PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Redddog

When has the ink ever taken the "everything is fine" road?

The headline, especially when taken with their normal "Philly is a hell hole" stance is more of the same from them. You expect the city to eradicate the poverty issue overnight? We're at multi decade lows. This should be overwhelmingly positive. You see that headline with a positive spin? It's not.

It may as well have been "You think Philly is getting somewhere? Well it isn't."

So your honest position is that everything published on inquirer.com is designed to prove that Philadelphia is a terrible city? As I said, people are too sensitive- there is plenty on there related to restaurants, activities and positive happenings in the city. Seems that people are being selective in what they read or at least to what they admit to remembering they read.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Did you read the article?

Your interpretation of my annoyance is incorrect. My annoyance is that a promising Pew Report (the best I have seen in years) is still reported as a "glass-half-empty". Philly Mag did a nice job digging into the various details with a less subjective slant.

The Inky's MO is to be take a negative slant, it is what it is... If you can't see that, then let's agree to disagree.



From the article... Is this really necessary?

So is this report a win for the self-described “Philly boosters” or do the city’s public health and safety concerns wipe out any gains?

My only ask is that the Inky refrain a bit more from the glass-half-empty-approach. An organization can report on the positives and negatives without the clouded lens.

But in summary, a lot of promise for the years ahead.

I read the damn article. I didn't read into the way you did- but its obvious that you have axe to grind with Inq so my guess is it doesn't really matter what was said you would still be mad. The Pew report did not say everything was perfect in Philly and the article reflected that- not sure how that is rampant bias. Some of you are totally out of touch with the City outside of your pocket. The other day news helicopters were over near my house covering a story of a teenager shot in the foot in broad daylight- and I'm not even in a "bad" area. This is reality for too much of this city- even if its not where you live. Blaming residents or the paper of record for acknowledging serious problems is absurd.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by cardeza

I read the damn article. I didn't read into the way you did- but its obvious that you have axe to grind with Inq so my guess is it doesn't really matter what was said you would still be mad. The Pew report did not say everything was perfect in Philly and the article reflected that- not sure how that is rampant bias. Some of you are totally out of touch with the City outside of your pocket. The other day news helicopters were over near my house covering a story of a teenager shot in the foot in broad daylight- and I'm not even in a "bad" area. This is reality for too much of this city- even if its not where you live. Blaming residents or the paper of record for acknowledging serious problems is absurd.

You’re missing the point.

Every city has problems, but I’ve never seen a city get covered in this manner. The Inky ALWAYS adds the “but” to every piece of good news the city gets when it comes to state of the city issues - poverty, crime, growth, etc.

This is NOT NORMAL and it’s noticeable for anyone who has lived anywhere else and see how those local publications cover that city. The “Negadelphia” attitude isn’t born - it’s engrained into you by publications like the Inky.

They also disproportionately cover negative trends. Article after article covered the COVID crime spike; but now that violent crime is plummeting in town, nary a peep. And, if it was covered, it would come with the huge BUT…

The Inky feeds the beast and knows where its bread is buttered - engagement spikes with negative news about the city. The haters don’t want to hear good news.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by cardeza

there is no comments section in the inquirer

When it’s posted on FB or other social media sites, people respond in the comments of those sites.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You’re missing the point.

Every city has problems, but I’ve never seen a city get covered in this manner. The Inky ALWAYS adds the “but” to every piece of good news the city gets when it comes to state of the city issues - poverty, crime, growth, etc.

This is NOT NORMAL and it’s noticeable for anyone who has lived anywhere else and see how those local publications cover that city. The “Negadelphia” attitude isn’t born - it’s engrained into you by publications like the Inky.

They also disproportionately cover negative trends. Article after article covered the COVID crime spike; but now that violent crime is plummeting in town, nary a peep. And, if it was covered, it would come with the huge BUT…

The Inky feeds the beast and knows where its bread is buttered - engagement spikes with negative news about the city. The haters don’t want to hear good news.

You're talking to a wall, London. If we were saying that the Ink was too negative, Cardeza would be disagreeing with us. That's his/her thing.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Pittsburgh and its park system was designed with flooding in mind. All of the trees and plantings are natural to the area and can withstand flooding. Flooding is nothing new to Pittsburgh. I never heard of Pittsburgh's sinking problem......

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I lived on Pittsburgh's Northside (and I sure had fun) and this flooding is not uncommon. For the most part it lies along the river. You'll notice the trains running across the river. Little of the infrastructure stops that I noticed. That one section of highway closed is called the "Bathtub" for good reason.
I saw the river so high when it was frozen gigantic chunks of ice, boats and docks were jamming on the underside of the bridges. It was stupendous.
I found Pittsburgh was one of the most photogenic, positive or not, cities in US.

