2019 CFL Season

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

MLS isn't anywhere near the best when it comes to soccer, but it's the best available in the U.S. context. That's good enough for some Torontonians even though MLS is a lot lower on the soccer pecking order than the CFL is on the gridiron football pecking order.

Originally Posted by elly63

I am going to say this with the best of (and truthful) intentions and not as part of our personal CFL/MLS battle. Substitute MLS for CFL above and you have the exact same thing.

MLS is not the best, not even on this continent, the EPL is the juggernaut that keeps more soccer folk from embracing MLS, with their own brand of snobbery. How then did TFC become successful drawing to the stadium? And why can't the Argos duplicate it? To me both teams face many similar issues.

There was a line from my previous post that I want to reiterate:

Originally Posted by JHikka

The thing about being a sports team in such a large city is that you have to find some sort of way to be relevant. Whether that's winning championships, being affiliated with celebrities or other teams, or just being popular in general.

When I say celebrities I mean both sporting and non-sporting. Here's an example:

MLS operates in a sport which, on the whole, is more popular than football. Soccer encompasses such an insane number of fans around the world that the market for players, fans, and general interest is so much higher than anything the CFL could conceivably strive for. Gridiron football is massively popular in North America and....nowhere else, really. Soccer is everywhere. You can find it everywhere. MLS lives in that everywhere. That's the advantage MLS has over the CFL.

The difference between the two is that MLS plays within a world market, meaning that MLS teams can sign players like Wayne Rooney, and Zlatan Ibrahimovic, and David Beckham - all of these are pretty well-known athletes around the world. A CFL team can sign a player that has ten times the YouTube followers that the team that signs him has, but they can't sign famous international superstars who saw billions of people watch them over a number of years.

MLS isn't the best footy you'll ever see but it can feature some of the best players you'll ever see, even if they're at times past their prime.

The offshoot of this is international soccer as well. The Gold Cup will be played next month and will feature MLS players playing for national teams. The World Cup features MLS players (more and more each edition...). Soccer has the ability to transcend domestic sports leagues into international competitions. Football doesn't do this. You can't watch CFL players play for Team Canada in any meaningful international competition, but you can watch Canadian national team players play in the MLS, even if it's below European leagues. This back and forth between domestic and international makes for some decent cross-promotion and marketing, the same as how NHL players lift the World Championships.

I suppose in half a decade this conversation may just be CPL v. CFL. That would be a more apt and interesting discussion, IMO.

Originally Posted by elly63

How then did TFC become successful drawing to the stadium? And why can't the Argos duplicate it?

The simple answer would be that soccer is more popular in Toronto, or at least that soccer is more popular than Canadian football. I don't really think this would be much of a disputable fact. We could go on ad nauseum about demographics, ethnic backgrounds, average ages; but at the end of the day I think it's pretty clearcut in 2019 that soccer is more popular than Canadian football in Canada's biggest city, and probably cities.

The more complex answer would be to include the NFL into the mix. I know a handful of people who live in the GTA who are Bills season-ticket holders who wouldn't touch the CFL with a 100-yard pole. It's beneath them to even consider the CFL because it's not the top level of football. Fullstop. Going to Buffalo is eight weekends in the fall, not too difficult a commitment, and you get to be a part of the big American entertainment show and the best gridiron football money can buy. TFC battles with soccer teams that play in England at 9 and 10 in the morning. It's not difficult to watch a Premier League game at 9 and then head down to BMO in the same afternoon (and you can't exactly just drive to England whenever you want to check a game out...). Comparing MLS v. EPL to CFL v. NFL is a bit difficult because the former are separated by time and space and the latter nearly share the same space.

[Eau Claire]

I’ve almost stopped caring about the Argos problems, but the fans clearly are there, they just need to get them out to the games. Part of the problem is the way the Toronto media has treated the Argos. The Argos draw 10x the TV ratings that the MLS team does, and twice what the Jays and Raptors draw for regular season games, and yet the Toronto media seems to paint a very different picture about who is popular and who isn't. Anyway, on to more interesting topics...

Esks beat BC in the first pre-season game.! Only an exhibition game, but a bit of a surprise. I’m picking Edmonton for last in the west this year, especially now that Rogers is gone for the year.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I suppose in half a decade this conversation may just be CPL v. CFL. That would be a more apt and interesting discussion, IMO.

