The Vancouver Business Thread

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

You better believe it, cause that's exactly what I'm doing.

Didn't mean to blame them alone however; the province also had a hand in the debacle.

If you are impressed by the current casino, you would have had a full on heart attack if some of the original proposals went through. You talk theatres? How about more than one. Hotel rooms? Over 1000 in the one proposal which would have been Vancouver's biggest. Plus A LOT more. Oh well.

And they JUST fell behind on their construction debt? That's a lot like saying, you bring in enough money for heat, food, and to keep the lights on in your home, but its JUST the mortgage you cant pay. Thats a pretty big problem. And btw even if you somehow remove the debt, those figures are still not that impressive considering you are the only player in the downtown area of a major city. Their are suburban casinos in the middle of nowhere in the States that do much better.

Lol, it's hilarious that your logic doesn't lead you to the conclusion that if Parq were any larger it would be in proportionately more financial trouble.

One or two theatres wouldn't help much if the money launderers are chased away from keeping the lights on in the place.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

You better believe it, cause that's exactly what I'm doing.

Didn't mean to blame them alone however; the province also had a hand in the debacle.

If you are impressed by the current casino, you would have had a full on heart attack if some of the original proposals went through. You talk theatres? How about more than one. Hotel rooms? Over 1000 in the one proposal which would have been Vancouver's biggest. Plus A LOT more. Oh well.

And they JUST fell behind on their construction debt? That's a lot like saying, you bring in enough money for heat, food, and to keep the lights on in your home, but its JUST the mortgage you cant pay. Thats a pretty big problem. And btw even if you somehow remove the debt, those figures are still not that impressive considering you are the only player in the downtown area of a major city. Their are suburban casinos in the middle of nowhere in the States that do much better.

Your solution is to build bigger? Bigger debt? Bigger problems?

I saw plenty of proposals thanks. I'm old enough to remember the waterfront version that was axed long ago.

You'll twist yourself into some serious logic puzzles to blame those filthy Vision Vancouver governments.

[officedweller]

I was surprised that there wasn't a show theatre at The Parq.
That would help drive patrons into all the restaurants they have. As it is now, unless you are a gambler or staying at the hotel, the restaurants there probably aren't on your radar.
That will change as the Plaza of Nations, etc. are built up, but that will take a while.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Lol, it's hilarious that your logic doesn't lead you to the conclusion that if Parq were any larger it would be in proportionately more financial trouble.

One or two theatres wouldn't help much if the money launderers are chased away from keeping the lights on in the place.

Whats hilarious is your lacking the ability to grasp how a larger entertainment complex would do much better than a smaller facility. (there's a reason entities want these things bigger. If you do some research, you'll see that people wanted the same for this proposal also) And it wouldn't be proportionately in more financial trouble. (for the same reasons) ha ha ha.

By that logic if a neighbourhood corner store fails, then large-scale box stores should all fail too right? But they don't, do they? Maybe, just maybe, there's a reason for this.

[misher]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I was surprised that there wasn't a show theatre at The Parq.
That would help drive patrons into all the restaurants they have. As it is now, unless you are a gambler or staying at the hotel, the restaurants there probably aren't on your radar.
That will change as the Plaza of Nations, etc. are built up, but that will take a while.

Restaurants are currently quite busy at night. There “in” with the yippie downtown crowd. That 5th floor roof deck is pretty awesome.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I was surprised that there wasn't a show theatre at The Parq. That would help drive patrons into all the restaurants they have. As it is now, unless you are a gambler or staying at the hotel, the restaurants there probably aren't on your radar.

A theatre would have been great, not just for their business but for Vancouver, which could use more live performance space and entertainment options. But where would you have put such a theatre and all its stage loading requirements? The space constraints are so intense on that site. There was probably some solution but it would have been fairly radical and likely required the deletion of something else.

Regarding the restaurants, I have heard that The Victor (the steak and seafood restaurant fronting onto the rooftop garden) is somewhat of a destination, and that the D6 Bar & Lounge (which also fronts onto the rooftop garden) is popular among a certain demographic.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

the D6 Bar & Lounge (which also fronts onto the rooftop garden) is popular among a certain demographic.

I'm afraid to ask.

[officedweller]

WRT the restaurants, the high end Chinese one closed down and if for special events only, so I assumed the others weren't too busy.
Good to hear there are doing okay.
A theatre wouldn't have needed to be massive, I'm sure they could have planned for one.
I think the ballroom is supposed to be the biggest in Vancouver, so they have large volumes in the podium (i.e. ballroom could have been made smaller to mix up the uses).

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Your solution is to build bigger? Bigger debt? Bigger problems?

I saw plenty of proposals thanks. I'm old enough to remember the waterfront version that was axed long ago.

You'll twist yourself into some serious logic puzzles to blame those filthy Vision Vancouver governments.

