher heights to building in a sweet spot of between 35 to 45 storeys, he doesn’t think it’s as simple as saying there is a specific height after which the costs get too expensive. There are other variables to consider that are unique to each site.

“It still might make sense (to go higher) if the developer bought the site many years ago when land costs were much lower,” Bernstein said.

Others agree that being in a position to take advantage of increased density and build taller buildings requires a number of factors to come together.

“It was great to see the city removing view cones resulting in a meaningful increase in density,” said Jim Szabo, vice-chairman of CBRE Canada. “While this move is lauded, the issue of getting projects built is not solely a density issue.”

He explained that when plans for a single, 30-storey tower change to being a 50-storey one, the cost escalates from $225 million to about $400 million.

“The equity required and the risk profile more than doubles. Very few developers can or are willing to play in this field, meaning very few of these high-density projects will get built,” Szabo said.
https://vancouversun.com/news/building-higher-isnt-always-more-lucrative
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  #1607  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 12:26 AM
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I still maintain that given (close to) zero restrictions from a municipality, the Squamish decided to build 50 story towers on their reserve at Senakw in partnership with Westbank. They seem to believe the accounting works out for that height.
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  #1608  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
I still maintain that given (close to) zero restrictions from a municipality, the Squamish decided to build 50 story towers on their reserve at Senakw in partnership with Westbank. They seem to believe the accounting works out for that height.
But they didn't pay for the land and got financing from the federal government...
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  #1609  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 1:05 AM
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But they didn't pay for the land and got financing from the federal government...
Land cost is irrelevant if you're choosing between 30 and 50 stories. It's the same land. Even if you get it rezoned for higher density and the land value goes up, you still bought the land for the same price originally.
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  #1610  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 1:31 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Land cost is irrelevant if you're choosing between 30 and 50 stories. It's the same land. Even if you get it rezoned for higher density and the land value goes up, you still bought the land for the same price originally.
Well the phase 1 towers are 26/31/39 stories..
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  #1611  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 1:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Well the phase 1 towers are 26/31/39 stories..
I don't personally understand why when developers here build out master planned developments every building has to be a different height, but Senakw is planned to have 3 >50 story buildings along with 2 45 story buildings.

At the very least, phase 1 is the more limited block of land so that might explain the lower height there.
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  #1612  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 2:03 AM
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This is a self defeating argument then, if developers don't want to build tall even when able to, then the view cones are mute to start with? So why have them?

Seems to me many proposals have been rejected / reduced in height due to the view cones, so obviously someone wants to build higher!
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  #1613  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2025, 2:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
This is a self defeating argument then, if developers don't want to build tall even when able to, then the view cones are mute to start with? So why have them?

Seems to me many proposals have been rejected / reduced in height due to the view cones, so obviously someone wants to build higher!
I think that has to do with the argument that if you get rid of view cones it will dump a bunch of 80 storey towers downtown. Where the reality is that the more restrictive view cones block out 5-10 storeys off of shorter towers.
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  #1614  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2025, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
This is a self defeating argument then, if developers don't want to build tall even when able to, then the view cones are mute to start with? So why have them?

Seems to me many proposals have been rejected / reduced in height due to the view cones, so obviously someone wants to build higher!
Exactly: Viewcones have already cost us billions in unnecessary over-design and lost-revenue. We lost potential residents and businesses to come live and set up here due to all the restrictions. Only Nimbys and misguided individuals rejoice at that.

The policy was only set up to appease some self-entitled and selfish individuals who succeeded in brainwashing the majority. Only now are people starting to open their eyes to see the damage it has caused.

FYI, the policy has nothing to do with enabling the majority of Vancouverites to enjoy views of the north-shore mountains. That's a myth.
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  #1615  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2025, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Exactly: Viewcones have already cost us billions in unnecessary over-design and lost-revenue. We lost potential residents and businesses to come live and set up here due to all the restrictions. Only Nimbys and misguided individuals rejoice at that.

The policy was only set up to appease some self-entitled and selfish individuals who succeeded in brainwashing the majority. Only now are people starting to open their eyes to see the damage it has caused.

FYI, the policy has nothing to do with enabling the majority of Vancouverites to enjoy views of the north-shore mountains. That's a myth.
LOL, money laundering and a flood of offshore money have done far more to drive up housing costs to insane levels than the view cones.
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  #1616  
Old Posted May 2, 2025, 2:31 PM
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View Cone 27 Trout Lake Review

Proposed changes to the Trout Lake view cone.

https://www.shapeyourcity.ca/trout-lake-views

Existing view cone:





Images from City of Vancouver

Last edited by madog222; May 2, 2025 at 2:41 PM.
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  #1617  
Old Posted May 2, 2025, 9:07 PM
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Proposed changes to the Trout Lake view cone.

*snip*
Well done to the city planners working on this one. A necessary update that keeps the intention of the view cones alive while allowing for density around probably the most well served area for transit in the entire region. This is a win-win.
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  #1618  
Old Posted May 2, 2025, 9:56 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Come back in 20 years and the trees will obstruct all the viewpoints
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  #1619  
Old Posted May 2, 2025, 10:11 PM
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I'd just scrap 27.1 entirely. You'd need a row of those pay-per-view binoculars to see the Sisters from Trout Lake.
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  #1620  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2025, 8:50 PM
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Not directly a view cone issue, but may have the impact of walking back view cone relaxations...

Building shadowing policies for downtown Vancouver peninsula see updates
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/downtown...hadowing-solar-access-guidelines-updates

Opinion: New building shadowing policies could kill many downtown Vancouver projects
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/downtown...solar-access-policies-development-impact
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