[Halifax] The Winslow (2570 Windsor) | 20 m | 7 fl | U/C

[TheLittleGuy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The two main arguments against seem to be on-street parking being affected and of course the usual "It's TOO TALL!!!" nonsense that we always get in this town. I hope it gets the green light.

Progress seldom wins in this town...

[halifaxboyns]

This project will likely get solved if the Regional Centre Program looks at Windsor street as a corridor of potential growth.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

This project will likely get solved if the Regional Centre Program looks at Windsor street as a corridor of potential growth.

But: shadows. Wind. Traffic: NIMBY POWER!

[alps]

I notice the website at http://spiritplace.ca/ has gone offline. Sad. I thought this was a great proposal - it provided the financial means for the congregation to stay together on the same site in new premises. It provided inclusive retirement housing in the heart of the city, allowing local seniors to stay in the neighbourhood, within walking distance to the supermarket and pharmacy - rather than being siloed in these old folks homes going up in car-oriented suburban areas.

All because the new building will be imperceptibly larger than the current one. I attended the public hearings for this and the opposition was just absurd. One neighbour said she didn't want residents staring at her through their windows. One woman inexplicably started weeping at the microphone. The woman sitting next to me thought I was a reporter and told me she feared that "single mothers" would move into the neighbourhood as a result of this retirement home (???). Then there were the usual misplaced traffic fears. Development is going to happen some place regardless, and I am willing to bet that most of the traffic on Windsor Street does not originate in the local neighbourhood, which is already fairly walkable. It's coming from Bedford and Clayton Park, where most people have to drive to work.

Just pathetic...the scale was perfect for the site and all the NIMBYs are doing is driving more suburban sprawl.

[someone123]

The development process on most of the peninsula is still seriously broken.

Ironically I think the NIMBYs might be encouraging the construction of larger developments because those are the ones that developers are willing to fight for. If you're doing a $100M, five-year project, two years of approvals and appeals isn't so bad. It's smaller (and often more community-driven) projects like this one that suffer the most from a long and uncertain approval process. The affordable housing project on Gottingen is another one that would provide great benefit to the community but has been burdened by way too much red tape.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Diamond Apartments is the new Spirit Place.

We all knew there was going to be an appeal. New saying "TIH"... this is Halifax.

[Keith P.]

After the NIMBYs ran this proposal out of town on a rail, the church finally gave up and sold it:

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/met...d-to-developer

The Windsor Street church, built in 1918 and empty since January 2009, was put up for sale in January for $1.35 million and almost immediately got offers to purchase it.

The church was sold for $1.2 million, according to information posted on the Viewpoint Realty Services website.

Well-known local developer Sol Ghosn told the Chronicle Herald Wednesday that he bought the property personally, not through his company Brookshire Developments, as has been reported elsewhere.

Ghosn said he’s working on plans that include keeping the church as a heritage property and creating 45-50 apartment units in it. He said he has been interested in the property for quite a while and has been considering different concepts that at one point included leveling the building and putting up townhouses.

With the help of the design team at Studioworks International, he has a few concepts in hand for the property, which is already zoned residential.

“I’ve been meeting with the neighbours, trying to keep everyone onside,” he said. “Hopefully, together we can come up with something everyone can agree with.”

He said he hopes to finish discussions with the neighbours and take a concept to the city for approval “very soon.”

Whatever design is chosen, Ghosn said he expects the project will cost $10 million-plus, regardless of whether the church is left standing or is torn down. “It’s hard to say exactly at this point.”

Rev. Martha Martin confirmed Wednesday the sale had gone through but said the church officials are looking ahead, not back.

“We’re focusing on re-inventing ourselves,” she said in a phone interview, “but we’re very much alive and well.”

At one point, church officials wanted to tear it down and build Spirit Place, which would have included a facility for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender senior citizens.

But Halifax Regional Council rejected the plan in 2013 after neighbours complained about the size of the seven-storey proposed building.

Sounds like a lose-lose for everyone.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Sounds like a lose-lose win-win for everyone.

Fixed it for you.

[portapetey]

This sounds great and makes much more sense than what the church was trying to do before.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Fixed it for you.

Sounds like this has the potential to be really good project, especially:

Ghosn said he’s working on plans that include keeping the church as a heritage property and creating 45-50 apartment units in it.

Very interesting....

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Fixed it for you.

I thought we were not supposed to modify quotes here?


