Canadian Airport Thread II

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

PD will launch 3 times weekly YQT-YYZ on 16OCT24:

D223 YYZ0720 – 0915YQT 295 246
PD224 YQT1010 – 1157YYZ 295 246

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240813-pdoct24yqt

Given it's launching as part of the winter schedule, I assumed they were targeting sun feed for this flight. But the 0720 YYZ departure pretty much kills that notion.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Given it's launching as part of the winter schedule, I assumed they were targeting sun feed for this flight. But the 0720 YYZ departure pretty much kills that notion.

They have a q400 crew base in Thunder Bay, part of that utilization?

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

They have a q400 crew base in Thunder Bay, part of that utilization?

It's on the E2, though.

In other Porter news, they've extended YOW-YYT to year-round, albeit only 4x weekly in the winter. Running in days 1357 and appears to be well-timed for Florida/Vegas connections.

On the flip side, YOW-YYC/YVR/YEG have all been reduced to 1x daily this winter from the planned 2x daily. There had already been some cuts on YOW-YVR and YOW-YYC from 14x to 12x weekly in September/October.

[rdaner]

Was introduction of a direct flight from YYZ to Casablanca mentioned? Due to surge in immigrants coming from North Africa first to Montreal and now spreading to Toronto. And now everyone in Montreal is going to Morocco on holiday!

[YOWflier]

YOW-LHR returns on March 31, 2025 at 4x-weekly (seasonally) using B789 and the prior 888/889 flight numbers.

[thenoflyzone]

^ It was a matter of time... Glad to see this one back !

Seems they couldn't wait for the A321XLRs to come, and decided to start it with the 787 after all.

Initial PR for the A321XLR order said deliveries were to start in Q1 2024. It is now pushed back to Q3 2025. They expect to have only 3 in house in 2025.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

^ It was a matter of time... Glad to see this one back !

All it took was the threat of BA entering this space and AC came crawling back. AC hates Ottawa and would prefer that we go through Toronto and Montreal for all our travel needs. Can't wait for Porter to expand some of their destinations so I can stop using AC altogether.

Taking YOW-CDG on AF today, BRB!

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

All it took was the threat of BA entering this space and AC came crawling back. AC hates Ottawa and would prefer that we go through Toronto and Montreal for all our travel needs. Can't wait for Porter to expand some of their destinations so I can stop using AC altogether.

Taking YOW-CDG on AF today, BRB!

What threat? BA was never going to serve YOW. They can barely sustain daily YUL on their smallest widebody. When AF started YOW, the chances of BA serving YOW went from 5% to 0%.

AC was always going to come back to YOW-LHR. The timeframe is about right as well. They have valuable LHR slots that need to be used, and constantly leasing them out doesn't maximize revenue. Expect this route to go A321XLR by 2026.

YOW-FRA isn't too far behind either.

[thenoflyzone]

Also interesting to note that the plane will be operating a W pattern.

(YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC)-LHR-YOW-LHR-(YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC). Which is why the flight times are different than what they were pre-pandemic, and also why there are different flight times on mon/thu and wed/sat.

AC889 LHR-YOW is the first flight to resume.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

What threat? BA was never going to serve YOW. They can barely sustain daily YUL on their smallest widebody. When AF started YOW, the chances of BA serving YOW went from 5% to 0%.

AC was always going to come back to YOW-LHR. The timeframe is about right as well. They have valuable LHR slots that need to be used, and constantly leasing them out doesn't maximize revenue. Expect this route to go A321XLR by 2026.

YOW-FRA isn't too far behind either.

There was a rumour that BA was going to do the route, which may have been the kick in the ass AC needed. They clearly wanted to wait for the XLRs but seems like they finally woke up and realized the OAA isn’t going to wait for them while they sleep and shun us.

It also is entirely possible a route could work in YOW and not YUL because competition plays a big role in service viability and YOW has none to LHR. Still holding out that the BA rumours are true and if so, hopefully this doesn’t drive them away.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

What threat? BA was never going to serve YOW. They can barely sustain daily YUL on their smallest widebody. When AF started YOW, the chances of BA serving YOW went from 5% to 0%.

AC was always going to come back to YOW-LHR. The timeframe is about right as well. They have valuable LHR slots that need to be used, and constantly leasing them out doesn't maximize revenue. Expect this route to go A321XLR by 2026.

YOW-FRA isn't too far behind either.

4 times a week on a 789 seems like a defensive move to hold off losing even more Ottawa market share if BA arrived. They’ll have to work hard to fill those unless they also connect people from elsewhere.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

4 times a week on a 789 seems like a defensive move to hold off losing even more Ottawa market share if BA arrived. They’ll have to work hard to fill those unless they also connect people from elsewhere.

