Completely random brain droppings about Winnipeg

[James Bond Agent 007]

And, by extension, some musings about Canadian cities, and Canada in general.

As I said in the Canadian-German cities thread, I'm presently in Winnipeg on vacation and have some thoughts. Did a ton of driving through the city today. Only briefly drove through downtown a couple times, will park my car and walk around downtown tomorrow.

Here goes ...

1. Generally, the south side is nice, and the north side not so much. In fact, the southern ~1/3 or so is, to me, what comes to mind when one says "Canadian city:" a neat and tidy, suburby-area, but denser suburbs with lots of apartments. Maybe that's because my main frame of reference is Vancouver, in particular outside of downtown. I could easily see myself living just about anywhere in the south end. The north side ... well, let's just say that much of it looks like the worst parts of American cities - certainly the parts just north of downtown. I drove up Main St just north of downtown and it was filled with druggies, mentally ill people and homeless. At a certain point the north side got better after you got past Kildonan Park, but it was mostly development still under construction up there.

2. The first place I went to this morning was the "Fort Whyte Alive" park. That alone makes it worth visiting Winnipeg. My hotel is right next to it. It's a big prairie park with multiple visitor centers and a herd of buffalo (which I could only see from a distance). In fact, this made me think Winnipeg is underestimated as a nature tourist destination. There aren't any mountains but there are lakes and rivers, prairies and forests. There were tons of kids there, many of them in school or church groups, and it's clearly a great place for kids to learn about, and experience, nature. They should try to carve out another 3-5 parks just like it surrounding Winnipeg.

3. The Canadian habit of cladding so many houses in stucco is utterly terrible. I think maybe half the houses in the city are clad in this rough stucco which ages atrociously. It seems to have become more common in the last 40 years or so, judging by the age of the houses, but even a lot of older houses are clad in the stuff. I think I noticed this sometimes when I went to Vancouver. Don't know if this is the case in other Canadian cities, but it's a plague in Winnipeg.

4. A lot of people don't seem to care one iota about their lawns. This seems particularly true in the newer subdivisions. The lots tend to be very small in the new subdivisions, and as far as I can tell the overwhelming majority of people living in these new subdivisions are immigrants. Did some of these immigrants not get the memo that you're supposed to mow your lawn? Or something? But even elsewhere, there are a ton of yards which are little more than mowed weeds. I was wondering if the cold climate hinders some of the nicer kinds of grass from growing and you have little choice but to grow junkier looking varieties of grass, or something.

5. The combination of #3 and #4 made a lot of neighborhoods look worse than they actually are.

6. This has nothing to do with Winnipeg itself, but the quality of the sunlight on sunny days when you get this far north is considerably different than when you live farther south. I found this extremely noticeable within about 15 minutes after driving out of the airport yesterday, and I really think it has a bigger effect on people than anyone realizes. In fact I wonder if it should be a big research topic among health and psychology scientists. I will extrapolate on that later.

More later, going to get something to eat right now ...

[craigs]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

6. This has nothing to do with Winnipeg itself, but the quality of the sunlight on sunny days when you get this far north is considerably different than when you live farther south. I found this extremely noticeable within about 15 minutes after driving out of the airport yesterday, and I really think it has a bigger effect on people than anyone realizes. In fact I wonder if it should be a big research topic among health and psychology scientists. I will extrapolate on that later.

I'm curious about what you are noticing regarding the quality of the light there.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by craigs

I'm curious about what you are noticing regarding the quality of the light there.

In the summer sky, this is what the paths of the sun look like (roughly) between Kansas City and Winnipeg:



When you start getting this far north, the sun in the summer is lower (as it is all year), but its path is longer. That's why you get such early sunrises and late sunsets this far north in the summer.

But the key issue is that it's lower in the sky.

Yesterday I was driving out of the airport, and it was only 3pm and already there were very long shadows as if it were sunset. Yet, there was still more than 6 hours until it actually got dark! As I write this it's 8:45 and still fairly light out. In KC at this time of year it's just about dark.

Even today when I was driving around at 12 noon, the shadows were still somewhat long. I'd say they were similar to what you'd get in KC at around 4 pm.

