DENVER | Transportation Thread

[TakeFive]

Thank you President George W. Bush

This is fascinating (to me). I decided to check up on the Twin Cities.

What planners need to learn from the problems facing Southwest Light Rail
March 31, 2022 By Bill Lindeke - MINNPOST


Courtesy Metropolitan Council

Last week, Gov. Tim Walz signed a bill, passed unanimously in the Senate and with only one dissenting vote in the House, requiring an audit of the under-construction Southwest Light Rail project (aka the Green Line Extension). Running from Downtown Minneapolis to Eden Prairie, the light rail line is currently vastly over-budget and behind schedule. Needing a minimum of $500 million in additional funding, the best-case opening date for the line is now 2027, over a decade later than initially hoped.

There's a lot of discussion about the choice of route made. This line was studied and debated during the 1990's & 2000's leading to a decision in 2009.

While it might have seemed like a good idea at the time, that 2009 routing vote will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in Twin Cities planning history. Nearly everything that could have gone wrong with that route choice has gone wrong, often spectacularly.

Something I learned today

During most of the project planning period, under then-President George W. Bush, the federal formula was infamously anti-urban. It placed nearly all its scoring emphasis on attracting new suburban riders, while giving almost no credit for improving transit for existing people living in urban neighborhoods like Uptown.

I probably see this differently from most "traditionalists" but this change of 'scoring' is what opened up the light rail transit market to cities west of the Mississippi, cities in flyover country to attain light rail projects. Cities like Denver, Minneapolis, Dallas, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, San Diego etc were enabled to win buckets of federal funds. Denver's nearly $2 billion in federal funding are more like $5 to $6 billion in today's dollars.

FWIW, the Green Line extension is 14.5 miles and the latest cost guestimate is $2.75 billion or nearly $200 per mile.

For all the moaning and blemishes with FasTracks I have more confidence than ever that this will be the best transportation decision the metro area has ever made.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

For all the moaning and blemishes with FasTracks I have more confidence than ever that this will be the best transportation decision the metro area has ever made.

Because you don't live here. I thought about this as I was driving over the N line on I-76 last night and saw a station in the middle of nowhere - distant even from the surrounding industrial area. And I struck up a conversation with my wife about CDOT using the existence of that joke of a rail station as an excuse to starve our roads and force people to use their available alternatives. And I found myself again thinking, a part of me wishes Fastracks had never happened. Because it has killed transit and roads in this town for a generation and condemned us all to worse infrastructure. COVID, and the advent of work from home, is our saving grace.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Because you don't live here. I thought about this as I was driving over the N line on I-76 last night and saw a station in the middle of nowhere - distant even from the surrounding industrial area. And I struck up a conversation with my wife about CDOT using the existence of that joke of a rail station as an excuse to starve our roads and force people to use their available alternatives. And I found myself again thinking, a part of me wishes Fastracks had never happened. Because it has killed transit and roads in this town for a generation and condemned us all to worse infrastructure. COVID, and the advent of work from home, is our saving grace.

Meh. A Line works great for me so I'm going to go with the f**k you, I've got mine and say that transit is great in this cowtown.

[TakeFive]

Thanks for indulging me

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Because you don't live here. I thought about this as I was driving over the N line on I-76 last night and saw a station in the middle of nowhere - distant even from the surrounding industrial area. And I struck up a conversation with my wife about CDOT using the existence of that joke of a rail station as an excuse to starve our roads and force people to use their available alternatives. And I found myself again thinking, a part of me wishes Fastracks had never happened. Because it has killed transit and roads in this town for a generation and condemned us all to worse infrastructure. COVID, and the advent of work from home, is our saving grace.

Consider that:
When I left Denver the NW Corner of I-25 and Belleview was of little interest to anyone. There was a No-tell budget motel, a Golf driving range, a few eateries, an industrial facility and weed-infested fields. I assume the only reason they put a light rail station there was b/c Belleview was nearby.

It only took 15 years to figure out that TOD was not a brew pub.

