The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

^Yeah when my brother used Car2GO, the rednecks up around Wasaga Beach and Barrie would coal roll him: happened once when I was along for the ride. I couldn't figure out why a jacked up pickup was backing slowly towards us; suddenly we were blasted with black soot.

I tracked down the RAM to a house in Milverton - possibly an evil Amish/Mennonite?! (It's a distinctive c.2000 RAM with tacky mods.)

Even when I drove the mk4 Golf, pick up drivers would suddenly speed up on the 401 etc when I passed them at 130kph, especially between Oshawa and Kingston area.

Anyway, small used ICE hatchbacks still provide a fun driving experience for little money.

I live in Barrie and have yet to be coal rolled. Lots of truck driving rednecks up here though. I have had many try to race me..., mostly young punks in their heavily modded beaters. No chance they come even close though, I smoke them every time then let out a nice little custom horn for them haha.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Each to their own though, I understand not everyone is like me. I respect that. I will say however it does bother me when people try to tell me how to live my life. If you aren't into cars that's great, good for you. But others are...so respect that.

I think we all respect a person's right to individual taste and preferences but it's a mistake to view attempts to address wide-scale societal and environmental problems as a personal attack. Nor is it reasonable to expect personal taste to exclude large-scale technologies or infrastructure from scrutiny in terms of their practical, environmental and economic implications.

Any large-scale policy decision will affect individual people's lives, and all those effects will need to be carefully considered. Not because of an attempt to control people, but because living in a society means your life is inevitably affected by the lives of other people and by societal structures. I hope you'll always be able to find ways to enjoy life as society changes in response to the environmental crisis. But just be careful not to oppose policies out of fear of losing something you enjoy without considering how the policy may help preserve things equally loved by others - or yourself - that are threatened by climate change.

[Denscity]

Lots of big black one ton diesels here as well and I have heard of the term "rollin coal" never heard of or seen anyone getting "coal rolled".

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I think we all respect a person's right to individual taste and preferences but it's a mistake to view attempts to address wide-scale societal and environmental problems as a personal attack. Nor is it reasonable to expect personal taste to exclude large-scale technologies or infrastructure from scrutiny in terms of their practical, environmental and economic implications.

Any large-scale policy decision will affect individual people's lives, and all those effects will need to be carefully considered. Not because of an attempt to control people, but because living in a society means your life is inevitably affected by the lives of other people and by societal structures. I hope you'll always be able to find ways to enjoy life as society changes in response to the environmental crisis. But just be careful not to oppose policies out of fear of losing something you enjoy without considering how the policy may help preserve things equally loved by others - or yourself - that are threatened by climate change.

All Im saying is, who cares if I rent a car through a ride share program or I buy it out right? The car world is going electric and I support that. But I should have the right to own a car rather than "share" one.

[urbandreamer]

I've been more environmentally friendly than any Tesla owner: never owned a car until 2 years ago! I rarely fly - the wealthy love to preach to us poor people but then they consume consume consume!

[homebucket]

Doug DeMuro gave his car of the year award to the Rivian R1T. This car is picking up awards left and right (won Motor Trend Truck of the Year).

His ranking. It's notable that 3 out of his top 5 were EVs.
1. Rivian R1T
2. Tesla Model S Plaid
3. Ford Maverick
4. Lucid Air
5. BMW M3

• Video Link

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Cool. So you're just going to ignore all the other examples?

I even gave the example of Utrecht, a metro that's about the population of Ottawa.

As someone who is from London, you should understand better than most how much car dependency and sprawl can hurt a city. With no highways, most development at the fringe, and crap transit, London just keeps piling traffic on to their arterials. How's that working out?

It has given us (here in London) the worst of all worlds. Stroadsville and Big Box Barf, with a downtown that, although slowly improving, is still struggling mightily.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Another thing holding back EV sales, besides the huge purchase price, is the anxiety of how long the batteries will last and how much it will cost to replace them.

Who says EV sales are being held back? There are massive waitlists and/or dealer gouging to get your hands on a new EV today in North America.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I've been more environmentally friendly than any Tesla owner: never owned a car until 2 years ago! I rarely fly - the wealthy love to preach to us poor people but then they consume consume consume!

Good thing the wealthy are out there paying luxury taxes on their Teslas for you take subsidized transportation.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Who says EV sales are being held back? There are massive waitlists and/or dealer gouging to get your hands on a new EV today in North America.