Think about that: This far north, almost the entire (summer) day consists of light quality that looks like "sunrise" or "sunset."

Most people find sunrises and sunsets to be relaxing. My guess is that's at least partly to do with melatonin production. When you get all these big patches of semi-dark (shadows), it encourages melatonin production, which makes people relaxed.

In KC at this time of year, the sun is very high in the sky and beating down hard on you. There's not as much shade. At least for me, that makes me stressed. I've always found darkness to be relaxing. In my home, once the sun goes down I turn most of the lights off in my house because it relaxes me for a while before I go to bed.

Yesterday while driving from the airport, I found myself much more relaxed than usual for no particular reason (especially since I had just gotten off 6 hours of being in a plane or airports). I was observing all the long shadows, and it occurred to me that all these long shadows were what was making me feel relaxed.

Everything simply looked different than the same time of day in KC. And more relaxing.

My theory is that people living this far north will tend to be more relaxed than ones living farther south, for all these reasons (maybe it doesn't apply to everyone). I also suspect that people like Canadians and others who live this far north don't notice it, it's just "normal" to them.

I kinda noticed this when I was living in Seattle and, especially, Spokane but didn't think much of it. In Seattle, the Cascades block some of the sunrise, and the Olympics block some of the sunset, so even though it's pretty far north, the sunrises and sunsets are blocked off prematurely. Spokane doesn't have nearly the same kind of mountains so it didn't affect the sun as much.

But right now I'm about 2-3 degrees latitude farther north than either Seattle or Spokane, and it's flat as a pancake with no mountains to block either the sunrise or sunset.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

In the summer sky, this is what the paths of the sun look like (roughly) between Kansas City and Winnipeg:



When you start getting this far north, the sun in the summer is lower (as it is all year), but its path is longer. That's why you get such early sunrises and late sunsets this far north in the summer.

But the key issue is that it's lower in the sky.

Yesterday I was driving out of the airport, and it was only 3pm and already there were very long shadows as if it were sunset. Yet, there was still more than 6 hours until it actually got dark! As I write this it's 8:45 and still fairly light out. In KC at this time of year it's just about dark.

Even today when I was driving around at 12 noon, the shadows were still somewhat long. I'd say they were similar to what you'd get in KC at around 4 pm.

Think about that: This far north, almost the entire (summer) day consists of light quality that looks like "sunrise" or "sunset."

Most people find sunrises and sunsets to be relaxing. My guess is that's at least partly to do with melatonin production. When you get all these big patches of semi-dark (shadows), it encourages melatonin production, which makes people relaxed.

In KC at this time of year, the sun is very high in the sky and beating down hard on you. There's not as much shade. At least for me, that makes me stressed. I've always found darkness to be relaxing. In my home, once the sun goes down I turn most of the lights off in my house because it relaxes me for a while before I go to bed.

Yesterday while driving from the airport, I found myself much more relaxed than usual for no particular reason (especially since I had just gotten off 6 hours of being in a plane or airports). I was observing all the long shadows, and it occurred to me that all these long shadows were what was making me feel relaxed.

Everything simply looked different than the same time of day in KC. And more relaxing.

My theory is that people living this far north will tend to be more relaxed than ones living farther south, for all these reasons (maybe it doesn't apply to everyone). I also suspect that people like Canadians and others who live this far north don't notice it, it's just "normal" to them.

I kinda noticed this when I was living in Seattle and, especially, Spokane but didn't think much of it. In Seattle, the Cascades block some of the sunrise, and the Olympics block some of the sunset, so even though it's pretty far north, the sunrises and sunsets are blocked off prematurely. Spokane doesn't have nearly the same kind of mountains so it didn't affect the sun as much.

But right now I'm about 2-3 degrees latitude farther north than either Seattle or Spokane, and it's flat as a pancake with no mountains to block either the sunrise or sunset.

Yes. I was in Anchorage a few weeks ago and the sun was never as high in the sky like it is here in Houston at this time of year but the sun was out MUCH longer.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by JManc

Yes. I was in Anchorage a few weeks ago and the sun was never as high in the sky like it is here in Houston at this time of year but the sun was out MUCH longer.

