[Halifax] Gorsebrook Park (1048 Wellington) | 30 m | 10 fl | Completed

[Dmajackson]

As mentioned in General Updates & News the proposed towers for 1034-1056 Wellington Street have moved into the public consultation process.

Case 18565 Details

Application Package (floor plans, renderings, studies, rationale, ect)

[fenwick16]

Here are a few images taken from the pdf file - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/18565ApplicationPackage.pdf

It looks like a decent project and it doesn't look out of place next to the other mid-rise towers.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Here are a few images taken from the pdf file - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/18565ApplicationPackage.pdf

It looks like a decent project and it doesn't look out of place next to the other mid-rise towers.

The "at grade" street level interaction looks fine with this. No podium with a blank wall. Lots of open balconies, and it appears like there may be outdoor space with the ground floor units too. No worse than a row of townhouses, which had been touted as the ideal?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

The "at grade" street level interaction looks fine with this. No podium with a blank wall. Lots of open balconies, and it appears like there may be outdoor space with the ground floor units too. No worse than a row of townhouses, which had been touted as the ideal?

From a contextual perspective; the height is fine given the adjacent buildings - which establish a height profile for the street. That said, I have a small problem with the podium - I think it's one floor too high given the podium of the 'round' apartment building.

So I think I'd look to make that change, but aside from that I don't really have too much of an issue with it. The only thing I'd push beyond that would be a green roof and a few more trees on the site if possible and then giver.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Here are a few images taken from the pdf file - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/18565ApplicationPackage.pdf

It looks like a decent project and it doesn't look out of place next to the other mid-rise towers.

Regardless of the point of views being discussed recently... there is a ton of peninsular land in this area that isn't being used.

[TheNovaScotian]

Somehow 13 stories is even too much in this city...



[/QUOTE]

Compared to this?



It isn't even a contest which is the better option here

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

Somehow 13 stories is even too much in this city...

I'm gonna be that guy again and leap to Halifax's defence on that point. Buildings of this height meet with opposition in these kinds of neighbourhoods anywhere in the country...not a Halifax thing at all.

Honestly, if anything, developers increasingly seem to run the show in Halifax. The number of projects cancelled or dramatically curtailed due to citizen opposition in recent years is...well, I was gonna say small, but is there a single example? Even if there are a handful, there are far more examples to the contrary.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'm gonna be that guy again and leap to Halifax's defence on that point. Buildings of this height meet with opposition in these kinds of neighbourhoods anywhere in the country...not a Halifax thing at all.

Honestly, if anything, developers increasingly seem to run the show in Halifax. The number of projects cancelled or dramatically curtailed due to citizen opposition in recent years is...well, I was gonna say small, but is there a single example? Even if there are a handful, there are far more examples to the contrary.

Agreed. The ongoing narrative that Halifax is just the worst place ever, anywhere gets rather draining.

As I've pointed out here many times, Halifax might appear height-phobic on the surface, but somehow we've managed to build probably one of the biggest stocks of mid-and-highrise buildings of any city of comparable size / geography on the continent.

I wish people could learn to appreciate just how well Halifax is doing, even while cheering for more.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Honestly, if anything, developers increasingly seem to run the show in Halifax. The number of projects cancelled or dramatically curtailed due to citizen opposition in recent years is...well, I was gonna say small, but is there a single example? Even if there are a handful, there are far more examples to the contrary.

There have been occasional examples, like the Port of Wines proposal (I don't remember if that was even really due to citizen opposition or if it was just kind of arbitrarily not-approved), but cases like these are very much the minority these days.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Hali87

There have been occasional examples, like the Port of Wines proposal (I don't remember if that was even really due to citizen opposition or if it was just kind of arbitrarily not-approved), but cases like these are very much the minority these days.

As I recall it was something like double the allowable height. I don't even get the logic behind proposing such a thing. We can argue about whether the height rules are too restrictive (in the Port of Wines case, I do think more height should be allowed on that site) but when developers propose things they know are in flagrant violation of a recently adopted design manual, I mean, whaddya expect?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'm gonna be that guy again and leap to Halifax's defence on that point. Buildings of this height [URL="http://calgaryherald.com/business/commercial-real-estate/architect-quits-controversial-kensington-development-headed-to-council-monday"]meet with opposition

There was quite a back story to the opposition on this one and history involved. Hillhurst is an area I have done a lot of work in; two of the new buildings going up I was involved in.

The Area Redevelopment Plan took 3 years and had lots of input from residents the problem is that once it was passed they felt it was set in stone. This particular site had already been redesignated (rezoned) to go up to 8 stories and the application was asking for even more. The 8 stories was okay under the plan - but more was beyond the plan.

There was also some character issues of the property owner - I won't get into them but needless to say a lot of 'trust' issues. I'd be happy to give you the more 'non-politically correct' comments in a private message.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

There was also some character issues of the property owner - I won't get into them but needless to say a lot of 'trust' issues. I'd be happy to give you the more 'non-politically correct' comments in a private message.