Seems defensive to me as well with that March 31 start date. Usually summer seasonal routes are starting end of April/early May. Trying to get a good month in before BA I presume (again, if rumours are true).

[thenoflyzone]

^
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/4...activities.pdf

These are LHR summer season slots we are talking about. They start when the IATA summer season starts, and it is always at the end of March.

Defensive move against AF, sure. I'll buy it.

You can't - and airlines really don't - play defense against an opponent that hasn't even shown up to the game (BA) !

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Seems defensive to me as well with that March 31 start date. Usually summer seasonal routes are starting end of April/early May. Trying to get a good month in before BA I presume (again, if rumours are true).

Or it scuttles what must have been a borderline decision by BA anyway.

If it was a real market opportunity for AC FRA seems like the better move.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Also interesting to note that the plane will be operating a W pattern.

(YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC)-LHR-YOW-LHR-(YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC). Which is why the flight times are different than what they were pre-pandemic, and also why there are different flight times on mon/thu and wed/sat.

AC889 LHR-YOW is the first flight to resume.

Will AC's 789 really sit on the ground in YOW from 15:20 to 20:55 on Wednesday and Saturdays? Possible rotation with YVR or reintroduction of a widebody on a YYZ turn?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by rdaner

Was introduction of a direct flight from YYZ to Casablanca mentioned? Due to surge in immigrants coming from North Africa first to Montreal and now spreading to Toronto. And now everyone in Montreal is going to Morocco on holiday!

Yes. Two pages ago.

Originally Posted by MountainView

Will AC's 789 really sit on the ground in YOW from 15:20 to 20:55 on Wednesday and Saturdays? Possible rotation with YVR or reintroduction of a widebody on a YYZ turn?

You can’t run YVR with that. Not enough time. YYZ rotation could maybe work, but it’s too tight for comfort. A slight delay anywhere will have a rolling effect.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

^
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/4...activities.pdf

These are LHR summer season slots we are talking about. They start when the IATA summer season starts, and it is always at the end of March.

Defensive move against AF, sure. I'll buy it.

You can't - and airlines really don't - play defense against an opponent that hasn't even shown up to the game (BA) !

Given it's 4x weekly, I wonder if AC are still partially leasing out one of their slots 3x/week or if they're spreading out the (as I recall) "use it or lose it 80% minimum usage rule" with say a YYZ slot twice a week (i.e., as a paper exercise two YYZ-LHR slots will be 6x weekly each to bump up the YOW-LHR slot usage also to 6x weekly, even though in reality both YYZ flights are still daily)?

Either way certainly a big boost for YOW's global connectivity.

[Coldrsx]

Some pretty sweet deals out there right now for fall.

Just booked YYC-Rome on WJ for $673 return.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Also interesting to note that the plane will be operating a W pattern.

(YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC)-LHR-YOW-LHR-(YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC). Which is why the flight times are different than what they were pre-pandemic, and also why there are different flight times on mon/thu and wed/sat.

AC889 LHR-YOW is the first flight to resume.

With W pattern, then most definitely a route is going to lose 4x weekly service. And since the flights are in different time, that means maybe 2 routes are going to lose 2x weekly each.

Now to figure out which route is going to have service cut..

First, Mon/Thurs, LHR 1405 ..... 0630+1 LHR, this matches exactly AC865/866 (YUL-LHR)
Then, Wed/Sat, LHR 1240 ..... 0835+1 LHR, the closest match is AC855/856 (YYZ-LHR)

So looks like YYZ/YUL-LHR is going to lose 2x weekly each for the YOW service. And no extra LHR slot will be required.

Originally Posted by MountainView

Will AC's 789 really sit on the ground in YOW from 15:20 to 20:55 on Wednesday and Saturdays? Possible rotation with YVR or reintroduction of a widebody on a YYZ turn?

LHR is tightly slot controlled, there's nothing much AC can do about utilization if they cannot get better slot time for it. They have some planes that stay longer than that at LHR. For instance, YHZ-LHR, the plane arrives LHR at 2100, and departs 1240 on the next day!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

^
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/4...activities.pdf

These are LHR summer season slots we are talking about. They start when the IATA summer season starts, and it is always at the end of March.

Defensive move against AF, sure. I'll buy it.

You can't - and airlines really don't - play defense against an opponent that hasn't even shown up to the game (BA) !

It seems like AC has 20 years of moves against a new or threatened new entrant.

AF seems irrelevant to this as nobody would fly to UK on them and LHR will have very little transfer traffic.