CF Pacific Centre Developments

[Vin]

Sure seems like a heck of a long wait before Nordstrom would open. In the meantime, I hope to see a new announcement of a large-format retail coming to downtown Vancouver. Doesn't need to be lux, mid-range is OK.

[trofirhen]

Sure seems like a heck of a long wait before Nordstrom would open. In the meantime, I hope to see a new announcement of a large-format retail coming to downtown Vancouver. Doesn't need to be lux, mid-range is OK.
Where would you most probably imagine seeing it located?
In the Central Shopping District (Bay, Nordstrom) or elsewhere?

[connect2source]

Given that we're a year from Nordstrom Pacific Centre opening, does anyone know when the mall extension to Robson, under Nordstrom is scheduled to open? My guess is that it would precede Nordstrom.

[trofirhen]

Given that we're a year from Nordstrom Pacific Centre opening, does anyone know when the mall extension to Robson, under Nordstrom is scheduled to open? My guess is that it would precede Nordstrom.
Do you have access to any plans or renders of the mall expansion? Thanks. :)

[Locked In]

Do you have access to any plans or renders of the mall expansion? Thanks. :)

Go to the website ( http://www.725granville.com/Pages/default.aspx ) - click on Retail Plans and Renderings.

[connect2source]

Thanks for that!

Looks like exactly the same finishes as the current mall which is now almost 8 years old and looking somewhat dated, especially the ceiling. Those wavy 'curtain' ceiling lights are also quite dated, they were 'hot' in the early 2000's, I hope they plan a slight refresh for the new section at least. It also looks especially narrow, I believe the width at the Sears end was the narrowest, shame that it's not slightly wider and more open.

[dreambrother808]

The mall part is supposed to open in the spring.

[SpongeG]

Where would you most probably imagine seeing it located?
In the Central Shopping District (Bay, Nordstrom) or elsewhere?

i'd like to see something on georgia on the old budget site - the block between telus and the library

perhaps a saks, or if they went the other way a marshalls, an apple flagship store, uniqlo - something that would normally be on robson but isn't this time

[trofirhen]

i'd like to see something on georgia on the old budget site - the block between telus and the library

perhaps a saks, or if they went the other way a marshalls, an apple flagship store, uniqlo - something that would normally be on robson but isn't this time

a Saks! That might be asking a bit much, but one never knows .....
I think that Budget site (and it is hideous) would do well with being replaced with a retail building. IMO just one department store would not be enough.
I'd like to see a major upscale-ish retail anchor tenant, in a building with other retail, maybe a bit like something out of Bloor Street in Toronto,

[SpongeG]

the budget site is a parking lot right now , well the west half is - they knocked down a great old building and did nothing with the site :(

i would like to see retail more spread out downtown - i think an apple store would be good there, it gets a lot of foot traffic

[Vin]

Where would you most probably imagine seeing it located?
In the Central Shopping District (Bay, Nordstrom) or elsewhere?

Spread it out a little: One at the Davie/Burrard/Yaletown neighbourhood would be divine, makes shopping a lot easier around there. Perhaps another one could be somewhere in the OV/Broadway neighbourhood. Of course, the old general post office/distribution centre site would be a potentially awesome place for a prime shopping site. Hope they don't waste that space on just condos or office blocks. A mixed development comprising of hotels, retail, restaurants, condos and offices all-inclusive is a must.

Getting really off-topic we should get back to Nordstrom and the new PC extension, which, according to the current renderings, is just ok and not a jaw-dropping project. Nonetheless, still hope to have some pleasant surprises in store.

[officedweller]

Pic by me today from Winners across the street.
Some workers inside the Nordstrom.
You can also see the chamfered corner at street level.

http://i.imgur.com/NZxijn6.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/NZxijn6)

[trofirhen]

Getting really off-topic we should get back to Nordstrom and the new PC extension, which, according to the current renderings, is just ok and not a jaw-dropping project. Nonetheless, still hope to have some pleasant surprises in store.
compared to what it is replacing, it's the Taj Mahal

[officedweller]

Well...
The old Eaton's/Sears building façade and the Taj Mahal both had/have white marble.

[ozonemania]

I think I like the fins now, because without them and the balcony, it reminds me of a Silicon Valley business park building. (Which might explain the main tenants' attraction to the space).

