Palladium/Corel Centre/ Scotiabank Place/Canadian Tire Centre

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

While I agree with the general principal you've put forward... the investment into Lansdowne, Lebreton, LRT, Library, Civic hospital, $500M to revitalize downtown, etc. is all very urban instead of suburban.

The LRT project is only "urban" to the extent that it moves suburban commuters in and out of the downtown core, and incidentally serves a few additional urban stops along the way. The plan overall is very suburban, and there is still no meaningful plan to improve transit in the urban "transect" or whatever this decade's buzzphrase is.

I have seen no sign of the mythical $500-million revitalization of downtown, and in any case, was that amount city, or even public, money?

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The LRT project is only "urban" to the extent that it moves suburban commuters in and out of the downtown core, and incidentally serves a few additional urban stops along the way. The plan overall is very suburban, and there is still no meaningful plan to improve transit in the urban "transect" or whatever this decade's buzzphrase is.

I have seen no sign of the mythical $500-million revitalization of downtown, and in any case, was that amount city, or even public, money?

Who outside of the greenbelt can make use of the LRT today?

As for the $500M - perhaps do your own research AKA "Google" - https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/new-plan-t...fund-1.6896215

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Who outside of the greenbelt can make use of the LRT today?

Greenbelt?

As for the $500M - perhaps do your own research AKA "Google" - https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/new-plan-t...fund-1.6896215

The verbal phrase "calls for" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in that article, and most of the rest of the lifting is done by "from all levels of government and the private sector".

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The verbal phrase "calls for" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in that article, and most of the rest of the lifting is done by "from all levels of government and the private sector".

This is the Ottawa Board of Trade proposing a $500 million investment by other parties. Not quite the same as an actual $500 million investment.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by harls

Calypso has really gone downhill in the last few years.

But it's still packed to the brim every day. Which is probably why they've realized they can cut corners on service/quality and still rake in a huge profit.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Who outside of the greenbelt can make use of the LRT today?

Literally every commuter which is who it's predominantly used by. Sure there is utility for urban residents but only by coincidence. If it was truly built for urban residents it would travel through the most densely-developed corridors instead of taking the fastest and cheapest route to the suburbs like down the median of Hwy 174.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Greenbelt?



The verbal phrase "calls for" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in that article, and most of the rest of the lifting is done by "from all levels of government and the private sector".

The mayor is going to get the Feds to pump loads of money into the downtown, expand Sparks Street - life will be great.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The LRT project is only "urban" to the extent that it moves suburban commuters in and out of the downtown core, and incidentally serves a few additional urban stops along the way. The plan overall is very suburban, and there is still no meaningful plan to improve transit in the urban "transect" or whatever this decade's buzzphrase is.

Agreed. Urban neighbourhoods are only served because they happen to be on the route. If the City could figure out how to teleport suburbanites to downtown, bypassing the rest of the city, they would.

The lack of service for 40 years between Lincoln Fields and Westboro (Dominion being is Westboro), a fairly dense corridor for the era, is proof that they never cared. I'm kind of shocked they added two stations along that stretch for Stage 2. They did avoid dense and low income Montreal Road in the 80s and again with the O-Train. Heck, we even avoided building a station at Jasmine that would have served high density/low income and tons of City services.

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Who outside of the greenbelt can make use of the LRT today?

As for the $500M - perhaps do your own research AKA "Google" - https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/new-plan-t...fund-1.6896215

Per phil, this is just an idea from the Ottawa Board of Trade, not actual money being invested.

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Literally every commuter which is who it's predominantly used by. Sure there is utility for urban residents but only by coincidence. If it was truly built for urban residents it would travel through the most densely-developed corridors instead of taking the fastest and cheapest route to the suburbs like down the median of Hwy 174.

Yup. The ultimate goal is to serve commuters, and add TOD. Certainly not to serve existing urban residents.

With that, we're getting off topic. This thread should be about the Palladium, not the urban vs suburban conversation.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

With that, we're getting off topic. This thread should be about the Palladium, not the urban vs suburban conversation.

Very true. Hard to say what the best use of the land will be, or whether it includes the existing building. There are ways to convert large arenas, but they are pretty limited. A waterpark is a possibility, but likely cheaper to just build from scratch.

The two options that probably make the most sense are a concert venue or to continue to use it as an arena with a smaller scale. Both are not perfect, as you would probably be looking at removing 8-10000 seats, and they would compete with the new arena for shows. That said, it would be conceivable that the Sens would consider moving their farm team into town, like Toronto/Montreal/Calgary had done. Definitely makes it convenient for the team and the players.

If the end up tearing down the arena, it's a huge site, so almost certainly mixed use. Then it really could be any combination of retail/residential/office that values highway (and eventually transit) access. It would be disappointing if they don't incorporate something unique into the development.

[J.OT13]

I'm always in favour of saving/re-adapting buildings whenever possible to save on waste. Although some sort of a conversion would be cool, I'm not sure how realistic that is with a modern NHL arena. Montreal and Toronto converted smaller, simpler barns designed in the 1920s. I can't think of a modern era NHL or NBA rink that has been converted.

I do like the idea of moving the baby Sens to Kanata (though sad for Belleville). That way, Kanata would still get a team to support local businesses and reducing the rink to 10k seats could partially compensate for losing the larger Civic Centre while avoiding direct competition with the new LeBreton arena. The parking immediately adjacent could become an entertainment district, and the rest quieter, dense residential areas. This plan would also help the justification for Stage 3.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

The mayor is going to get the Feds to pump loads of money into the downtown, expand Sparks Street - life will be great.