Or CPL vs MLS which is why MLS will always be niche and never go mainstream in Canada. The three MLS teams is what hurts it, there is no de facto "Canada's team" I can see the CPL (if they survive) overtaking MLS in popularity just as the CFL as a whole does over MLS, but they'll have to do that under the weight of a far different pay structure (the CPL).

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The more complex answer would be to include the NFL into the mix. I know a handful of people who live in the GTA who are Bills season-ticket holders who wouldn't touch the CFL with a 100-yard pole. It's beneath them to even consider the CFL because it's not the top level of football.

I've been around the Canadian soccer scene a lot longer than you have (you've stated your age) and I can guarantee you the same applies to the big European Leagues vs MLS, else wise the MLS would have a much larger viewing audience.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Eau Claire

I’ve almost stopped caring about the Argos problems, but the fans clearly are there, they just need to get them out to the games. Part of the problem is the way the Toronto media has treated the Argos. The Argos draw 10x the TV ratings that the MLS team does, and twice what the Jays and Raptors draw for regular season games, and yet the Toronto media seems to paint a very different picture about who is popular and who isn't.

Yes, that is the conundrum that nobody can seem to figure out. I`m hoping the MLSE marketers will finally solve this issue and bring the fans back in from the cold.

[elly63]

Three Canadian QBs in Toronto, the other three American QBs are not established. Discuss.

Don't you hate it when people do that (say discuss)

Actually, a similar situation in Montreal, two Canadian QBs and no experienced, established starter among the others. Will be interesting to see who gets kept and who goes.

Prediction... O'Connor and Richard are kept, Merchant cut, but we haven't seen the last of him. Maybe Merchant kept as QB and Richard converted to receiver or vice versa.

If the rumours are true and the Als are soon sold, you have to think Hugo Richard will be part of that football team because that will play a big part in the road back to relevancy.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

I've been around the Canadian soccer scene a lot longer than you have (you've stated your age) and I can guarantee you the same applies to the big European Leagues vs MLS, else wise the MLS would have a much larger viewing audience.

If you look at only TV ratings then sure. There's more to sports media in 2019 than simply looking at how many people watch on TV and concluding that one team is more popular than another based solely on viewership. TV is a declining medium dominated by people 50 and over, most of whom are more likely to watch certain sports over others.

There are of course people who will only watch Big 4 or Big 5 soccer and not MLS but I can't imagine this crowd is much larger than the group that only watches NFL and not CFL.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

There are of course people who will only watch Big 4 or Big 5 soccer and not MLS but I can't imagine this crowd is much larger than the group that only watches NFL and not CFL.

Well I guess that doesn't say much for soccer viewership, does it?

[Eau Claire]

Originally Posted by elly63

Yes, that is the conundrum that nobody can seem to figure out. I`m hoping the MLSE marketers will finally solve this issue and bring the fans back in from the cold.

I'm not sure how good MLSE is at marketing their teams. Their MLS team loses money every year, and ten years on their tv ratings are in the 5 digit range. And before this playoff run, even when they were doing very well this year, I noticed that the Raptors ratings were very low as well. I think the Argos are a team they could generate widespread support for, however. I'm not sure that's possible for the other two.

[elly63]

For you football fans out there, unbelievably, Sportsnet put together a great article about the Top 50 CIS players. The CIS must be a much more important entity as we might be led to believe because I have heard of pretty much every player on that list, even before a CFL career.

Before looking, on your honour, anyone want to mention the number one, or top five?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Eau Claire

I'm not sure how good MLSE is at marketing their teams. Their MLS team loses money every year, and ten years on their tv ratings are in the 5 digit range. And before this playoff run, even when they were doing very well this year, I noticed that the Raptors ratings were very low as well. I think the Argos are a team they could generate widespread support for, however. I'm not sure that's possible for the other two.

It's a Toronto vs Canada thing, when that 6 million in the GTA gets on the bandwagon, it's gonna roll, and like the Jays, when that bandwagon stops there's a big tumble. The Raps will get a big hometown number and some casuals from the ROC, what will be interesting will be if and when the Leafs ever get going because they can draw a far larger number in the ROC.

In a very slightly similar way, in the US election, the people on the coasts (Clinton) were so self absorbed they just couldn't fathom there was a big area in the middle that didn't think the same way they did.

Anyway, this is the CFL forum not the ratings, marketing thread, time to get back to football.

[Eau Claire]

Originally Posted by elly63

It's a Toronto vs Canada thing, when that 6 million in the GTA gets on the bandwagon, it's gonna roll, and like the Jays, when that bandwagon stops there's a big tumble.