[officedweller]

Pic by me today - wood soffit under the Granville side canopy looks complete:

http://i.imgur.com/UitQTVg.jpg (http://imgur.com/UitQTVg)

[officedweller]

Pic by me today of the plaza redevelopment.
The area behind the station elevator will be level with Granville Street and step down at the edge of the station building.

http://i.imgur.com/Fm7JyWA.jpg (http://imgur.com/Fm7JyWA)


Reminder of the finished plaza:



http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/hirtus1/P1110191.jpg

Plaza Detail

Revised
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/hirtus1/P1110242.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/hirtus1/P1110248.jpg
All pix by Built Form

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:

I'm still curious how they'll clad the beams and columns around that entrance:

http://i.imgur.com/JJRWjm7.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/JJRWjm7)

http://i.imgur.com/BPeIKLx.jpg (http://imgur.com/BPeIKLx)

http://i.imgur.com/Q9BSO53.jpg (http://imgur.com/Q9BSO53)

[spm2013]

...

[officedweller]

Nice!

Never seen those before. The Microsoft sign looks a bit to colourful for the rest of the building.
The Howe St. sign looks a bit small for the size of the façade.
I wonder if Sony would have a sign? Usually there's only one office tenant logo on a building and other lead tenants may get a space on a pillar at the tower entrance.

So on the Robson & Granville corner, "Pacific Centre" sign is just above its entrance and escalator.

[spm2013]

...

[LeftCoaster]

Did someone already post these Microsoft sign renders? Don't recall seeing them


Nope, they were just released a week or so ago.


I wonder if Sony would have a sign? Usually there's only one office tenant logo on a building and other lead tenants may get a space on a pillar at the tower entrance.

So on the Robson & Granville corner, "Pacific Centre" sign is just above its entrance and escalator.

Microsoft has sole signage rights on the office portion of the building so there will be no Sony signage, however they will have podium signage on Georgia St.

The Pacific Centre sign at Robson and Granville is supposed to light and provide some more visual appeal to the intersection, so it will be interesting to see how the designer will approach that.

[LeftCoaster]

Also, it's tough to see but the building will feature steel 725 signage on Georgia with the podium tenants represented here, giving the building a bit more presence on Georgia than it would have otherwise.


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3935/15274368049_48f9663c21_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pgK8tg)
725 Signage (https://flic.kr/p/pgK8tg), on Flickr

[nickbeaulieu]

I didn't know they were gonna renovate the entrance to the mall through the TD tower as well. It's about time :P

[officedweller]

Did someone already post these Microsoft sign renders? Don't recall seeing them

http://www.725granville.com/OfficePlans/PAC_MicrosoftLogo3c-Web-Sized.jpg

Credit: 725Granville.com

Hey, yeah, that's different than the pics spm2013 posted, which still has the triangular entrance.
Makes sense, though, as they never renovated the floor tile in that entranceway (or stairs).

Not sure if I like the mismatching glass around the entrance.

[connect2source]

I REALLY hope they do the boxy entrance and the updated signage for the east side of the TD Tower, it updates and ties in the with original architecture beautifully!! Love the contrast too!!

[Locked In]

Nice catch OD. I greatly prefer the boxy entrance in the render Leftcoaster posted.

[SpongeG]

do those lights exist on georgia? aren't they only on granville street?

[officedweller]

No they don't.
The ones on Georgia (to the extent they still exist (only on the north side of Georgia and around Robson Square?))
are the multiple bulb ones that look like kernels of corn.

[Joat]

Isn't a Microsoft store going into the mall too?

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:

http://i.imgur.com/a4irwBd.jpg (http://imgur.com/a4irwBd)

http://i.imgur.com/bxVu4gQ.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/bxVu4gQ)

http://i.imgur.com/2K2KUso.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/2K2KUso)

[trofirhen]

I REALLY hope they do the boxy entrance and the updated signage for the east side of the TD Tower, it updates and ties in the with original architecture beautifully!! Love the contrast too!!

Amen to that!!!!

[spm2013]

...

[officedweller]

The base of TD Tower is tinted glass - it's just not reflective, so you can see in easily. The ground level may also lack an added interior UV-film applied to the widows on the office floors.
The only part with clear untinted glass would be the recessed alcove at the Georgia ST. entrance (the structural glass wall).