Yes there are huge waitlists for EVs but that is only for those that can afford them ie 20% of the population. These are the same people who have no financial problems of replacing their cars every 5 years for a new one.

For most people however that is not an option. This means for them that the resale value of their car really matters. They may be able to afford an EV right now but can't afford to replace it every few years and hence they are going to be facing a whopping cost of battery replacement or getting little when it comes to resale.

For myself, I have a 2019 Nissan Kicks but I can tell you that if I found out that in 8 years I'm going to have to spend $10k to keep it running, there is no way in hell I would have bought it.

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes there are huge waitlists for EVs but that is only for those that can afford them ie 20% of the population. These are the same people who have no financial problems of replacing their cars every 5 years for a new one.

For most people however that is not an option. This means for them that the resale value of their car really matters. They may be able to afford an EV right now but can't afford to replace it every few years and hence they are going to be facing a whopping cost of battery replacement or getting little when it comes to resale.

For myself, I have a 2019 Nissan Kicks but I can tell you that if I found out that in 8 years I'm going to have to spend $10k to keep it running, there is no way in hell I would have bought it.

Im sorry but I don't buy this nonsense that only a small percentage of elite buyers can afford EVs. The base line Tesla 3 starts at 59K Canadian plus tax. The upgraded model is 66K plus tax. Do you know how many Ford F150's/Raptors, Dodge RAMS, Chevy Sierra's/GMC trucks I see driving around my area? Every middle class blue collar dude I meet is driving around with a 60-110k pick up truck. Add in all the BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes, Acuras I see in the GTA (all 50K+ cars) and really whats the difference?

Some EV's are insanely expensive yes, but there are many options in the 40-70k range. Not in the average students budget I will give you that, but prices are continuing to drop and will only get better as the years go on. I feel like people complain because there is no $20,000 EV Hyundai Accent equivalent.

Also, the batteries are not going to be worthless in 8 years, if you charge them properly and care for them there's no reason why you can't maintain 60-70% of your battery 8 years down the road. Tesla for instance has the LPF battery which goes into the base model 2022 Model 3's and Y's which don't degrade at all. In fact in lab tests the batteries essentially maintain 99% of their charge up to 1 million miles driven. Meaning the car will still have 430KM range in 10 years time, the same as when you bought it. The future of batteries will be this way.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Who says EV sales are being held back? There are massive waitlists and/or dealer gouging to get your hands on a new EV today in North America.

LOL. Seriously. Where do people come up with this crap?

There's such a shortage that the markups are just insane. Just days ago, they had a story in the US of a Mercedes dealer asking for a $50k markup on a $119k EQS.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/31...markup-to-eqs/

There's a shortage of cars. And there's a particularly exacerbated shortage of EVs.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Im sorry but I don't buy this nonsense that only a small percentage of elite buyers can afford EVs. The base line Tesla 3 starts at 59K Canadian plus tax. The upgraded model is 66K plus tax. Do you know how many Ford F150's/Raptors, Dodge RAMS, Chevy Sierra's/GMC trucks I see driving around my area? Every middle class blue collar dude I meet is driving around with a 60-110k pick up truck. Add in all the BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes, Acuras I see in the GTA (all 50K+ cars) and really whats the difference?

Some EV's are insanely expensive yes, but there are many options in the 40-70k range. Not in the average students budget I will give you that, but prices are continuing to drop and will only get better as the years go on. I feel like people complain because there is no $20,000 EV Hyundai Accent equivalent.

There's two kinds of folks who complain about the price of EVs in my opinion:

1) Those who genuinely want a cheaper option that they would buy.

2) Those who want a socially acceptable excuse (as per their perception) on why they bought their gas guzzling SUV, pickup, etc. "I would have bought an electric, be there's no CUV/SUV/pickup that is electric at that price."

ssiguy seems like the former, but then you get the decade old FUD about worrying about battery replacements. So who knows.

We'll be hearing all kinds of FUD for the rest of the decade. And the cycles in which they happen are interesting and revealing in and of themselves. First these was the fearmongering on range and charging. But as longer range and faster charging cars came, that talking point went away. The battery replacement FUD is part of this OG set of points. After that came the, "A Hummer is more environmentally friendly than a Tesla because mineral mining and coal power." That's been fading as they learn that most people don't care and it's obviously disingenuous when the alternative is burning more fossil fuels. So lately, it's "the grid is going to collapse if we all drive EVs" and, "we'll run out of minerals to build enough EVs". Neither of which is categorically true. It's going to be entertaining to see what they come up with next.