In a very slightly similar way, in the US election, the people on the coasts (Clinton) were so self absorbed they just couldn't fathom there was a big area in the middle that didn't think the same way they did.

You are sooo right on that one! And probably the other one as well.

[Eau Claire]

Originally Posted by elly63

For you football fans out there, unbelievably, Sportsnet put together a great article about the Top 50 CIS players. The CIS must be a much more important entity as we might be led to believe because I have heard of pretty much every player on that list, even before a CFL career.

Before looking, on your honour, anyone want to mention the number one, or top five?

Sportsnet you say? Doing something on Canadian football?!

As for the #1 I'll go with the UofC's QB, whose name I'm drawing a blank on.

Edit: Oh, it's a top 50 all time list. Did Russ Jackson go to a Canadian school?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

For you football fans out there, unbelievably, Sportsnet put together a great article about the Top 50 CIS players. The CIS must be a much more important entity as we might be led to believe because I have heard of pretty much every player on that list, even before a CFL career.

Before looking, on your honour, anyone want to mention the number one, or top five?

Thought this was interesting, the top two QBs listed below were (until now) the closest CIS QBs (aside from Buckley) to come close to being a CFL QB in recent history.

Eben and Sinopoli were/are star CFL receivers.

Here are five players who didn’t crack our final list but deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with these other CIS greats of the Vanier Cup era.

Kyle Quinlan | Quarterback | McMaster 2008-12
Dan Brannagan | Quarterback | Queen’s 2005-09
Mike Eben | Wide Receiver | U of Toronto 1964-67
Ben Chapdelaine | Quarterback | McMaster 1997-01
Brad Sinopoli | Quarterback | Ottawa 2007-10

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Eau Claire

Sportsnet you say? Doing something on Canadian football?!

As for the #1 I'll go with the UofC's QB, whose name I'm drawing a blank on.

Edit: Oh, it's a top 50 all time list. Did Russ Jackson go to a Canadian school?

There's another UofC QB (Eric Glavic) (number 13), the one in my era was Stamps QB Greg Vavra (number 9). Yes, Russ Jackson went to Mixmaster but the list only goes back the 50 years of the Vanier Cup.

If anyone needs to know about the importance of a Canadian QB and why Russ Jackson is the living legend you just have to look at this now legendary clip of former Commissioner Cohon, PM Stephen Harper and the man himself.

[Eau Claire]

Originally Posted by elly63

There's another UofC QB (Eric Glavic) (number 13), the one in my era was Stamps QB Greg Vavra (number 9). Yes, Russ Jackson went to Mixmaster but the list only goes back the 50 years of the Vanier Cup.

I was thinking it was the top 50 this year and I was thinking about Adam Sinagra.

I'm not sure about this list. I see they have Michael Faulds as the career leading passer, but that's not true. It's Noah Picton, who certainly should be on this list but does not appear to be.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Eau Claire

I was thinking it was the top 50 this year and I was thinking about Adam Sinagra.

I'm not sure about this list. I see they have Michael Faulds as the career leading passer, but that's not true. It's Noah Picton, who certainly should be on this list but does not appear to be.

I'm not sure of the date on the list, it may be a few years old. I just stumbled on to it earlier.

[Eau Claire]

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm not sure of the date on the list, it may be a few years old. I just stumbled on to it earlier.

Oh ok. I'm guessing it's a few years old.

[TimB09]

Changing gears a little bit with the CFL discussion.

The TSN TV deal is up in 2021. Does anyone think Sportsnet places a bid on CFL games come 2021? TSN has done a decent job with their coverage but the CFL is their #1 since losing out on the new hockey deal. I feel like they could do a lot more to pump up the game but they choose not to, even though TV ratings are always solid.

I have a feeling Randy Ambroise will go out and have stations bid on the rights to CFL games. I don't know who else, aside from TSN & Sportsnet, will bid though. Maybe CBC but their sports director at one time told them to cut football off their programming.

[esquire]

^ I'm sure other networks will bid but realistically TSN is the best bet for the CFL. CBC Sports is an anemic shadow of what it once was, and Rogers/SN is pretty loaded down with the Jays for the summer so there's less incentive for them. DAZN is still pretty obscure, so who else is left? Maybe some obscure network wanting to raise its profile? ("CFL Friday Night Football on the Fishing Network!!")

TSN is widely watched and it does a good overall job of producing and promoting the games. I'd rather have the CFL there than on any other network.