[nickbeaulieu]

As much of an improvement as this building is, it really is looking like a big mishmash. Especially that view along robson.

[EdinVan]

As much of an improvement as this building is, it really is looking like a big mishmash. Especially that view along robson.

Mish-mash is right. It's like the builders had all these left-over parts lying around and just decided to throw them onto the building to clear out their inventory -- like when you make a weird sandwich after cleaning out your fridge.

[officedweller]

It's probably the result of someone from the City bashing you over the head repeatedly saying "break up the massing, break up the massing", "humanize the scale, humanize the scale".

At least it's not repetitious, like the Future Shop / Winners façade.

[spm2013]

...

[officedweller]

Originally, there never were escalators at that location - it was retail space, and the only way to get to the mall on the south side of Georgia was through Eaton's. I think the escalators were installed in the 1980s, together with the entrance facing the plaza.
...and you could walk from TD Tower lobby through the TD bank to the breezeway and into Eaton's without going outside. That would get you to Robson St. indoors at grade without escalators.

EDIT:

Found a pic - there was an alcove there - with plaza stairs down to the building!
Sure looked like an interesting space back then...

http://i.imgur.com/gnT1B42.jpg (http://imgur.com/gnT1B42)
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/pacific-centre-701-granville-street

I think this is probably the only pic I've seen where you can see the entrance to Eaton's rotunda when it had no doors - just jets or air from above.

http://i.imgur.com/5aFDAuM.jpg (http://imgur.com/5aFDAuM)
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/description-in-progress-5326

and a plan of the plaza:

http://i.imgur.com/omeYXnN.jpg (http://imgur.com/omeYXnN)
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/4/5/459751/ba795a42-1b9a-4620-9bd5-193cb6472449-A74121.jpg

[Design-mind]

From Saturday.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3954/15483365065_a6b8c39c04_h.jpg

[connect2source]

Originally, there never were escalators at that location - it was retail space, and the only way to get to the mall on the south side of Georgia was through Eaton's. I think the escalators were installed in the 1980s, together with the entrance facing the plaza.
...and you could walk from TD Tower lobby through the TD bank to the breezeway and into Eaton's without going outside. That would get you to Robson St. indoors at grade without escalators.

EDIT:

Found a pic - there was an alcove there - with plaza stairs down to the building!
Sure looked like an interesting space back then...

http://i.imgur.com/gnT1B42.jpg (http://imgur.com/gnT1B42)
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/pacific-centre-701-granville-street

I think this is probably the only pic I've seen where you can see the entrance to Eaton's rotunda when it had no doors - just jets or air from above.

http://i.imgur.com/5aFDAuM.jpg (http://imgur.com/5aFDAuM)
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/description-in-progress-5326

and a plan of the plaza:

http://i.imgur.com/omeYXnN.jpg (http://imgur.com/omeYXnN)
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/4/5/459751/ba795a42-1b9a-4620-9bd5-193cb6472449-A74121.jpg

The overall design was brilliant, consistent, modernist. The diagonal design was everywhere and can still be seen today on the sidewalks alongs the Robson side, those will likely be torn-up soon.

Over the years the plaza has gradually been destroyed, first in the 80's with the removal of the elongated water-feature along Granville, then the removal of the diagonal paving in favour of the 80's circular motif and the removal of the metal sculpture, then the TD Tower expanded mall entrance with the mis-matched glass entrance we have today, completely breaking up the black monolithic shape of the tower.

What a mess!

At least now there appears to be some elements of modernism returning, especially with the boxy entrance to the TD Tower.

Obviously the original design for Pacific Centre was ahead of it's time and very under-appreciated. The me it was bold and beautiful and very Mies van der Rohe influenced.

[LeftCoaster]

It was Caesar Pelli, but yes channeling the TD Centre in Toronto (at TDs request).

[Klazu]

Happened to walk by today. It's a lively corner on Saturday afternoon.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/sears_remontti23.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/future_shop.jpg

[EdinVan]

Obviously the original design for Pacific Centre was ahead of it's time and very under-appreciated. The me it was bold and beautiful and very Mies van der Rohe influenced.