Consider that:
when I rode the rails in June of 2017, I recall, while riding the 'A' Line, thinking "what an odd place to put a train station" at 38th and Blake St. It was nothing more than an industrial waste land. Who was the dummy that thought that was a good idea?

Only one anecdotal example, still:
Minneapolis hopes to finish for no more than $2.75 billion the 14.5-mile Green Line extension. Given the 'cut and cover' segment, the ~$200 million per mile is actually reasonable at today's $'s.

For $2.75 billion Denver built the G Line, the 'A' Line, the B Line to Westminster Station PLUS the DUS below grade bus hall and at grade promenade between the commuter rail and light rail lines.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Because you don't live here.

It is fair to say I've learn to appreciate a superb freeway and grid system. In 2025, MAG - the equivalent of DRCOG - will complete 40 years of a dedicated half percent sales tax. Before then the voters will be asked for another 20 years.

That tax has also helped to fund light rail and a streetcar in Tempe.

But I've always said the two metro areas are very different, that Denver metro is more of a hybrid.

Props to Ken for his recent effort of Summer 2022 Infill Summary

But even with the explosive growth in and around downtown Denver there is still no ideal transit corridor - outside of the long time East Colfax Corridor.

Anecdotally, when I rode the W Line out to the Taj Mahal, walked around and convinced the security guard he should let me pee inside before heading back into downtown, I've been convinced of light rail's wisdom. My return trip started around/after 11:00 AM on a Sunday Morning. The train cars were nearly full with two types of riders. There were the 'young adults' with their torn jeans and colored hair heading to the 16th Street Mall and there were baseball fans heading to the Rockies game.

The other thing worth pointing out is the growing nuisance with many riders who take da bus and it's not just in Denver. It seems to be a growing issue in most cities from growing homelessness and drug addiction issues. This seems to be much less of a problem with Light Rail, due to its suburb to city profile. From a farebox recovery rate, light rail brings a much better return. That's not a small item to consider.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Because you don't live here. I thought about this as I was driving over the N line on I-76 last night and saw a station in the middle of nowhere - distant even from the surrounding industrial area. And I struck up a conversation with my wife about CDOT using the existence of that joke of a rail station as an excuse to starve our roads and force people to use their available alternatives. And I found myself again thinking, a part of me wishes Fastracks had never happened. Because it has killed transit and roads in this town for a generation and condemned us all to worse infrastructure. COVID, and the advent of work from home, is our saving grace.

Yep.

And it serves as a bad example for anti-transit people to use for decades to come. “Look what happened the last time they asked for billions of dollars for transit that would supposedly solve all our problems.”

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

The other thing worth pointing out is the growing nuisance with many riders who take da bus and it's not just in Denver. It seems to be a growing issue in most cities from growing homelessness and drug addiction issues. This seems to be much less of a problem with Light Rail, due to its suburb to city profile. From a farebox recovery rate, light rail brings a much better return. That's not a small item to consider.

Apparently you haven't been riding the light rail..... which you haven't done so in five years. The loitering problem is as bad if not worse on the light rail cars due to the lack of an operator on them. It's much easier to light up some blue meth there than on the bus. Commuter rail has less of an issue due to the security officer walking up and down the train.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Apparently you haven't been riding the light rail..... which you haven't done so in five years. The loitering problem is as bad if not worse on the light rail cars due to the lack of an operator on them. It's much easier to light up some blue meth there than on the bus. Commuter rail has less of an issue due to the security officer walking up and down the train.

My opinions/impressions come from reading about various systems and not just riding one rail line.

While I didn't post about it, San Diego opened an 11-mile Blue Line extension up to the University in La Jolla on November 21, 2021. It's doing quite well partly thanks to connecting to a well-regarded research university and San Diego transit has recovered 70% of their pre-pandemic ridership.

So you're saying that meth-heads are riding down to Mineral Station or out to the Federal Center/Taj Mahal? Color me skeptical that this is the rampant problem you suggest. I do understand the security officer influence on commuter trains though.

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Yep.

And it serves as a bad example for anti-transit people to use for decades to come. “Look what happened the last time they asked for billions of dollars for transit that would supposedly solve all our problems.”