Yes, the solution is to build bigger. For these types of projects it almost always is.(if you want to maximize your revenues). You can take on more debt, if you can drive up revenues. That's a basic business premise that is especially true in the gaming industry. Its when governments come in and try to limit people's fun is when you have problems. (as was the case here, mixed in with the provincial government being incredibly short sighted).

Good. I'm glad you remember. It was "axed" because the governments of the day were not business focused. Instead of a free convention centre and entertainment complex, we got the "privilege" of spending $1Billion+ on a convention centre, and got a scaled down hotel and casino project, that has trouble paying its bills.

Ya, I have that pesky habit of needing things to be logic driven rather than blindly following a press clipping that's written by entities that have an agenda to push.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

I'm afraid to ask.

Picture the douchebags who do stuff like this.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by s211

I'm afraid to ask.

I believe all kinds of people go there and it is supposed to be a cool space. But I have heard, anecdotally, that it is especially popular among the stereotypical Yaletown lifestyle crowd or those who appear that way.

[SpongeG]

Has Hootsuite hit its business ceiling in B.C.?

Vancouver’s most recognizable tech company cut jobs last month following earlier efforts to sell the firm

By Tyler Orton | May 7, 2019

Drop the name Hootsuite Inc. at any Vancouver technnology firm’s office and the same questions inevitably bubble to the surface: Will the social media management company go public? Will it be acquired? Or will it continue to forge its own path as a privately held venture?

April 30 layoffs totalling as much as 10% of its 1,000-person global workforce, according to some media reports, may stick a pin in that conversation for the time being.

But in its place come questions about Hootsuite’s future and whether one of Vancouver’s few potential tech anchor firms can regain its darling status.

...

https://biv.com/article/2019/05/has-hoot...M8Lk-j03Z8cjEh0pjFvAECu3--EGqSQO88wDDmac

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nope, didn't say anything like that. The new casino is great. It's the only place that even remotely reminds me of Vegas in Vancouver. You can see from the details that they are making good money, they just overextended on their construction debt. I can't believe you're blaming the city somehow.

The rest of the lower mainland casinos are lame.

The City is partially to blame. The initial proposal made by the Casino company made sure that their investments would be safeguarded by the potential profits to be generated. With the City forcing them to water down their earlier version by a large portion, they were essentially taking a risk coming to Vancouver, but they did it anyway. Casino succeeds in being grand if they want to woo the international crowd. I always believe that a bigger casino with larger hotel/convention/shopping venues would be more of a success in Vancouver. You should pay a visit to the Crown Casino in Melbourne or the Sands in Singapore, and see why ours pales in comparison.

Crown Melborune Shopping Arcade:
https://www.crownmelbourne.com.au/shopping

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Yes, the solution is to build bigger. For these types of projects it almost always is.(if you want to maximize your revenues). You can take on more debt, if you can drive up revenues. That's a basic business premise that is especially true in the gaming industry. Its when governments come in and try to limit people's fun is when you have problems. (as was the case here, mixed in with the provincial government being incredibly short sighted).

Good. I'm glad you remember. It was "axed" because the governments of the day were not business focused. Instead of a free convention centre and entertainment complex, we got the "privilege" of spending $1Billion+ on a convention centre, and got a scaled down hotel and casino project, that has trouble paying its bills.

Ya, I have that pesky habit of needing things to be logic driven rather than blindly following a press clipping that's written by entities that have an agenda to push.

Problem about folks here: we think too small, and hence we achieve little.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

The City is partially to blame. The initial proposal made by the Casino company made sure that their investments would be safeguarded by the potential profits to be generated. With the City forcing them to water down their earlier version by a large portion, they were essentially taking a risk coming to Vancouver, but they did it anyway. Casino succeeds in being grand if they want to woo the international crowd. I always believe that a bigger casino with larger hotel/convention/shopping venues would be more of a success in Vancouver. You should pay a visit to the Crown Casino in Melbourne or the Sands in Singapore, and see why ours pales in comparison.

Problem about folks here: we think too small, and hence we achieve little.

Nobody forced them to take on huge debt. Nobody forced them not to include a theater in their proposal.

Sometimes outsiders don't understand the local market. Tinseltown is a great example of that.

[SpongeG]

the Crown casino in Melbourne was amazing. It has shopping like Louis Vuttion, Prada, Burberry and GStar, Guess etc. It has a food court area with McDonalds and family options. A movie theatre, a concert venue, night clubs a light and fire show along its riverwalk, it was pretty cool to see without needing to gamble.

I must say though that the slot games were pretty awful. All the casinos in Australia the slots were just bad.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Vin

The City is partially to blame. The initial proposal made by the Casino company made sure that their investments would be safeguarded by the potential profits to be generated. With the City forcing them to water down their earlier version by a large portion, they were essentially taking a risk coming to Vancouver, but they did it anyway. Casino succeeds in being grand if they want to woo the international crowd. I always believe that a bigger casino with larger hotel/convention/shopping venues would be more of a success in Vancouver. You should pay a visit to the Crown Casino in Melbourne or the Sands in Singapore, and see why ours pales in comparison.