:tup:

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:


With slots for vertical blade sign supports:

http://i.imgur.com/xtpelXp.jpg (http://imgur.com/xtpelXp)

http://i.imgur.com/Y2gdNHr.jpg (http://imgur.com/Y2gdNHr)

[s211]

At the risk of inflaming the spandrel police, I am surprised at how much the spandrel clashes with the tan-conoloured marble(?) panels.

[nickbeaulieu]

At the risk of inflaming the spandrel police, I am surprised at how much the spandrel clashes with the tan-conoloured marble(?) panels.

Ya, It looks like crap. The tan marble was a mistake. Going with grey would've made it look a lot better. I thought I'd like the building, based on renders but I'm starting to dislike it more and more as it's finished. I'm not a fan of big huge boxes, but the disjointed crap on this place is nuts.

[TheGenuineArticle]

While I was hoping that they would keep maybe curved portion at the top as it was a very unique looking piece.. Attractive building for sure but nothing special as most buildings in Downtown seem to be done in the similar glass sheet style

[EdinVan]

At the risk of inflaming the spandrel police, I am surprised at how much the spandrel clashes with the tan-coloured marble(?) panels.

Those panels aren't marble, are they? I can't imagine they'd spend that much money for marble when everything else on the building is so cheap.

Bring back Pelli's original, clean, white box (sans the gaudy additions). Anything is better than this Frankenbuilding.

[EdinVan]

Ya, It looks like crap. The tan marble was a mistake. Going with grey would've made it look a lot better. I thought I'd like the building, based on renders but I'm starting to dislike it more and more as it's finished. I'm not a fan of big huge boxes, but the disjointed crap on this place is nuts.

Just imagine how much worse it will look when the signage is added, blinds are installed, and merchandise appears in the windows. I wonder if Nordstrom had any idea how different building would turn out. It's definitely not befitting a classy department store like that.

[Klazu]

I think the building will look decent while it's still brand new, but I don't think it will age very well and be regarded very highly 10 years from now.

[spm2013]

...

[officedweller]

The panels look like a thin stone veneer:

Pic by me today - back of one of the stone panels:

http://i.imgur.com/MXTrd7h.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/MXTrd7h)

[SFUVancouver]

I agree that grey stone would have likely worked better when viewed adjacent to the spandrel panels, however I expect that Nordstrom chose the stone colour as part of their tenant inducement package.

While Nordstrom is the anchor tenant for the foreseeable future, ultimately this is an investment by Cadillac Fairview on behalf of its owner the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, to whom a fiduciary responsibility exists to maximize returns. CF got this approved, they got their marquee tenant, they're adding a new tower's worth of office space and new retail space, so in aggregate this is a major win for the Teachers and for the city, and I'll wait until it's complete to form an opinion on its aesthetics.

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:

http://i.imgur.com/YKWbYqu.jpg (http://imgur.com/YKWbYqu)

http://i.imgur.com/pwpLq6t.jpg (http://imgur.com/pwpLq6t)

[connect2source]

It was Caesar Pelli, but yes channeling the TD Centre in Toronto (at TDs request).

I stated it was Mies van der Rohe 'influenced', I'm aware that Cesar Pelli deigned the two black Pacific Centre towers.

[SpongeG]

Ya, It looks like crap. The tan marble was a mistake. Going with grey would've made it look a lot better. I thought I'd like the building, based on renders but I'm starting to dislike it more and more as it's finished. I'm not a fan of big huge boxes, but the disjointed crap on this place is nuts.

the tan is nordstroms signature colour

[connect2source]

I tend to agree that is building is looking rather messy and ad-hoc as it nears completion. Besides what's been discussed, it doesn't blend, in any way with the TD Tower or Cesar Pelli's original vision or design. As much as the Sears version was hated, in it's original, 5 storey Eaton's form, it was rather striking, monolithic and beautiful. The TD Tower was a vertical black slab and Eaton's, a horizontal white slab. They complimented each other beautifully and it was a bold and powerful design in it's day.

The Nordstom rendition is trendy and poor executed. In some ways similar to Telus Gardens but far less successful. It now clashes terribly with the TD Tower mostly due to the blue glazing. It screams James Cheng mediocre Vancouverism.

They should have kept the monolithic concept and simply glazed it making a a transparent version of the original 5 storey box. It would have been rather timeless and striking as opposed to the current, rather messy rendition.

This photo shows the beginning of the destruction of the original boxy design as the 6th and 7th floor 'curvy' addition was being constructed.