Name one city where you think rail transit has solved all their problems? That's not even a realistic goal.

Did you take note that Denver's ten rail transit lines with 50 stations currently carries 55% of the ridership of the whole bus route network of 9,000 bus stops? At what ridership point would you consider rail a success?

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

IName one city where you think rail transit has solved all their problems? That's not even a realistic goal.

Did you take note that Denver's ten rail transit lines with 50 stations currently carries 55% of the ridership of the whole bus route network of 9,000 bus stops? At what ridership point would you consider rail a success?

Woah, take it easy! That wasn’t me; that was Average Joe Anti-transit Voter Guy! He was told back when he voted for it, it would end the gridlock by taking cars off the road and give us all a better way to get around. Average Joe Anti-transit Voter Guy tends to have hyperbolic opinions that aren’t very nuanced.

I personally would consider rail a success when it changes Denver into a place where people can live without relying on a car - when we get a system that takes people where they actually need to go instead of this freeway-hugging park-n-ride crap. It cost us a massive fortune. We could have gotten so much more with those dollars but now we’re going to have to wait forever for what we really need because we’re still paying out the ass for this misguided, “get people from a massive concrete slab in the suburbs to their office building downtown,” antiquated, 90’s ideal of a transit system - which won’t even be complete (without coming up with even more billions) for decades. We bet the farm on this thing.

One great thing we did get out of it though - probably the only truly successful part - is a train to the airport. And coincidentally, that train to the airport happens to be the only line that spawned substantial, city-changing TOD. Man did that line work out. But the rest of it? Probably wasn’t worth blowing our wad.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

I personally would consider rail a success when it changes Denver into a place where people can live without relying on a car - when we get a system that takes people where they actually need to go instead of this freeway-hugging park-n-ride crap.

We can agree to disagree as the gulf between us is waay too big to overcome. Couple of points though.

There is no system of fixed route transit that would take people where they need to go. Despite the impressive (growing) density downtown, as much as 85% of the jobs lie outside of downtown and are scattered around the whole metro area. The vast majority of people either don't live (conveniently) near transit or transit doesn't go near where their job is. That's not to say that transit can't still provide worthwhile transportation for the many who CAN benefit from it.

Generally, rail transit is designed as a commuter function. It's not intended to take one a few blocks for groceries etc etc.

Even the well-known Bus Rapid Transit systems in Latin America like in Curitiba, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia are commuter systems. What does make them work so well is Latin America's high density corridors.

While Denver is developing some really nice high density areas like in RiNo, Golden Triangle etc they're not suitable for rail transit (unless you'd like a streetcar running through the neighborhoods). A rule of thumb for light/commuter rail is that stations are best sited a mile apart. That wouldn't work for downtown. Additionally, despite the growing density in areas there still are no any high density corridors. The metro area wasn't built that way.

It is fair to point out that even post-COVID, for the 75,000 daily ridership on the existing rail system those riders are happy with FasTracks.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Thanks for indulging me

Consider that:
When I left Denver the NW Corner of I-25 and Belleview was of little interest to anyone. There was a No-tell budget motel, a Golf driving range, a few eateries, an industrial facility and weed-infested fields. I assume the only reason they put a light rail station there was b/c Belleview was nearby.

It only took 15 years to figure out that TOD was not a brew pub.

Consider that:
when I rode the rails in June of 2017, I recall, while riding the 'A' Line, thinking "what an odd place to put a train station" at 38th and Blake St. It was nothing more than an industrial waste land. Who was the dummy that thought that was a good idea?

Only one anecdotal example, still:
Minneapolis hopes to finish for no more than $2.75 billion the 14.5-mile Green Line extension. Given the 'cut and cover' segment, the ~$200 million per mile is actually reasonable at today's $'s.

For $2.75 billion Denver built the G Line, the 'A' Line, the B Line to Westminster Station PLUS the DUS below grade bus hall and at grade promenade between the commuter rail and light rail lines.

A classic case of confusing causation with correlation. With the correct zoning, there are few TODs in the metro that couldn't, or wouldn't, have developed similarly without the transit. Can't prove the counterfactual, of course.