Crown Melborune Shopping Arcade:
https://www.crownmelbourne.com.au/shopping



Problem about folks here: we think too small, and hence we achieve little.

Totally agreed. Most do not see Vancouver as a global city and want to go back to/maintain our insignificance. Despite not owning a single item of Gucci or Hermès I’m quite happy to see these stores here as they bring the whole city up a level.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the Crown casino in Melbourne was amazing. It has shopping like Louis Vuttion, Prada, Burberry and GStar, Guess etc. It has a food court area with McDonalds and family options. A movie theatre, a concert venue, night clubs a light and fire show along its riverwalk, it was pretty cool to see without needing to gamble.

I must say though that the slot games were pretty awful. All the casinos in Australia the slots were just bad.

The really sad part is that we could have had the exact same thing here with the casino being on the waterfront (either one). And as you point out, there is a whole host of activities available without having to gamble at any of them. Its just that the gambling attracts people to the complex, which in turn drums up business that brings out others who don't have any interest in gambling, but come in and spend money on shows, shopping, dining, accommodations etc etc. If it was built on the Plaza of Nations site, you would have seen an extreme transformation of the seawall on that side that would have been a draw for both residents as well as tourists. A sad tale indeed.

But then again, you might have locals driving in from other municipalities to take all this in, and would require driving into our downtown which is a big no-no for big brother Vancouver City Hall, so we get something that is not much better what people already have in their own communities and as a result, keeps them away and you get situations like this where the casino has trouble paying its bills.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Picture the douchebags who do stuff like this.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Anybody who's actually been to the Sands in Singapore - even just the mall - would be able to confirm that we're nowhere close to being ready for our own. Damn thing could swallow all of Robson and Metrotown and still have room left over.

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The really sad part is that we could have had the exact same thing here with the casino being on the waterfront (either one). And as you point out, there is a whole host of activities available without having to gamble at any of them. Its just that the gambling attracts people to the complex, which in turn drums up business that brings out others who don't have any interest in gambling, but come in and spend money on shows, shopping, dining, accommodations etc etc. If it was built on the Plaza of Nations site, you would have seen an extreme transformation of the seawall on that side that would have been a draw for both residents as well as tourists. A sad tale indeed.

But then again, you might have locals driving in from other municipalities to take all this in, and would require driving into our downtown which is a big no-no for big brother Vancouver City Hall, so we get something that is not much better what people already have in their own communities and as a result, keeps them away and you get situations like this where the casino has trouble paying its bills.

Again, $20 million of profit against $170 million of revenue. Construction debt aside, that's a profit margin of almost twelve percent. Maybe a bigger casino would've outstripped the higher construction and operating costs, maybe it wouldn't, but what they have right now definitely works.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nobody forced them to take on huge debt. Nobody forced them not to include a theater in their proposal.

Sometimes outsiders don't understand the local market. Tinseltown is a great example of that.

Pretty much - a population of 2.4 million and an affordability crisis means we're nowhere near "too big to fail" status.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The really sad part is that we could have had the exact same thing here with the casino being on the waterfront (either one). And as you point out, there is a whole host of activities available without having to gamble at any of them. Its just that the gambling attracts people to the complex, which in turn drums up business that brings out others who don't have any interest in gambling, but come in and spend money on shows, shopping, dining, accommodations etc etc. If it was built on the Plaza of Nations site, you would have seen an extreme transformation of the seawall on that side that would have been a draw for both residents as well as tourists. A sad tale indeed.

But then again, you might have locals driving in from other municipalities to take all this in, and would require driving into our downtown which is a big no-no for big brother Vancouver City Hall, so we get something that is not much better what people already have in their own communities and as a result, keeps them away and you get situations like this where the casino has trouble paying its bills.

yeah. I think another problem with the Parq is there is really only one entrance. They should have one next to BC Place for easy access from Robson Street and BC Place etc. The one in Melbourne has multiple entrances and then the casino gambling part was self contained and had a few entrances inside so all around the casino floor area families could go in and look around, shop eat, go to movies etc. without having to see or go near the casino part. They had a family-friendly food court with fast food places and a fancy food court that families could also go to and then the restaurants and bars etc were all accessible without having to be in the casino, whereas the Parq I think all but one of the eating places are within the casino and therefore aren't family friendly.

Maybe once more retail moves into the projects next to the parq it could help attract people down that way. Vancouver also has a lot more casinos which are nicer, I think the Hard Rock and the Villa GRand are both nicer than the Parq. Riverrock is ok but I find the flow to be really awkward, the Parq does have a nice loop you can walk around.