Photo : The Vancouver Sun

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/eatons1980_zpsad0f8c2d.jpg

[NewWester]

I get what you are saying about the iconic nature of the more monolithic form. But I feel like the current design, while messier, makes for a more pleasant street experience. It feels less imposing, which from a design perspective is less interesting sure, but also much more pleasant to be around and experience as a pedestrian. Or at least I think so.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

the original Eatons building was much nicer then the Sears version. the original entrances were a lot nicer plus Eatons also kept the building clean and didn't let it go green like Sears did.

[connect2source]

Yes, Eaton's kept the building spotless, part of the hatred of the Sears version was the appalling condition, always filthy and the roof was a mess.

Agree NewWester, the original building wasn't the most pedestrian friendly, the new version will be better in that respect, otherwise the original Eaton's was still visually far superior IMO.

[osirisboy]

the original one looked like a big warehouse. I don't think it looked good at all. The new one does look a bit busy but a lot of that might be due to the fact it's still under construction.

[VanCvl]

I tend to agree that is building is looking rather messy and ad-hoc as it nears completion. Besides what's been discussed, it doesn't blend, in any way with the TD Tower or Cesar Pelli's original vision or design. As much as the Sears version was hated, in it's original, 5 storey Eaton's form, it was rather striking, monolithic and beautiful. The TD Tower was a vertical black slab and Eaton's, a horizontal white slab. They complimented each other beautifully and it was a bold and powerful design in it's day.

Photo : The Vancouver Sun

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/eatons1980_zpsad0f8c2d.jpg

TD Tower and Eaton's complimented each other from a perspective 1000 feet away. The pedestrian experience was terrible. The Nordstrom version only does a slightly better version to engage the street and break up the monolithic wall.

[trofirhen]

I get what you are saying about the iconic nature of the more monolithic form. But I feel like the current design, while messier, makes for a more pleasant street experience. It feels less imposing, which from a design perspective is less interesting sure, but also much more pleasant to be around and experience as a pedestrian. Or at least I think so.
May I agree? I think the pedestrian experience, plus (as I've overstated, sorry), the reflectivity of the building will make the surrounding "vibes" a lot more enjoyable and less forbidding than the original white building.

[officedweller]

the tan is nordstroms signature colour

And they were likely forced into the vertical tiles (rather than the horizontal ones being installed at their other Canadian stores) by the narrow vertical windows on the office portion.

********

The street experience wasn't that bad in the Eaton's version.

The Robson & Howe and the Granville & Robson entrances we not on the corners, and each entrance alcove had big display windows that you needed to walk past to get to the entrance.

In addition, the slit windows along the facade were still intact as display windows.

The breezeway between TD Tower and Eatons was open to the street, so no one had to walk past the ramps to get to the store entrance, and you could cut across the block (this was later replaced with a small entrance on the corner).

With the Nordstrom version, both Howe St. entrances have been eliminated - adjacent to TD Tower, and mid-block along Howe (which was always the exit at "closing time").

The Granville side at the emergency exits was probably the worst side, but there were display windows there - the long slit and in the alcove behind the bus stop.

************

It'll be interesting to see how the new VAG design avoids blank walls or pedestrian dead space. It seems that continuous streetfront retail or continuous streetfront glazing runs counter to sculptural [perhaps monolithic] building designs.

[EdinVan]

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/eatons1980_zpsad0f8c2d.jpg

Is the building dirty here, or is it just an artifact of the photo?

[EdinVan]

The Nordstom rendition is trendy and poor executed. In some ways similar to Telus Gardens but far less successful. It now clashes terribly with the TD Tower mostly due to the blue glazing.

I suspect--much to my horror--that Cadillac Fairview will reglaze the TD Tower to match the Nordstrom building (and every other dull building in this dull city).

[trofirhen]

I suspect--much to my horror--that Cadillac Fairview will reglaze the TD Tower to match the Nordstrom building (and every other dull building in this dull city).
Really? What color would they use, do you think?

[red-paladin]

Yeah :burstbubble: that's not going to happen.

[nickbeaulieu]

Ya, no way in hell they'd spend the money on reglazing the TD tower just for aesthetic reasons.

