SoBa [203 Catherine St] | 19f | Completed

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Harley613

another article in the Sun
http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/11/29/...-tower-opposed

effing diane holmes. i'm so sick and tired of it...
'has voiced her discontent about the proposed height.'

'The Centretown Citizens Community Association has written to the city saying the development is “totally out of scale” with the neighbourhood and asks for the application to be deferred until council approves a community design plan. A committee of churches which operates an emergency food centre is afraid the development would cause a parking crunch on streets.'

oooh yeah. IT'S F*#KING CENTRETOWN!!! 'CENTRE' TOWN. out of scale? how long can we keep CENTRE town SMALL town?

in other news....people who need emergency food supplies from churches drive vehicles....

sorry for the rant. fed up with stupidity.

the parking is for their volunteers (see their comments in the staff report)

[gjhall]

here's the kicker: have you looked at the CDP underway? it is proposing HIGH PROFILE RESIDENTIAL in that area.

Case closed.

[S-Man]

They're calling it an 'eclectic' street. Yup - bus station, car wash and parking lots. I'm thinking heritage preservation is needed.

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by phil235

I don't mind the podium. I think the idea is to break up the 4-6 storey streetwall a little and perhaps frame the building across the street.

No doubt Catherine could end up feeling a bit like a canyon, but I think that is the right place for a row of higher buildings. It's never going to be pretty, but it does have great transit potential and a limited impact on the more established parts of Centretown. (And I say this as someone who lives 2 blocks from Catherine and will likely find myself in one of these terrifying shadows one day.)

I think that higher buildings even have a good possibility of mitigating the impact of the highway.

I tend to agree. Those bigger pedestals can buffer some of the highway sound, and though not perfect for pedestrian streets, are an improvement on Catherine. Catherine is unlikely to become a very pedestrian friendly street. It's effectively a feeder road for the Queensway. It's one of the reasons the street has languished.

Soba has the potential to be a very important building. It can kickstart development on Catherine. There's plenty of potential for office space and large format retail that wouldn't fit on a traditional main street, but would be an improvement on Catherine.

It can also perform an important role on Bank street. Today a walk from Old Ottawa South to Wellington, has several long gaps with little to interest a pedestrian. Soba continues the line of Condo outposts south past Central within strolling distance of the Glebe. If retail and restaurants rush in to fill these gaps along Bank walkability should increase.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by umbria27

It can also perform an important role on Bank street. Today a walk from Old Ottawa South to Wellington, has several long gaps with little to interest a pedestrian. Soba continues the line of Condo outposts south past Central within strolling distance of the Glebe. If retail and restaurants rush in to fill these gaps along Bank walkability should increase.

There is already some movement in that direction with the new(ish) Thai place on Bank. The Berryman Pub just north on Bank is another great addition to the neighbourhood.

[Cre47]

Approved unanimously by the planning committee. Great news!

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ca...909/story.html

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by reidjr

I think the city has to be very careful with the community design plan sure it may be a great idea but it worries me that citizens may have way to much say what gets built.

There are a number of problems with community design plans. Aside from the obvious that they do not take into account what all land owners care to do or not do with their property, they are largely a theoretical exercise that does not work that well in practice.

Even Diane Holmes pointed that out with this proposal. The (draft) community design plan does call for tall buildings along Catherine street, put if you look at what is already there, there is in fact few places to actually build much. You have a collection of things like the police station which are unlike to go any place in the foreseeable future along with sites like Beaver Barracks which is really new and has the same problem.

Community design plans are often not very based on reality. The development they allow/call for is not in line with what is either physically possible or what the market will support.

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

There are a number of problems with community design plans. Aside from the obvious that they do not take into account what all land owners care to do or not do with their property, they are largely a theoretical exercise that does not work that well in practice.

Even Diane Holmes pointed that out with this proposal. The (draft) community design plan does call for tall buildings along Catherine street, put if you look at what is already there, there is in fact few places to actually build much. You have a collection of things like the police station which are unlike to go any place in the foreseeable future along with sites like Beaver Barracks which is really new and has the same problem.

Community design plans are often not very based on reality. The development they allow/call for is not in line with what is either physically possible or what the market will support.

Sadly true. Community Design Plans would benefit from getting the land owners and developers directly involved. This is when developers could do a really effective consultation project, as opposed to when they do it now, after they've already submitted a proposal. Involving developers would inject more pragmatism into these plans. On one hand developers could say "nice picture, but we'd never make money developing that, so it's not going to happen." On the other side, the community could say "We'd support this kind of development, are you Mr. Developer interested in that?".

I suspect the obstacle to that sort of open dialog is the secrecy that's often required by developers to remain competitive. If you openly declare you'd like to build X kind of development on X plot of land, you alert competitors and perhaps push the price for that land higher.

At the very least, though you should have developers in the room to provide some general feedback, even if they might be cagey about their specific plans.