Now, if you say the transit is the reason for the zoning, I'd be hard-pressed to disagree. But that's an awfully pricy investment to convince policymakers to do something they could just as easily do with no investment. Worth exploring, at least, what other excuses or bribery could get us to the same mediocre accomplishment.

[bunt_q]

Also, there are no commuters. That model is dead. Transit needs a new model. If we are conceding "there is no system of fixed route transit that would take people where they need to go" outside of that function, then there is no longer a need for fixed rail transit.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Also, there are no commuters. That model is dead. Transit needs a new model. If we are conceding "there is no system of fixed route transit that would take people where they need to go" outside of that function, then there is no longer a need for fixed rail transit.

It's interesting in that many Denver transit fans have wanted to compare or idolize Seattle for their rail transit and RapidRide projects.

Consider that Seattle is in the process of spending 3X what FasTracks cost RTD and that's on top of previously spending Half or more of what FasTracks cost.

And BTW, most of the current (ST3) light rail projects will be suburb to city, or suburban extensions to already existing urban lines and will indeed largely follow freeway ROW or major arterial routes but are often above grade-separated and most stations are at least one mile apart, sometime more than a mile.

Consider that Denver RTD, with recovering revenue will collect as much as $775 million is sales and use taxes in 2022 while Seattle will collect over $2 billion in ST3 taxes and fees. With enough revenue it's easier to create whatever your heart desire.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Bloomberg - City Lab Transportation

FWIW, I've come to the conclusion that Denver RTD is in much better shape than many might think - at least compared to many agencies that are looking at a really big cliff ahead.

Some of you probably think I just throw things against the wall; Nope, I have inside insight.

A silver lining to RTD’s ongoing driver shortage? It has a pile of cash to pay down train debt
July 14, 2022 By Nathaniel Minor - CPR News

A - Due to the shortage of drivers as well as low ridership, RTD was forced to cut back service even beyond what they initially planned. In essence they got rid of service that wasn't needed and instead of pouring money down a rathole they put extra money in the bank.

B - They've arranged with some banks for new financing; RTD will both pay down debt and save on the interest rate.

NOTE: RTD originally used a chunk of COP'S to help fund FasTracks and evade TABOR restrictions but it came at a higher rate. Between having extra money and refinancing (at a lower rate) they'll pay off the COP's.

C - Through wise cash management RTD currently has $516 million in cash on hand.

A few things have helped improve RTD’s short-term financial picture: The agency has collected more sales and use taxes than expected and has received millions of dollars of additional revenue from the 2021 federal infrastructure law. RTD also has $350 million remaining in federal COVID relief reimbursements from which it can draw.

RTD intentionally held back COVID relief funds to disperse in 2023 and 2024.

RTD still faces a TABOR cliff in 2025 and they intend to ask voters for a “de-Brucing” approval, but that's for later.

[TakeFive]

Hallelujah

RTD board OKs bus network overhaul that will put focus on the city, away from the suburbs
July 26, 2022 By Nathaniel Minor - CPR News

The Regional Transportation District’s board of directors on Tuesday approved a dramatic overhaul of its bus network that will favor more frequent service in high-ridership areas over relatively little-used lines in suburban and rural areas.

The plan, which will be carried out incrementally over the next five years, is the biggest overhaul of the metro area’s bus system since the 1970s... It also includes modest changes to the light- and commuter-rail system.

Interesting comment and perspective

Transit advocates say they support the plan and its priorities, given the state of RTD’s precarious long-term budget and the lack of other funding sources.

But Molly Mckinley, policy director for the Denver Streets Partnership, told the board Tuesday that the service levels baked into the plan aren’t high enough, “to serve the region and meet our air quality, climate and access and safety goals.”

Why are people with the Denver Streets Partnership so cranky? lol

Many people with various transit agencies around the country act as though soon it will be 2017 again and we'll just carry on from there. Basically their bias clouds their ability to use a sober lens to assess things.

If you'd be interested in something hilarious and sad, check this out.
Getting off the bus: How Charlotte Transit lost 75% of its passengers in less than a decade

Ofc, every city is different "We're different from those guys."