[LeftCoaster]

Sometimes I really wonder about this forum. :rolleyes:

No the TD tower will not be reclad to match this new, separate development. They were never clad in the same material in the first place so I can't imagine what the rationale for that would be. Not to mention TD would not be very pleased if their signature black tower was relcad.

[officedweller]

Cadillac is also in the process of upgrading all of the Pacific Centre towers - so if it isn't on the table now - it won't be for a long time.

Royal Bank Tower was reclad a few years ago to install double pane windows (TD Tower still has single pane) but installed the same tinted glass (the City almost forced them to reclad in clear glass (like HBC Centre in Toronto) but that would have strained the HVAC systems (like the One Wall Centre switch).

[officedweller]

Nice panorama shot by VanCityHotshots here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blazinred/15425089759/

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:

http://i.imgur.com/5aWqr77.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/5aWqr77)

http://i.imgur.com/qmc8GTl.jpg (http://imgur.com/qmc8GTl)

http://i.imgur.com/QTRvTDF.jpg (http://imgur.com/QTRvTDF)

http://i.imgur.com/IvjAfAM.jpg (http://imgur.com/IvjAfAM)

[officedweller]

Pic by me yesterday - the next level of glass is finally being installed:

http://i.imgur.com/hvDbzHK.jpg (http://imgur.com/hvDbzHK)

Noticed awning prongs being installed along Granville today.

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:

http://i.imgur.com/VtatWqe.jpg (http://imgur.com/VtatWqe)

http://i.imgur.com/AnTva8d.jpg (http://imgur.com/AnTva8d)

http://i.imgur.com/KdQgwAg.jpg (http://imgur.com/KdQgwAg)

[Prometheus]

Thanks for all the updates.

[nickbeaulieu]

Wow, the view from the sidewalk really looks like the building is just all over the place. Sad. I thought this would've been a good looking building.

Glass, Steel grating, beige Marble, fins... good god.

[connect2source]

The awnings look rather 'standard fare' and uninspiring. A bit of a wasted opportunity for making the Granville Street side spectacular and innovative.

I much prefer the canopy at 1025 Robson, which won a 2014 Urban Design Award a few weeks ago.

Photo : Vancitybuzz
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/Robson_zpsefbd8a4a.jpg
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/Robson_zpsefbd8a4a.jpg

[trofirhen]

Wow, the view from the sidewalk really looks like the building is just all over the place. Sad. I thought this would've been a good looking building.

Glass, Steel grating, beige Marble, fins... good god.
I'm hoping that it will look more cohesive when finished. Being under construction adds to that "messy" look, but I know what you mean.
As for the fins, I think they're part of the standard glass rain canopies on many new Vancouver buildings these days, or so it seems. Hope so, anyway.

[connect2source]

Wow, the view from the sidewalk really looks like the building is just all over the place. Sad. I thought this would've been a good looking building.

Glass, Steel grating, beige Marble, fins... good god.

Seems to be the case with many James Cheng designs, trying too hard to represent every architectural trend in a very confined area. IMO not only makes a mess of the overall design but dates very quickly.

[officedweller]

It's a bit weird in that it looks better from a distance.
I like the office level fins because they add a shifting quality, so the building looks different from different angles (as opposed to just a glass-clad box).

When you get up close, there's an absence of detail at grade and just a wall of glass (and future wall of stone), and it's a bit monotonous (because it is, after all, a block long department store with limited entrances).

Hopefully they'll have displays in the windows to add interest (rather than just open views over the retail floor).

[EdinVan]

Why do so many people suddenly dislike the project? When I said months ago that it looked like a Frankenbuilding, you all jumped to defend it. Did anyone think it would actually get better as the construction progressed?

Groupthink 101.

[EdinVan]

Sometimes I really wonder about this forum. :rolleyes:

No the TD tower will not be reclad to match this new, separate development. They were never clad in the same material in the first place so I can't imagine what the rationale for that would be. Not to mention TD would not be very pleased if their signature black tower was relcad.

Get off your high horse already.