[umbria27]

Committee OKs Catherine Street condos

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Co...909/story.html

I hadn't realized that the building was that far east on the block. I had assumed it was right at Bank. It seems to be directly opposite the 4 story Appraisal Institute, which means unobstructed views for South facing apartments.

[Davis137]

I think it will look great, and will perhaps set the stage for a gradual facelift of Catherine Street...

[amanfromnowhere]

Rezoning at 203 Catherine OKd by council. Guess who was against... here's the answer:

203 Catherine rezoning approved. Holmes the only dissenter.
http://twitter.com/davidreevely

[S-Man]

What a shocker. He also tweeted she questioned Watson about "secret meetings between developers and planning staff", meaning even though she knows well enough how these processes are handled (of course there are meetings between the city and the developer, duh!), she's sinking to the neighbourhood NIMBY level by spreading scary-sounding rumours and anti-development sentiment.
Anything to save precious downtown parking lots and greenspace. When was the last time 'greenspace' was developed downtown? What a 70s throwback. Maybe should buy some new pantsuits and retire.

[amanfromnowhere]

ottawacitizen:

Catherine Street condo approved
By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen December 14, 2011 3:06



An artist’s rendering of the planned condo tower at 203 Catherine St. by Brad J. Lamb, a Toronto developer.OTTAWA — A Toronto developer can build a 23-storey condo tower at 203 Catherine St., city council agreed Wednesday, adding 17 storeys to what’s allowed there now.

The rezoning required for Brad J. Lamb’s “SoBa” building (for “South on Bank”) makes more sense under a new neighbourhood plan for Centretown, which is nearing completion but hasn’t been approved yet.

It calls for towers as tall as 27 storeys along Catherine, in an effort to revitalize a strip that suffers from being right next to the Queensway. But Councillor Diane Holmes, who represents the area, argued that even if that’s what the new community design plan would allow, it doesn’t make a lot of sense: Catherine is dominated by much shorter buildings that aren’t going anywhere, like police headquarters and Galashan public school.

The SoBa tower won’t mesh with its surroundings for a long, long time, she said, if it ever does. An apartment complex barely a third as tall, on the next block east, is under construction and not even finished yet.

But despite a short if fiery debate — Holmes was cut off by Mayor Jim Watson for running over her five-minute speaking limit and objected strenuously — council dismissed Holmes’s arguments.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ca...#ixzz1gXv0VyGD

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by S-Man

What a shocker. He also tweeted she questioned Watson about "secret meetings between developers and planning staff", meaning even though she knows well enough how these processes are handled (of course there are meetings between the city and the developer, duh!), she's sinking to the neighbourhood NIMBY level by spreading scary-sounding rumours and anti-development sentiment.
Anything to save precious downtown parking lots and greenspace. When was the last time 'greenspace' was developed downtown? What a 70s throwback. Maybe should buy some new pantsuits and retire.

Exactly..of course there are meetings between the developer/consultants and City staff or councillors...it just so happens that in Centretown most meetings that developers/consultants schedule with the Centretown councillor are just courtesy calls to HRH Holmes.....most savvy owners will also meet with other key councillors in order to keep them in the loop with the hope that on decision day it is not just 1 vote against the application.

I have yet to recall an application in Centretown that promoted private development that she whole heartedly supported without some withering snide comment about its height, lack of non profit parking etc.

It seems to me that she has taken it upon herself to represent Centretown and the legacies of Doucet, Bedard and Cullen.

She seems to have few friends on Council these days...

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by amanfromnowhere

ottawacitizen:

If the CDP calls for 27 storeys along Catherine I wonder why they didn't propose 27 storeys.

[amanfromnowhere]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

If the CDP calls for 27 storeys along Catherine I wonder why they didn't propose 27 storeys.

my thought is that developer didn't want that... I guess 17-21 storeys range is his comfortable level - quick sales, less hustle etc.. probably he was asked to add a couple of more storeys...may be I am wrong

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by amanfromnowhere

my thought is that developer didn't want that... I guess 17-21 storeys range is his comfortable level - quick sales, less hustle etc.. probably he was asked to add a couple of more storeys...may be I am wrong

I'd agree with this.

Also, the developer has made it very clear that he intends to develop more properties in this area. For marketing purposes, it is better if he starts smaller and works his way up to the taller projects. A 21 storey building, if successful, will start rejuvenating the area and build the critical mass & public awareness that would support taller development.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

.........

She seems to have few friends on Council these days...

Given the pace at which new towers are being approved this year, she seems utterly isolated. I am struggling with my urge to feel bad for her.

[waterloowarrior]

Appealed to the OMB

[S-Man]

WTF! did every proposal in the city get appealed to the OMB this week? The only reaonn it gets any business is because Ottawa keeps sending ts NIMBYs down there to whine about their quality of life. Isn't this street slated for high-rise residential?
Will they argue that high-rise means a two-storey home?