The Mayor is going to do no such thing.

[J.OT13]

Someone on the Canada forum reminded me of the Memphis Pyramid, a 20k basketball venue built only a few years before the Palladium turned Bass Pro Shop. That would be right up Kanata's alley.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Pyramid


https://www.forbes.com/sites/joesill...ass-pro-shops/

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I do like the idea of moving the baby Sens to Kanata (though sad for Belleville). That way, Kanata would still get a team to support local businesses and reducing the rink to 10k seats could partially compensate for losing the larger Civic Centre while avoiding direct competition with the new LeBreton arena. The parking immediately adjacent could become an entertainment district, and the rest quieter, dense residential areas. This plan would also help the justification for Stage 3.

This could be an interesting idea. Would be a loss for Belleville but I'm not sure how big, as from what I've seen the B-Sens aren't a huge draw in a town that's decisively Leafs territory. That being said I'm not sure Andlauer would want to potentially cannibalize ticket sales from the big club by bringing an AHL team to town.

I'd honestly be down to turn part of the CTC lands into a generic Brad/Chad-style entertainment district which are so common in the US and are a guilty pleasure of mine. Tons of bars/restaurants with big patios serving pails of mass-produced beers and tons of sliders, nachos, etc. Throw in some massive TV screens airing every sporting event on the planet, and the piece de resistance: a giant Sportsbook that would rival the Circa in Vegas and generate enough revenue to buy the Leafs and relocate them to Timbuktu. Now that's how you draw people to the suburbs.

[J.OT13]

So if Andlauer can't move the Bulldogs back to Hamilton, I wonder if Andlauer could move them back to Belleville and then move the baby Sens to Kanata. Have all three of his teams close by. Ultimately, I might expect him to sell the Bulldogs to focus on his NHL and AHL teams.

OVG is in conversations with the American Hockey League about a new team in Hamilton, with an announcement expected early next year, Pistore said.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...oak-view-group

[J.OT13]

Interview with Cyril Leeder on TSN 1200. A bit on LeBreton, but nothing new. It's mostly the work going on at the Corel Centre that's interesting.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200...ntre-1.2278250

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So if Andlauer can't move the Bulldogs back to Hamilton, I wonder if Andlauer could move them back to Belleville and then move the baby Sens to Kanata. Have all three of his teams close by. Ultimately, I might expect him to sell the Bulldogs to focus on his NHL and AHL teams.



https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...oak-view-group

Which NHL team would that be? Habs going back to Hamilton from Laval? Or maybe Edmonton moving their team from California?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Which NHL team would that be? Habs going back to Hamilton from Laval? Or maybe Edmonton moving their team from California?

Not sure if I'm reading your question right, so apologies if so. The Bulldogs are the OHL team Andlauer owned that moved from Hamilton to Brantford a couple seasons ago due to renovations at their Hamilton arena. He has since sold the Bulldogs to local ownership, including NHL player Zach Hyman, and they are staying in Brantford.

I've made the suggestion before that after the Sens move to the new arena that the AHL team could move to Kanata. Kanata would be a good AHL market in it's own right, and with a much better facility than what they play in in Belleville. Of course this is all depends on money and what the CTC and surrounding land is actually worth and what they can get for it. I just think CTC would still be a decent secondary venue for the region and a better environment for the AHL team to play.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Which NHL team would that be?

Maybe the Marlies move down the road to Hamilton? I'd hope not, as affordable hockey in Toronto is a nice change of pace.

But now the women's team are sharing the arena with them, and Hamilton's problem with the AHL has arguably been that they had Montreal's farm team, despite being in Leafs territory.

The Toronto>Hamilton move seemed to work quite well for the Rock lacrosse club and Hamilton is really becoming closely knit into the GTA these days.

[Djeffery]

I've said this before on one of the hockey threads on the main Canada forum, but I just don't see what's in it for the Leafs to move the Marlies. MLSE operates the Coliseum, so there is no reason to get rid of one of their tenants and put their players another hour away from the big club. Maybe to an owner like Alex Meruelo (past owner of the Coyotes who still owns the AHL team), attendance matters. I don't think Marlies attendance matters that much to MLSE, and they outdrew Hamilton most of the years they both had AHL teams anyway. Renovated Copp's might give a short boost, but I doubt it would be long term.

Really, I think in the very small odds Hamilton gets an AHL team again, the only one that makes sense is Ottawa for the Andlauer connection, notwithstanding what I said in the above post about Kanata. Dollars matters to him so I doubt it comes about that they move the AHL to Kanata and keep that arena operating. Unless Belleville is springing for a new arena, I could see him being convinced to go back to Hamilton, as inconvenient the location is for the players compared to Belleville. But they are third from the bottom of the league in attendance in Belleville. I can't really see any other option for Hamilton. Buffalo has the Rochester Americans, just as close as Hamilton is, and top third of the league in attendance. Maybe if the NHL expands and the new Houston and Atlanta teams look around, maybe they don't think their non-traditional hockey markets can also support an AHL team so they look to Hamilton. You never know.

[zzptichka]

Apparently Oilers had a farm team in Hamilton in 1996–2003. Could be a good opportunity to move it back from Bakersfield.