For the record, the TD towers in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Halifax are not black, and neither is the TD building at Brookfield Place in Toronto. In fact, the TD Tower in Edmonton was reclad... to blue. Clearly, the bank is no longer wedded to black. There was also tremendous controversy when the TD Tower in Vancouver was built because residents thought it was too dark (and many still do). It is a reasonable assumption to make that this tower could be reclad in the future, particularly for those who don't have insider information to the contrary. By the way, if my comments bother you so much, you can ignore them and not respond; I'm sure no love will be lost.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

leave it black! i like it as a black building. it's different from everything else.

yes, this building looks ridiculous. bring back the Eatons cladding and design it was a hell of a lot better then this. they should have gone back to the Eatons design but instead of white stone using glass while keeping the original entrances, etc.

[connect2source]

...bring back the Eatons cladding and design it was a hell of a lot better then this. they should have gone back to the Eatons design but instead of white stone using glass while keeping the original entrances, etc.

Agreed! As stated many times, in it's original form, Eaton's was striking, simple, modernist and pleasing. A simple boxy and monolithic re-glaze would have paid respect to the original design and aged far better.

The gridlines referenced those of the TD Tower and the black glazing matched the tower as well.

The Eaton's / Sears we hated was the result of years of neglect and poorly executed additions and changes.


Photos From : http://departmentstoremuseum.blogspot.ca
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/eatons1_zps60ab3abf.jpg

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/eatons2_zpsec580b47.jpg

Contrast that to the abomination it later became.

Photo From : http://raincityedge.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/vancouvers-face-lift/
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/sears_zps6b8368e2.jpg

[officedweller]

Agreed! As stated many times, in it's original form, Eaton's was striking, simple, modernist and pleasing. A simple boxy and monolithic re-glaze would have paid respect to the original design and aged far better.

The gridlines referenced those of the TD Tower and the black glazing matched the tower as well.

The Eaton's / Sears we hated was the result of years of neglect and poorly executed additions and changes.


Yup - agreed.

They could have reverted back to the alcove entrances, and backlit the spandrel above them with LEDs.

The box could have been clad in white fritted or patterned glass to give a similar look (see Ryerson's Student Building in Toronto).
Even punching square windows in each terrazzo panel would have worked to convert the upper floors to office space.

Remember that the spandrel was originally backlit. I saw them lighted one night in the dying days of Eaton's,
and the spandrel said "EATONSEATONSEATONS.." in a border along the bottom edge.

...
Pics by me today.

Spandrel panels above one of the alcoves has been removed.
Note the fluorescent tube sockets and ballasts that formerly backlit the spandrel panels.
Major missed opportunity not relighting them in the 1999-ish renovation.

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/595/img2013030500788.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/img2013030500788.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/6735/img2013030500789.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/img2013030500789.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Here's the only pic I've ever seen with the spandrel lit up - from 1981:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/cms/binary/6243769.jpg
1981. Eaton's store on Granville at night.
Photograph by: Ralph Bower, Vancouver Sun
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Photos+Sears+close+Vancouver+flagship+store/6243882/story.html

[nickbeaulieu]

I remember seeing them lit up in person when I was a kid. When I started working downtown years ago I remember thinking "didn't those light up?"

Definitely looked good in its original incarnation, but it would still need an update by now if it had stayed like that.

I still think they should have just demo'ed the whole thing and started from scratch. With a different architect.

[connect2source]

Thanks officedweller and nick...

I think I vaguely recall seeing the spandrel lit up, perhaps in the early 80's but I think it was dark for the last 15 years or so of the original EATON'S.

Like the idea of the punched out windows as well! I wish this building re-do had been taken a bit more seriously, it does represent the centre of our city in so many ways, an architectural competition of some sort would have produced amazing results.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

thanks for posting those photos of the original building. i haven't seen that many and that is really cool with the back lighting. man, the original building did look nice! you know, when it wasn't neglected and butchered.

a design competition would have been a great idea! that building is in such a great location when you think of whats all around there; Law Courts, Robson Square, hotel Georgia, Hotel Vancouver, Shangri-La, Granville street, and Hudson's Bay.

does anyone know if they are adding decorative lighting? or will it just be blank glass walls looking into an empty store?

why does Vancouver almost always end up with crap buildings? is it the developers or the city? i swear every decade literally gets worse and worse when it comes to buildings in the city. there arent all that many getting built that are good-to-decent. there are a few, of course, but not many.

i wonder when the next recladding of this building gets done, will it last a while or get redone in a decade or so. should be interesting to see.

[osirisboy]

The original building did not look nice and am glad its gone. Granted the new one looks busy it's better than big blank walls.