Liberty Avenue 1936 (I believe all of these buildings are still in tact);
Liberty Avenue Flood 1936 by jackftl, on Flickr

Interesting that if you go down the backside of Mt Washington and the high dollar rooms with views, across the river from Pittsburgh's very dense Downtown is like a scene from Butcher Holler.
Where worlds collide.

Yes, nothing new. But what's lining up is for it to be more frequently and more impactful.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

People keep saying this like there aren't already public pools all over the city?

At the same time, I'd rather this be more park and less pool

Here's the thing. It's the UCity district's money and they can do what they want with it. The entire Schuykill waterfront is a park at this point. The top of Cira parking garage is a park LITERALLY RIGHT THERE. The porch is a park in front of 30th Street Station.

The pool idea is bomb.

And yes, Philly deserves nice things too. It's not like massive numbers of our neighborhood parks aren't being improve through the soda tax program. Parks all over the city are being renovated and improved.

I'm all for it.

[Radio5]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Here's the thing. It's the UCity district's money and they can do what they want with it. The entire Schuykill waterfront is a park at this point. The top of Cira parking garage is a park LITERALLY RIGHT THERE. The porch is a park in front of 30th Street Station.

The pool idea is bomb.

And yes, Philly deserves nice things too. It's not like massive numbers of our neighborhood parks aren't being improve through the soda tax program. Parks all over the city are being renovated and improved.

I'm all for it.

My only worry about this proposal is that it seems to block a path for the envisioned west promenade from Walnut to Girard.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You’re missing the point.

Every city has problems, but I’ve never seen a city get covered in this manner. The Inky ALWAYS adds the “but” to every piece of good news the city gets when it comes to state of the city issues - poverty, crime, growth, etc.

This is NOT NORMAL and it’s noticeable for anyone who has lived anywhere else and see how those local publications cover that city. The “Negadelphia” attitude isn’t born - it’s engrained into you by publications like the Inky.

They also disproportionately cover negative trends. Article after article covered the COVID crime spike; but now that violent crime is plummeting in town, nary a peep. And, if it was covered, it would come with the huge BUT…

The Inky feeds the beast and knows where its bread is buttered - engagement spikes with negative news about the city. The haters don’t want to hear good news.

Im missing nothing. Most people in Philly dont even read the Inquirer- online or otherwise. The idea that they are shifting opinions at large about Philly is laughable. I guarantee you a huge % of Philadelphians have a dim view of this city based on their personal circumstances and local environment- they don't read or give a crap about the phrasing in Inquire articles- they have real problems to worry about.

BTW, the crime drop to date has been referenced multiple times including in articles about Parker's 100 day crime plan- and in case you missed it we had a mayoral race last year where CRIME was the top topic of discussion and the person who became mayor talked about crime a lot. So when it gets covered one shouldn't be surprised.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Redddog

You're talking to a wall, London. If we were saying that the Ink was too negative, Cardeza would be disagreeing with us. That's his/her thing.

Actually not, I'm just realistic and understand there is a lot more diversity of opinion about the condition of the city than what you get in this echo chamber. And in case you missed it several other people supported what I said in terms of calling out the pearl clutching and whining about the article. Get a grip.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Radio5

My only worry about this proposal is that it seems to block a path for the envisioned west promenade from Walnut to Girard.

Yeah exactly. The promenade is more important than a pool which will be used for 3 months a year. The MLK path stops at Spring Garden currently. A boardwalk and promenade connecting MLK from Spring Garden to South street bridge is where this 60 million should go. Just copy Chicago and stop trying to create a new idea. A path is more useful in this climate than a pool. It's nearly May and it was 39 degrees last night haha.

[reparcsyks]

The path in Chicago is great - wondering why we can't have a path + the park. Seems like a no-brainer that they would connect -- with the park being a major stop on the path. Maybe farther down there could be a small stage for concerts/busking. Also, what makes Chicago's path successful is that there are shops/cafes and restaurants.

[New2Fishtown]

A path on that side would probably cost tens of millions per block segment given that, as this UCD proposal shows, you're up against 76 and having to spend huge amounts of money to wall it off or otherwise make it disappear. If you wanted the path to be below street level, akin to where the pool area is shown, then again you are requiring enormous feats of engineering to essentially hang a platform and path off of the existing structures. A far cry from taking some underutilized rail ROW and beautifying it, which is what they did on the east side (yes, they added bulkheads and did a lot of infill to make it work, but it's still orders of magnitude cheaper than attempting to mimic it on the west side).

There's nothing inherent to their proposal that precludes eventual connectivity to other sections (it is two levels, so maybe the top level continues to the north but the pool level doesn't, or vice versa). Either way, I think the idea is maximum impact at a maximally accessible and visible location. If you walk the Chicago riverwalk, there are some sections that are very complicated with boat launches or waterside restaurants or other more expensive infrastructure, and then some stretches that are just a path. And a boat launch in Chicago is a good example of something that only operates in nice weather (which in CHI is scarcer than it is here). Arguing against the pool is sort of like saying Dilworth shouldn't have an ice rink because it isn't constantly winter here. If you have a budget for programming, then the pool can be decked over and used as any number of other things in the off season.