JManc, how many times have you been to Alaska now? I've wanted to visit Anchorage since I was a kid. I think I saw a photo in an encyclopedia. Remember pre Wikipedia days? Microsoft Encarta seemed like a big deal transitioning away from heavy paper encyclopedias

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by JManc

Yes. I was in Anchorage a few weeks ago and the sun was never as high in the sky like it is here in Houston at this time of year but the sun was out MUCH longer.

It's 7:18 as I type this, and it's looked like "sunset" for about the last 5 hours.

Another weird experience I've had is the mornings. Both mornings so far I've been woken up sometime early in the morning but didn't look at the clock, figuring it was maybe 6am or something, then went back to sleep. Then I would wake up some hours later, thinking it was at least 9am but I had set my alarm for 8:30 just to make sure I got up reasonably early, but the alarm hadn't rung yet so I was wondering what was going on. Then I finally looked at the clock and it's like 7am. So the sun rising early is really messing with my internal clock.

I always had that problem in Seattle and got annoyed by it after a while. But it's worse here.

[IluvATX]

Originally Posted by JManc

Yes. I was in Anchorage a few weeks ago and the sun was never as high in the sky like it is here in Houston at this time of year but the sun was out MUCH longer.

The effect of the sun being lower in the sky is that you get hot much quicker as the sun is shining on your whole body instead of just your head. I saw something that the actual body feel of the temperature can be like 15-20 degrees warmer at higher latitudes.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by IluvATX

The effect of the sun being lower in the sky is that you get hot much quicker as the sun is shining on your whole body instead of just your head. I saw something that the actual body feel of the temperature can be like 15-20 degrees warmer at higher latitudes.

I haven't noticed that. But then, it's been fairly cool while I was here.

On Thursday there were thunderstorms early in the morning and it was muggy with on and off cloudiness, but that's been the only day with relatively bad weather.

Anyway, it's nice out again today and I'm headed to Whiteshell Provincial Park. Will probably take up most of the day. I wanna see a moose!!!

[JManc]

Originally Posted by IluvATX

The effect of the sun being lower in the sky is that you get hot much quicker as the sun is shining on your whole body instead of just your head. I saw something that the actual body feel of the temperature can be like 15-20 degrees warmer at higher latitudes.

I noticed that. I was walking around downtown and had to take sweatshirt off because I was getting hot even though it was about 65-70 degrees.

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It's 7:18 as I type this, and it's looked like "sunset" for about the last 5 hours

Yes it "looks" like a winter sky even though it's summer. That was my take. I've only been in AK in the winter and mid spring so that was a first for me.

Originally Posted by Wigs

JManc, how many times have you been to Alaska now? I've wanted to visit Anchorage since I was a kid. I think I saw a photo in an encyclopedia. Remember pre Wikipedia days? Microsoft Encarta seemed like a big deal transitioning away from heavy paper encyclopedias

I've been there about 6 or 7 times probably again this fall. My wife has to go for work 4-5x a year and I've been tagging along since I was laid off from my job. Anchorage itself is rather meh as a city but it's surrounded by absolute breathtaking natural scenery.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Most people find sunrises and sunsets to be relaxing.

I just Googled this and got this AI answer:

https://www.google.com/search?client...to+be+relaxing

Yes, most people find sunrises and sunsets relaxing due to psychological and physiological factors, including the connection to nature, the release of mood-boosting serotonin, the induction of awe and gratitude, and the natural transition they signal in the daily cycle. Watching these daily natural phenomena is a form of self-care that can reduce stress and improve overall well-being.

Psychological & Emotional Benefits

Reduces stress: .
Immersing yourself in natural beauty like a sunrise or sunset can reduce stress levels and put you in a state of "soft fascination," which is mentally stimulating but also calming.

Boosts mood:.
The visual display of colors can trigger the release of dopamine, a feel-good neurotransmitter, and the exposure to sunlight increases serotonin, which helps improve mood and focus.

Promotes mindfulness:.
These natural displays encourage mindfulness, helping you to pause, reflect on life's beauty, and appreciate the present moment.

Evokes awe and gratitude:.
Sunsets and sunrises can evoke feelings of awe and wonder, which in turn can increase positive emotions, foster gratitude, and improve one's overall mood and well-being.