[hankthetank]

Why do so many people suddenly dislike the project? When I said months ago that it looked like a Frankenbuilding, you all jumped to defend it. Did anyone think it would actually get better as the construction progressed?

Groupthink 101.


Speaking of high horse...

Yes, we should have all listened to world-renown architectural critic EdinVan. Piece of advice: Try to avoid statements like "You all..."

I really like the building. Major improvement over what was there and it feels comfortable and to scale from street level.

[LeftCoaster]

Get off your high horse already.

For the record, the TD towers in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Halifax are not black, and neither is the TD building at Brookfield Place in Toronto. In fact, the TD Tower in Edmonton was reclad... to blue. Clearly, the bank is no longer wedded to black. There was also tremendous controversy when the TD Tower in Vancouver was built because residents thought it was too dark (and many still do). It is a reasonable assumption to make that this tower could be reclad in the future, particularly for those who don't have insider information to the contrary. By the way, if my comments bother you so much, you can ignore them and not respond; I'm sure no love will be lost.

I'm not going to bother with the high horse comment from someone who seems to know better than every architect and developer in town and accuses the rest of the forum of group think. I may get a little exasperated with people's constant criticism of architecture/development in Vancouver, but I in no way consider myself an architectural guru, and have certainly implied so.

Secondly, regarding the black/brown glazing. Weren't you the guy who was just lamenting the use of blue glass at 980 Howe? Shouldn't you be happy the TD Building will not be re-glazed?

And for the record, if you went and asked any TD exec what colour they want their building to be they would say black. They don't always get their way, as you have pointed out, but CF and TD have a very strong relationship, so im sure Cf would like to keep their largest tenant happy. Also, many of the "TD" buildings you have pointed out used to be Canada Trust buildings and their tenancy in such is a legacy of the merger. Look for this to change as leases expire (see Bentall IV).

[trofirhen]

It's a mind-blower, ... after 40 years of bad image and PR, the original Eaton's bulding in white, criticised for it's lack of street-level permeability
and its stark white ceramic look earning it the epithet "the biggest urinal in town" even BEFORE becoming Sears, and the slowly-descending green slime on the roof .... That people are now giving the eclectic (being polite) but reflective replacement The Bronx Rasberry.

Oh, and if you can find that "way we WEREN'T" thread, you'll see the building that was supposed to have gone where the TD Tower is.
It was taller, at 40 storeys, was clad in stone on one side, glass on the other, and had a tall round-doored passageway going through it with tall, rounded, stone passageway doors
that made the whole thing super elegant.
If you don't trust me, ask Klazu. He referred to it as his "favourite unbuilt building" or such. It would beat what is there now hands down, IMO. Again, ifit's all right, may I suggest asking Klazu ? He will find it if you as him, I'm sure. I could not.:???::tup:

@Klazu: Ursäkta mig för att ror hänvisar till dig utan tillstånd från din sida, men jag vet att du kunde hitta det kontoret torndesign som du (och jag) älskar, medan jag inte kunde hitta styrelserna stolpen. Tack så mycket.
(Google-översättning)

[spm2013]

...

[trofirhen]

I think this building would have been waaaaay classier than that black glass, be they Cesar Pelli-designed or not.
The adjoining Eaton"s seems to be made of stone, too, and the buildings across Georgia street are not the stubby black IBM, but would probably have turned out much like what is there now, maybe even with the Four Seasons.
This building is tall and classy, and would have become one of the city's true signature towers, in the perfect location ...... IMO.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/rakentumaton_vancouver8.jpg

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=210691

Credit: Klazu

we lost out on that?!?! how?!?! who made that decision?!?!?!?! that unbuilt building is gorgeous! :slob::multibow: it reminds me of something you would see built in LA. the light stone, shrubbery on the roof, arch way and all.

whats that building next to it? i don't recognize it, but it is pretty nice looking to.

[MIPS]

Wasn't the British Columbia Center (the tower that was to be built on Robson Square and the law courts) canned because people objected to the shadow it would cast?

[spm2013]

...

[officedweller]

Apparently the Four Seasons was also originally slated to be a dark tower too but changed due to the outcry, and the Stock Exchange Tower was to be occupied by BC Tel, but they decided to build the Boot instead (and the Stock Exchange Tower was shortened in height).