Originally Posted by travis3000

Also, the batteries are not going to be worthless in 8 years, if you charge them properly and care for them there's no reason why you can't maintain 60-70% of your battery 8 years down the road. Tesla for instance has the LPF battery which goes into the base model 2022 Model 3's and Y's which don't degrade at all. In fact in lab tests the batteries essentially maintain 99% of their charge up to 1 million miles driven. Meaning the car will still have 430KM range in 10 years time, the same as when you bought it. The future of batteries will be this way.

I'm really looking forward to a lot more LFP battery options on the market over the next few years. Regular folks don't need sub 5 second 0-60 mph on the family SUV. LFPs are cheaper, longer lasting and you can charge to 100% without battery degradation fears. Downside is a bit more weight. That's a decent tradeoff for anybody who is not a speed demon.

[urbandreamer]

I noticed the Guelph Hyundai dealership has a few IONIQ 5's in stock: not bad looking but they're huge. Not exactly an ePony.

I've driven plenty electric forklift trucks to understand the appeal of electric cars; however, I'm very cheap and my income isn't stable (I may get a real job this year.) I also rent and because I rent in cheaper/older buildings, it'll be decades before the landlords adapt to electric vehicles. And even if I continue to drive 30,000km yearly, my Micra should easily last to 300,000km - by the early 2030s there may be better electric cars that fit my needs.

Electric car sales are booming because along with real estate, bitcoin and the stock market, the wealthiest 20% seem to have ever expanding cash flow. The next five years will be interesting: will the 30% in the middle buy all these mainstream electric cars by Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler etc?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes there are huge waitlists for EVs but that is only for those that can afford them ie 20% of the population. These are the same people who have no financial problems of replacing their cars every 5 years for a new one.

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too busy!" Great logic.

That's the same as any new car. Not everybody buys new, and those who don't wait for things to filter down to the used market.

Not to mention that the up front cost of EVs is paid back over time in less maintenance and gas.

[MolsonExport]

Are EVs that much more expensive than the current crop of prickup trucks that every second person seems to be using to haul their lardasses around in?

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Are EVs that much more expensive than the current crop of prickup trucks that every second person seems to be using to haul their lardasses around in?

In many cases EV's are cheaper. Living in Barrie (the land of the pickup truck), I can attest to this. Every guy I know is driving around in some sort of truck. My dad just bought one, as did a landscaper friend of mine, as did another good friend of mine. These trucks are all going for 60K minimum, many are 80-100K.

Add in the $400/month in fuel these things are consuming and you legit have people here paying over $1200 per month in cost of ownership on a new pickup truck. Yet here's me paying half that amount for my Tesla and Im some entitled rich top 1% snob? Give me a break.

[MolsonExport]

In London, it seems that the majority of people driving pickup trucks do so solely for the purpose of going through a Tim Horton's drive thru.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by travis3000

In many cases EV's are cheaper. Living in Barrie (the land of the pickup truck), I can attest to this. Every guy I know is driving around in some sort of truck. My dad just bought one, as did a landscaper friend of mine, as did another good friend of mine. These trucks are all going for 60K minimum, many are 80-100K.

Add in the $400/month in fuel these things are consuming and you legit have people here paying over $1200 per month in cost of ownership on a new pickup truck. Yet here's me paying half that amount for my Tesla and Im some entitled rich top 1% snob? Give me a break.

Pickups are expensive. Maybe you’re hanging around too many local yokels, but I don’t get the impression that anyone here thinks BEVs are 1%er cars. The average new car price has steadily increased to more than 40k, which is in splitting distance of a Tesla Model 3 and right at the entry point of cheaper BEVs. The barrier to entry has more to do with access to cheap reliable charging than it does price per se, although it would be nice if there were some sub 40k options.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by theman23

Pickups are expensive. Maybe you’re hanging around too many local yokels, but I don’t get the impression that anyone here thinks BEVs are 1%er cars. The average new car price has steadily increased to more than 40k, which is in splitting distance of a Tesla Model 3 and right at the entry point of cheaper BEVs. The barrier to entry has more to do with access to cheap reliable charging than it does price per se, although it would be nice if there were some sub 40k options.

Yep.

The VW ID4 starts at $33k and Ford Mustang Mach-E at $36k (after federal tax credits).

A base F-150 SuperCrew with 5.5' bed starts at $37k.