TL;DR: I honestly doubt this will come to fruition, but applaud the very unPhiladelphian ambition of it. We deserve nice things, even impractical ones.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

Yeah exactly. The promenade is more important than a pool which will be used for 3 months a year. The MLK path stops at Spring Garden currently. A boardwalk and promenade connecting MLK from Spring Garden to South street bridge is where this 60 million should go. Just copy Chicago and stop trying to create a new idea. A path is more useful in this climate than a pool. It's nearly May and it was 39 degrees last night haha.

You can't argue with this. Well, Cardeza could.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Actually not, I'm just realistic and understand there is a lot more diversity of opinion about the condition of the city than what you get in this echo chamber. And in case you missed it several other people supported what I said in terms of calling out the pearl clutching and whining about the article. Get a grip.

Who's doing the pearl Clutching? lol.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

Yeah exactly. The promenade is more important than a pool which will be used for 3 months a year. The MLK path stops at Spring Garden currently. A boardwalk and promenade connecting MLK from Spring Garden to South street bridge is where this 60 million should go. Just copy Chicago and stop trying to create a new idea. A path is more useful in this climate than a pool. It's nearly May and it was 39 degrees last night haha.

The only challenge I see to copy Chicago exactly is the location of the walk itself. In Chicago, that river is located through their business district (not the side, like Phillys ). Its peak use is before and after work which is why pubs, bars, and restaurants work there.

In Philly, especially that side of 29th St, it’s mostly deadman’s land or university-related walking traffic. A pool or recreation space could def help draw people to the waterfront on that side. I think it’d be a great way to revamp energy into a dead stretch of street there. But I do get why the idea should be challenged and debated too.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

The only challenge I see to copy Chicago exactly is the location of the walk itself. In Chicago, that river is located through their business district (not the side, like Phillys ). Its peak use is before and after work which is why pubs, bars, and restaurants work there.

In Philly, especially that side of 29th St, it’s mostly deadman’s land or university-related walking traffic. A pool or recreation space could def help draw people to the waterfront on that side. I think it’d be a great way to revamp energy into a dead stretch of street there. But I do get why the idea should be challenged and debated too.

I mean just look at the success of Schuylkill banks and the trail. You don't need businesses for it to be successful. The path right now is arguably too popular and insanely crowded from the Art Museum to South Street bridge from April-October. There's enough overflow from that success alone to demand a parallel path with stairs up to JFK, Market, Walnut, Chestnut and South bridges. Adding a few cafes and a bar/restaurant would be a no brainer but I don't think it's essential. Cover up 76 with a soundproof wall, add some docks for booze cruises and kayaks while you're at it. It's a minute walk from 30th street station, 5 mins from Penn/Drexel and 10 minutes from UCity's financial core.

This plan was more realistic and better IMO:

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Actually not, I'm just realistic and understand there is a lot more diversity of opinion about the condition of the city than what you get in this echo chamber. And in case you missed it several other people supported what I said in terms of calling out the pearl clutching and whining about the article. Get a grip.

What echo chamber? 90% of what gets published about this city is negative. That's the only echo chamber I know of.

[Skintreesnail]

It seems like we could have both the promenade and pool. The promenade makes more sense at deck level because of the highway i think. And it would tie into the whole "bluffs" idea of the station district overbuild. Chicago has a very beautiful promenade but we have a different built environment. The Schuylkill river trail has been a huge success and is always packed. I wish csx would give up those tracks and we could expand the trail and tie it in better to the surrounding neighborhoods and encourage development. There's a potential for better interaction with the east side of the river because you don't have the highway and tacks separating the surrounding residential area. At least until the overbuild happens, which is a long way off. Really looking forward to the parkway redesign which should create a better pedestrian experience and tie into the trail as well as the expansion to Bartram's garden.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

I mean just look at the success of Schuylkill banks and the trail. You don't need businesses for it to be successful. The path right now is arguably too popular and insanely crowded from the Art Museum to South Street bridge from April-October. There's enough overflow from that success alone to demand a parallel path with stairs up to JFK, Market, Walnut, Chestnut and South bridges. Adding a few cafes and a bar/restaurant would be a no brainer but I don't think it's essential. Cover up 76 with a soundproof wall, add some docks for booze cruises and kayaks while you're at it. It's a minute walk from 30th street station, 5 mins from Penn/Drexel and 10 minutes from UCity's financial core.

This plan was more realistic and better IMO:

All fair points. And gosh, I wish this exact plan got built.