Sure. I always try to keep abreast of my hometown developments...

[Dmajackson]

The Public Information Meeting has been scheduled for November 20th, 2013 at 7pm at Saint Mary's University Atrium Room.

[Dmajackson]

Apparently 125 people showed up to the public information meeting. Almost all of them opposed the project. I wish I could link to the article because some of the comments are actually quite funny.

Source : "An Earful For Tsimiklis on Wellington Project" (November 20th, 2013) - AllNovaScotia.com

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Apparently 125 people showed up to the public information meeting. Almost all of them opposed the project.

This amount of opposition toward 13 storeys?... Seriously?

I hope the buildings get approved anyway.
Do anti-development Haligonians residing on the peninsula not realise they're on a peninsula?

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

This amount of opposition toward 13 storeys?... Seriously?

I hope the buildings get approved anyway.
Do anti-development Haligonians residing on the peninsula not realise they're on a peninsula?

The South End Detail Area Plan and the Peninsula South MPS and LUBs provide guidance for where height and density should be considered. That was/is going to be expanded under teh Centre Plan and Corridor Study. That does not mean height is going to be allowed every where, all the time.

There will be residential R1/R2 neighbourhoods that will continue to function, and not be rezoned for height... the peninsula is big and HRM can hit all its growth targets easily without starting to put 12 story towers on Oakland or Cedar or Cork or Leeds. The whole peninsula is not now, will not be zoned highrise. If anything the Centre Plan will provide clarity - say "height here" and "low rise" here, and make it much harder to put towers in low rise residential zones.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

There will be residential R1/R2 neighbourhoods that will continue to function, and not be rezoned for height... the peninsula is big and HRM can hit all its growth targets easily without starting to put 12 story towers on Oakland or Cedar or Cork or Leeds. The whole peninsula is not now, will not be zoned highrise.

I agree with this. I've often argued against the idea that it's "natural" for our older housing stick in R1/R2 neighbourhoods to necessarily be turned over into mid-rise--once a city reaches a certain point in its built form, there seems to be a certain permanence to the housing stock. Hence why Toronto's defining Victorians or Brooklyn's traditional brownstones aren't disappearing any time soon.

At the same time, it's frustrating to see the overreactions of certain NIMBYs who irrationally think that moderately tall buildings will deal a death blow to their neighbourhoods--if properly designed, even very tall buildings can fit quite seamlessly into existing communities, but there's still an entrenched resistance that's not really very logical.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Is there any other source to the information that can be linked directly?

There are a lot of assumptions being made here and it would perhaps serve the discussion well if there were some actual numbers/comments (i.e. percentage of opposition and reasons) by which to draw conclusions. I don't think we make ourselves look good by always assuming ignorant NIMBYism without checking the facts first.

Just my 2¢, which I'm sure some of you are tiring of, but there it is.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

the peninsula is big and HRM can hit all its growth targets easily without starting to put 12 story towers on Oakland or Cedar or Cork or Leeds. The whole peninsula is not now, will not be zoned highrise.

Even though I used to suck at getting your name right, I certainly have paid attention to your posts. I respect your opinions and like a lot of your ideas. I admire your commitment to the city.

You know much more about these city planning cases than I do, so I am prefacing this as more of a request to correct what I'm not understanding about the process you're using as evidence.
I'm not sure how realistic HRM's targets are, nor am I certain that HRM's plans are broadly considering the unavoidable financial impact of sprawled infrastructure and public services debt if we do not achieve an adequate level of density throughout the city within a given frame of time. Yes, we assign numbers to the titles of these plans and give them legality for a duration -- but that says nothing about the density numbers we need to be hitting because of projected debt we will incur if we do not.

Hasn't the approach to density during the development of this Central Plan been lite on numbers and, instead, more reliant on residential consensus building?

Are we challenging ourselves or are we doing something politically safe? Do you have confidence in HRM's density targets?

I'm still trying to get over my bewilderment from so many people opposing 13 storeys...

It's not as though this proposal was a surprise replica of Purdy's Wharf.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

I'm still trying to get over my bewilderment from so many people opposing 13 storeys...

Check out these guys in Toronto. They succeeded in forcing the city to draft a whole new planning regime for their one downtown street, so intense was their opposition to a six storey condo that will replace a parking lot. They believe their trendy strip of restaurants and bars is somehow super special and should be protected from the encroachment of evil condo dwellers, or anything over four storeys. They even held this supremely annoying sit-in.

The real annoyance is that these are mostly very well-to-do youngish professionals with the financial resources to buy detached houses downtown, who themselves led a wave of gentrification in recent years, completely changing the face of the neighbourhood, which was for decades a working-class immigrant area. Now they're upset that the newly desirable neighbourhood is developing further.

So if downtown dwellers in Toronto genuinely believe a six storey building will destroy their community--enough that they've succeeded in forcing the city to kowtow to them--I'm not too surprised that Haligonians are frothing at the mouth over 13 storeys.