It seems most cities have had trouble with hiring/retaining bus drivers; some cities have had more trouble than others in bringing back bus riders. Denver seems to have had some luck on many of their routes but I can't really speak with any specificity. It seems that many previous riders decided they really don't like riding the bus (or maybe they now work from home). I've read that there's been a lot feedback about the deteriorating quality of the experience ie homelessness, crime/drugs etc.

The idea of getting additional funding from the State was mentioned. Sounds like a non-starter to me.

[TakeFive]

How to improve RTD? Transit advocates launch push for big investment in system
September 1, 2022 By Jon Murray - The Denver Post

Transit advocates who gathered Wednesday to celebrate the Regional Transportation District’s fare-free August on its final day launched a new alliance that will push for more investment in public transportation in metro Denver.

Here’s what they envision: More frequent bus service, connecting more places. Upgrades of substandard bus stops. Road corridors improved to speed up bus travel. The goals set out by the new Alliance to Transform Transportation are aimed at attracting larger numbers of devoted riders...

The new "Alliance" comes courtesy Danny Katz/CoPIRG and is basically pure textbook stuff. The article is well balanced though.

Recent updates from Standard & Poor's, Fitch and Bloomberg Business News now suggest some agencies may recover pre-pandemic levels of ridership by the end of 2025 while others may not get there until the end of the decade.

While there's nothing particularly wrong with repeating the textbook vision over and over and over, it seems like their energies might be more productive if they focused on the issues at hand, but that's just me.

[TakeFive]

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%20%281%29.pdf

I-70 Floyd Hill to Veterans Memorial Tunnels Improvements
INFRA Award: $100,000,000
Clear Creek County, Colorado

Applicant: Colorado Department of Transportation
Urban or Rural: Rural

Project Description: The project will improve approximately 8 miles of the I-70 Mountain Corridor, from west of Evergreen to eastern Idaho Springs. It will add a third westbound travel lane, construct a frontage road connection, add a new ramp from US 6 to eastbound I-70, and improve design speed and sight distance on horizontal curves. The project also improves the
Clear Creek Greenway multimodal trail and implements environmental mitigation efforts including installing wildlife crossings and fencing and restoring nearby creek and wetland areas. It will also install electric vehicle infrastructure and shuttle parking to support transit operations in the corridor.

[Whereveryougo]

The situation around Union Station has really improved the last few weeks, surely I'm not the only one to see this. My question is, where did all those people go?

[TakeFive]

Good to hear

Originally Posted by Whereveryougo

The situation around Union Station has really improved the last few weeks, surely I'm not the only one to see this. My question is, where did all those people go?

Hopefully, they all went to some other Happy Place.
-------------------------------------

Props to Denverite for a non-social equity article

DIA budget projects 2023 traffic will exceed pre-pandemic levels
September 28, 2022 by Rebecca Tauber/Denverite

Through August of 2022, DIA’s traffic was only 2 percent lower than before the pandemic. The airport expects to see 74 million passengers in 2023, higher than the 69 million in 2019.

“This is based on strong demand trends and the full availability of 39 new gates at the Airport,” wrote DIA officials in its budget presentation to City Council Wednesday. “Domestic leisure travel is recovering at a faster pace than business travel... The airport’s hotel figures match this assessment. According to the presentation, transient and leisure bookings were strong, but business and group revenue has lagged.

FWIW, hotel conference business has noticeably picked up in Scottsdale so I'd assume this will or is happening in Denver also.

[wong21fr]

DIA continues to look at alternatives to concourse train as a backup in case of failure. Looks like DIA leadership has a preference for some long-ass bridges that would connect A to B and B to C given preliminary cost estimates make them competitive with tunneling with the added benefit of being freakin' gorgeous. However, a tunnel walkway isn't ruled out given some of the other long-term plans for a fourth concourse that would necessitate an expansion to the train and taking another go at an automated baggage system.


Could soaring bridges, gondolas, futuristic pods — or even just a walking tunnel — soon connect DIA’s concourses