Physiological Benefits

Regulates circadian rhythm:
The dimming and brightening light of sunsets and sunrises helps to regulate your body's natural sleep-wake cycle, also known as the circadian rhythm.

Provides a natural cue for relaxation:
A sunset signals the end of the day, helping your nervous system relax and signaling a transition into a more restful state.

Supports vitamin D production:
Exposure to sunlight during a sunrise can increase vitamin D production, which is important for mood regulation.

Why people connect with them

Aesthetic appeal:
The unique colors and beautiful, fleeting nature of sunrises and sunsets are inherently pleasing to the eye.

Symbolism:
Sunrises represent new beginnings and opportunities, while sunsets symbolize closure and reflection, allowing people to process the day's experiences.

Connection to nature:
Engaging with these daily natural phenomena strengthens your connection to the natural world, which is known to have profound benefits for mental and physical health.

So I wasn't just imagining things when I said:

Yesterday while driving from the airport, I found myself much more relaxed than usual for no particular reason (especially since I had just gotten off 6 hours of being in a plane or airports). I was observing all the long shadows, and it occurred to me that all these long shadows were what was making me feel relaxed.

I am absolutely convinced this needs to be a major research topic.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

In the summer sky, this is what the paths of the sun look like (roughly) between Kansas City and Winnipeg:



When you start getting this far north, the sun in the summer is lower (as it is all year), but its path is longer. That's why you get such early sunrises and late sunsets this far north in the summer.

But the key issue is that it's lower in the sky.

Yesterday I was driving out of the airport, and it was only 3pm and already there were very long shadows as if it were sunset. Yet, there was still more than 6 hours until it actually got dark! As I write this it's 8:45 and still fairly light out. In KC at this time of year it's just about dark.

Even today when I was driving around at 12 noon, the shadows were still somewhat long. I'd say they were similar to what you'd get in KC at around 4 pm.

Think about that: This far north, almost the entire (summer) day consists of light quality that looks like "sunrise" or "sunset."

Most people find sunrises and sunsets to be relaxing. My guess is that's at least partly to do with melatonin production. When you get all these big patches of semi-dark (shadows), it encourages melatonin production, which makes people relaxed.

In KC at this time of year, the sun is very high in the sky and beating down hard on you. There's not as much shade. At least for me, that makes me stressed. I've always found darkness to be relaxing. In my home, once the sun goes down I turn most of the lights off in my house because it relaxes me for a while before I go to bed.

Yesterday while driving from the airport, I found myself much more relaxed than usual for no particular reason (especially since I had just gotten off 6 hours of being in a plane or airports). I was observing all the long shadows, and it occurred to me that all these long shadows were what was making me feel relaxed.

Everything simply looked different than the same time of day in KC. And more relaxing.

My theory is that people living this far north will tend to be more relaxed than ones living farther south, for all these reasons (maybe it doesn't apply to everyone). I also suspect that people like Canadians and others who live this far north don't notice it, it's just "normal" to them.

I kinda noticed this when I was living in Seattle and, especially, Spokane but didn't think much of it. In Seattle, the Cascades block some of the sunrise, and the Olympics block some of the sunset, so even though it's pretty far north, the sunrises and sunsets are blocked off prematurely. Spokane doesn't have nearly the same kind of mountains so it didn't affect the sun as much.

But right now I'm about 2-3 degrees latitude farther north than either Seattle or Spokane, and it's flat as a pancake with no mountains to block either the sunrise or sunset.

growing up in central FL until my teens, i noticed this same thing moving from there to atlanta. (and again from atlanta to detroit) midday is blindingly bright in FL, bright but noticably less so in atlanta, all else being the same. (level of cloud cover, time of day)

[someone123]

The stucco is more a Western Canada thing than a Canada thing. Vancouver also has some stucco and that pressed on rock stuff but you don't see it everywhere across the country.

The regions are generally pretty different and, IMO, it would be hard to extrapolate to a region (BC, Prairies, Ontario, Quebec, Atlantic, territories) you haven't been to from others. You're not going to be able to get a feel for Quebec by visiting Manitoba for example.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by someone123

The stucco is more a Western Canada thing than a Canada thing. Vancouver also has some stucco and that pressed on rock stuff but you don't see it everywhere across the country.

