Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada - Page 85

Aylmer · #**1681** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 3:32 AM**

Is it a uniquely QC Anglo thing to pronounce all the 'T's in "Toronto" and the 'N' in "Vancouver"?

theman23 · #**1682** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 4:44 AM**

delete

kwoldtimer · #**1683** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 12:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Is it a uniquely QC Anglo thing to pronounce all the 'T's in "Toronto" and the 'N' in "Vancouver"?

No.

SignalHillHiker · #**1684** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 12:34 PM**

I hear so many different pronunciations of Toronto here.

Tuh-ronno
Chuh-ronno
Tuh-ron-to
Tah-rahn-to
Chron-to

The most common is probably Chuh-rahn-to. Or, via Vid, "Chran-toe".

Sarah89 · #**1685** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 3:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I hear so many different pronunciations of Toronto here.

Tuh-ronno
Chuh-ronno
Tuh-ron-to
Tah-rahn-to
Chron-to

The most common is probably Chuh-rahn-to. Or, via Vid, "Chran-toe".

I live an hour south of Toronto and I've always said "churono" despite not ever living there. It's not a Toronto thing it's actually called "flapping" and it's one of the many components of Canadian or especially "southern Ontarion English".

Sarah89 · #**1686** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I find the opposite is true; I'm 'the younger' and I'm very proud of my accent (middle-class QC Anglo) because I find it more sophisticated. I've heard that Canadian English is one of the most universally intelligible accents. I tout my Canadian raising and short vowels with pride, not in spite of anything.

But then again, I'm brown, so being in the states is weird for me - people expect me to 'speak black', but I have a very hard time discerning thick African-American accents. Though I do truly believe that the Canadian accent is sophisticated on its own, I also use it as a way of highlighting the fact that I'm not a part of the whole American racial/cultural dichotomy.

Plus, Americans have a positive impression of Canadians - we're reputed to be polite, well-meaning and what many have described to me as cute. As far as national stereotypes go, we could do a lot worse.

That's great. So you're not embarrassed to say "aboat" or "oat"? I was. It was a silly complex I had to get over.

Aylmer · #**1687** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 3:40 PM**

Not at all. I'm not a fan of the elongated American vowels which all seem to tend towards "ah"; cup="cahp", hot="haht", out="ahout", and so on.

Acajack · #**1688** Posted **Mar 15, 2015, 5:54 PM**

RE: guys

Sort of related - it drives my wife absolutely bonkers when we are in a half-decent restaurant in Anglo-Canada or the US and the server refers to us as "guys".

esquire · #**1689** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 3:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Is it a uniquely QC Anglo thing to pronounce all the 'T's in "Toronto" and the 'N' in "Vancouver"?

I easily envision a Montreal anglo like Irwin Cotler strongly enunciating those letters.

esquire · #**1690** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 3:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

RE: guys

Sort of related - it drives my wife absolutely bonkers when we are in a half-decent restaurant in Anglo-Canada or the US and the server refers to us as "guys".

People do it because we have eliminated the T out of the T-V distinction in common, every day English. The fast way to make the point that you're talking to the collective you as opposed to the individual you is to add "guys", however crass you may think it is.

We seriously need to bring thee and thou back. What was wrong with those pronouns anyway?

lio45 · #**1691** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 4:12 AM**

Can't one use "you girls" the exact same way as "you guys"? And for a couple, I'd say "you two" instead "you guys". (For a gay couple, of course, "you guys" would work fine.)

For a larger mixed genders group, I suppose one can just say "you people" or "you lot".

kwoldtimer · #**1692** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 12:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I easily envision a Montreal anglo like Irwin Cotler strongly enunciating those letters.

With Cotler, is that Montreal Anglo or Montreal Jew? Two different accents, imho.

kwoldtimer · #**1693** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 12:41 PM**

[QUOTE=lio45;6952053]Can't one use "you girls" the exact same way as "you guys"? And for a couple, I'd say "you two" instead "you guys". (For a gay couple, of course, "you guys" would work fine.)

For a larger mixed genders group, I suppose one can just say "you people" or "you lot".[/QUOTE]

That would have a disrespectful ring to it. I'd prefer "you folks", if "you" needs to be embellished.

Acajack · #**1694** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 12:44 PM**

My observations...

They'd almost never say "you girls" for a group of adult women.

It would always be "ladies".

For a group of men it would be "you guys" or "gentlemen".

But for a male-female couple or two m-f couples, for some reason, "you guys" is by far the most common.

Acajack · #**1695** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 12:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

People do it because we have eliminated the T out of the T-V distinction in common, every day English. The fast way to make the point that you're talking to the collective you as opposed to the individual you is to add "guys", however crass you may think it is.

We seriously need to bring thee and thou back. What was wrong with those pronouns anyway?

Good explanation but what do you mean by T-V?

To a francophone it sounds like you are referring to "tu" (informal) and "vous" (formal).

lio45 · #**1696** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 1:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Good explanation but what do you mean by T-V?

To a francophone it sounds like you are referring to "tu" (informal) and "vous" (formal).

That has to be it, except with one little distinction, he's likely (IMO) referring to tu as the second person singular, and vous as the second person plural, not as the formal form to address a single individual.

Interestingly, and as you're fully aware, there's a similar disctinction between"vous" (which can be used to address both a single person or a group) and "vous autres" (to address a group of people informally). In usage, it does remind me of "you" vs "you guys".

kwoldtimer · #**1697** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 1:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

My observations...

They'd almost never say "you girls" for a group of adult women.

It would always be "ladies".

For a group of men it would be "you guys" or "gentlemen".

But for a male-female couple or two m-f couples, for some reason, "you guys" is by far the most common.

All true. And nowadays, you better have a knowing smile on your face when you say "ladies".

Acajack · #**1698** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 1:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

All true. And nowadays, you better have a knowing smile on your face when you say "ladies".

All of this discussion only further confirms for me that French is better!

lio45 · #**1699** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 1:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That would have a disrespectful ring to it. I'd prefer "you folks", if "you" needs to be embellished.

Ok! (I was kinda thinking that "you people" might also be poorly perceived on people belonging to a clear ethnic group.)

"You bunch", could that work?

There's also "You all" (or y'all for short) that seems to fill that exact purpose quite well...

Of course, as you rightly point out, there's nothing wrong with just "you"

As a waiter it would also bug me to have to use "you guys" on two hetero couples. I'd find a way to avoid the classic "How are you guys doing today?" and go for something like "How are the four of you doing today?" or "How are you all doing today?"

kwoldtimer · #**1700** Posted **Mar 16, 2015, 1:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Ok! (I was kinda thinking that "you people" might also be poorly perceived on people belonging to a clear ethnic group.)

"You bunch", could that work?

There's also "You all" (or y'all for short) that seems to fill that exact purpose quite well...

Of course, as you rightly point out, there's nothing wrong with just "you"

As a waiter it would also bug me to have to use "you guys" on two hetero couples. I'd find a way to avoid the classic "How are you guys doing today?" and go for something like "How are the four of you doing today?" or "How are you all doing today?"

You'd certainly hear that in parts of the States (from about Washington DC north. To the south it might be "all you all"). "How is everyone doing today?" could also work.