I can pretty much guarantee it will not remain in its current form. Church buildings make notoriously bad conversions, and this one is quite far gone. Wait until the neighborhood NIMBYs get wind of what he comes up with. He should propose a 20-storey tower.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I thought we were not supposed to modify quotes here?


I can pretty much guarantee it will not remain in its current form. Church buildings make notoriously bad conversions, and this one is quite far gone. Wait until the neighborhood NIMBYs get wind of what he comes up with. He should propose a 20-storey tower.

I quite like the church conversion on Robie Street

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I thought we were not supposed to modify quotes here?


I can pretty much guarantee it will not remain in its current form. Church buildings make notoriously bad conversions, and this one is quite far gone. Wait until the neighborhood NIMBYs get wind of what he comes up with. He should propose a 20-storey tower.

Really? There are zillions of church conversions out there. It's true, this building has been left to the elements for quite a while, but I bet I could compile a dozens-long list of church conversions in Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes. There's a whole neighbourhood in the west end of Toronto where almost every old church has been turned into condos.

[counterfactual]

Sounds like another outstanding Ghosn proposal.

Of course, it'll naturally be opposed by NIMBYs; hopefully, Council will have the spine to do what is right.

[alps]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

After the NIMBYs ran this proposal out of town on a rail, the church finally gave up and sold it:

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/met...d-to-developer

Sounds like a lose-lose for everyone.

(deleted because I realized I made the exact same rant in post #144 a year ago)

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

After the NIMBYs ran this proposal out of town on a rail, the church finally gave up and sold it:
Sounds like a lose-lose for everyone.

I don't know if it sounds so full of loserness.... yet... you might be right, and the developer might be stretching the truth about maintaining what's there, but if the mass of the building's to be kept as is suggested (the reporting may be stretching as well, I guess) with new apartments, I'd think the neighbours should be happy.

Church wins - sells its property
Neighbourhood wins - they don't feel someone's changing the physical fabric of the neighbourhood drastically (though, truth be told, I certainly didn't feel the former proposal was too big).
Developer wins - makes money (depending on if its a gigantic money pit)
Seniors lose - have to go elsewhere...

I'm not sure about your declaration that churches are "notorious" for making poor choices for conversion. I feel like I've seen several examples that appear successful (the former church on Queen St. is better than the one on Robie, in my opinion, but both are at least interesting), but never been pointed to anything that would build a case for notoriety.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by alps

... I attended the public hearings for this and the opposition was just absurd. One neighbour said she didn't want residents staring at her through their windows. One woman inexplicably started weeping at the microphone. The woman sitting next to me thought I was a reporter and told me she feared that "single mothers" would move into the neighbourhood as a result of this retirement home (???). Then there were the usual misplaced traffic fears. ....

Well, maybe the neighbours DO loose if their fears WEREN'T size, but were people with windows, single mothers, and cars...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I'm not sure about your declaration that churches are "notorious" for making poor choices for conversion. I feel like I've seen several examples that appear successful (the former church on Queen St. is better than the one on Robie, in my opinion, but both are at least interesting), but never been pointed to anything that would build a case for notoriety.

I was thinking about both of those when making my comment. The one on Robie was an early one in Halifax and did not turn out very well. The wall on Robie that was added to the front of the building masks some of the original design and looks rather unattractive. I believe the units are now rentals. The one on Queen was always challenging because the building was small to begin with and seems to have had a lot of turnover. It does not particularly "read" as a church in terms of design which may be a plus for some. I have never been inside but it appears rather cramped.

[ILoveHalifax]

From what I remember hearing over the years the church on Robie had lots of problems with their building - water, etc - I believe it was built on a swamp and god never fixed that problem despite a lot of prayer.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I was thinking about both of those when making my comment. The one on Robie was an early one in Halifax and did not turn out very well. The wall on Robie that was added to the front of the building masks some of the original design and looks rather unattractive. I believe the units are now rentals. The one on Queen was always challenging because the building was small to begin with and seems to have had a lot of turnover. It does not particularly "read" as a church in terms of design which may be a plus for some. I have never been inside but it appears rather cramped.

OK - your points may be quite valid. Not sure they equal notoriety as there are probably plenty of new builds from those periods that are 1) unattractive or 2) cramped with lots of turnover. It might be possible to convert a church in a way that avoids the problems you've identified with those two local examples.

It may also be impossible. I haven't tried, LOL.