The regions are generally pretty different and, IMO, it would be hard to extrapolate to a region (BC, Prairies, Ontario, Quebec, Atlantic, territories) you haven't been to from others. You're not going to be able to get a feel for Quebec by visiting Manitoba for example.

I was wondering that. Thanks.

Note to non-prairie Canadians: DO NOT use stucco cladding on your houses. It ages terribly.

[someone123]

Another minor point: the West is farther north than populated areas in the East. The farthest south point in Ontario is around the California-Oregon border. Of course this difference won't be like Edmonton vs. Miami, but 5-10 degrees of latitude does make a bit of a difference.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by someone123

Another minor point: the West is farther north than populated areas in the East. The farthest south point in Ontario is around the California-Oregon border. Of course this difference won't be like Edmonton vs. Miami, but 5-10 degrees of latitude does make a bit of a difference.

True. I should visit Edmonton in late June someday and see what it's like!

[craigs]

Originally Posted by someone123

Another minor point: the West is farther north than populated areas in the East. The farthest south point in Ontario is around the California-Oregon border. Of course this difference won't be like Edmonton vs. Miami, but 5-10 degrees of latitude does make a bit of a difference.

The California-Oregon border is pretty far north by American standards.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by craigs

The California-Oregon border is pretty far north by American standards.

It is farther north than some American cities like Seattle, Minneapolis, or Boston.

But the numbers look like this:

Miami - 25.8N
LA - 34.1N
Toronto - 43.7N
Edmonton - 53.6N

Toronto is actually a bit closer to LA in latitude than Edmonton (the farthest north major Canadian city)! The 49th parallel is the border in the west, but it runs north of all the populated areas on the eastern side of the country. It is most of the way up Newfoundland. This is often not obvious on the most common maps of Canada that use a projection that shifts land northward as you go farther east.

In summer or in winter, the difference between Southern Ontario and Edmonton is very noticeable. Not just longer/shorter days but the angle of the sun and quality of the light. Edmonton has a very long summer twilight.

[James Bond Agent 007]

7. Birds: There are a lot of seagulls here (they're very rare in Kansas City). I presume that's because of all the lakes? I also have seen only 1 House sparrow and just 2 Starlings so far. I did see 2 magpies in a shopping center parking lot across the street from me. I've never seen magpies in a parking lot before. Also, some of the "crows" I've seen look pretty big, I think they might even be Ravens.

8. A short while ago I went to this outlet mall here. There were only 2 empty storefronts, one was a Sak's "Off 5th" store that was quite big, and the other was a very small storefront (might have been a jewelry store or something). Been a while since I've seen a mall with so few vacancies. Also, there was a fair amount of people in there for a Thursday night.

9. It seems like half the population here consists of immigrants. Gotta be close, at least.

10. These two buildings here looked kinda cool. It would be neat to have a whole bunch of towers like that lining that road in the same area, would make a cool-looking "gateway" to the city from the south.

11. The Red River looks like it's kinda shallow.

12. There are two good bookstore chains: Chapters and Indigo. In the US we've long ago been reduced to just one: Barnes & Noble.

13. The traffic at rush hour is horrendous. Could be some of the worst I've experienced. Some of these major roads are just screaming to have streetcars or some sort of light rail along them. Though I suppose at least that shows that a lot of people are still working in offices downtown, as opposed to telecommuting.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

12. There are two good bookstore chains: Chapters and Indigo. In the US we've long ago been reduced to just one: Barnes & Noble.

Unfortunately... we've been reduced to one as well. Chapters and Indigo are the same thing. They were separate companies but Chapters was bought Indigo maybe 20 years or so ago. They also own Coles, another major book chain which generally had smaller stores.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Unfortunately... we've been reduced to one as well. Chapters and Indigo are the same thing. They were separate companies but Chapters was bought Indigo maybe 20 years or so ago. They also own Coles, another major book chain which generally had smaller stores.

Really? I see.

Well, at least it gives the illusion that it's two different chains.