Corruption leads to East St.Paul Police Force being disbanded

[Only The Lonely..]

ESP municipality to meet Justice Ministry: Mayor goes in "guns-a-blazing"

By Paul Turenne, SUN MEDIA


Members of the East St. Paul municipal government will meet with provincial Justice Minister Dave Chomiak at 3 p.m. this afternoon to discuss Chomiak's decision yesterday to disband the East St. Paul police in favour of the RCMP.

East St. Paul Mayor Lawrence Morris said he will go into the meeting "guns-a-blazing" in an attempt to convince Chomiak to reverse his decision.

Chomiak made the call in response to the report of the Taman Inquiry, which was highly critical of the East St. Paul force and its handling of the 2005 crash that killed Crystal Taman on the outskirts of the community.

[Only The Lonely..]

East St. Paul police, residents surprised by move to disband force

Last Updated: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 | 3:59 PM CT CBC News

The mood was sombre at the offices of the East St. Paul police department, a day after the provincial government announced the force would be disbanded.

Justice Minister Dave Chomiak announced Monday that the RCMP would take over policing in the municipality after the release of the report from the inquiry into the investigation of the death of Crystal Taman.

The 40-year-old mother of three was killed in February 2005 when her car was struck from behind by Derek Harvey-Zenk, an off-duty Winnipeg police officer who had spent the night partying with other officers.

The inquiry was called by the province to look into the way the case was handled by the justice system after Harvey-Zenk received a sentence of two years of house arrest.

The report into the inquiry called for another review of operations in the East St. Paul force.

But Chomiak went further, opting for a change in command, rather than another review, in part, he said, because the eight-member force has already been the subject of three reviews over the past few years related to incidents that called into question the way the department was run.

Change not expected: chief
Despite all the damning testimony about the force at the inquiry, East St. Paul police Chief Norm Carter said he didn't see this coming.

"It's difficult," he said. "The RCMP are a fine, fine, fine outfit — but it certainly is difficult," he said. "They are working very well with us and … we want to make sure that there is a smooth, smooth transition, you know, for the benefit of the residents."

In the short term, four Mounties will help patrol the municipality along with the current police force, said spokeswoman Sgt. Line Karpish. If East St. Paul residents need to get in touch with police, the contact information has not changed, she said.

Peter Hourihan, chief superintendent with the RCMP in Manitoba, says the force's eight officers are welcome to apply to become Mounties.

"Our goal in this — and everybody's — is to provide as gentle a changeover as we possibly can, knowing that it's stressful on everybody," he said.

Shocked, angry: mayor
But municipal officials in East St. Paul say they don't plan to fold the tiny local police force into the RCMP without a fight.

Lawrence Morris, mayor of the Winnipeg bedroom community of 9,000, said everyone is shocked and angry.

[flatlander]

If I lived in East St Paul I'd be thanking God right about now. I know the rest of us are.

[thegreattait]

If anyone is reading another side of this story there's some interesting articles from the blogger the Black Rod .

http://blackrod.blogspot.com/2008/08...-to-taman.html

Just though some of you might like to read about this from a different viewpoint.

[vid]

But corruption only exists among Aboriginal communities!!!!



There, that's my faux racism joke-in-bad-taste of the day.

[thegreattait]

Your bad joke reminded me how the federal opposition parties wouldn't allow the Indian Act to be subject to the Human Rights Code.

I think one of the most basic rights that all Canadians ( Yes that includes Natives) should have is the basic right of security and protection, even if that includes protection from one of the various forms of Government. As in a potentially corrupt municipal police force, or a piece of federal legislation that trumps the basic rights of what should be guaranteed to all Canadians.

I must say though I surprised by the speed at which this decision to remove the ESP police took place. There was no investigation into what policies or procedures could be put in place to prevent the possible obstruction of justice. What's to stop potential police force corruption situations from happening in other police departments. That's the bigger lesson that needs to be learned from this. Simply punishing the entire police force does not solve the route of the problem, clearly identified procedures and policies need to be in place so that there is a way to evaluate if there was indeed corruption.

Reading the time line of events on the Black Rod Blog, does leave the situation open, I don't think its as clear cut as the media made it out to be. Nor does the time line completely eliminate the possibility of corruption, but it puts some serious doubt into how not only the investigation was handled but how the investigation and prosecution of the alleged corrupt investigation took place.

[Biff]

If the residence of East St Paul are complaining about the quick decision regarding the replacement of their police force, maybe we should give them the option of keeping the force and instead paying back the $2.6 million the Inquiry cost us, regular Manitobans.

[drew]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

If anyone is reading another side of this story there's some interesting articles from the blogger the Black Rod .

http://blackrod.blogspot.com/2008/08...-to-taman.html

Just though some of you might like to read about this from a different viewpoint.

It's a interesting read. However you would have to be a cop, married to a cop, parents of a cop, becoming a cop, or just a blogger bent on offering the "other side" to this story to honestly even contemplate that police collusion, the thin blue line, or whatever you want to call it, had nothing to do with the botching of this case.

[thegreattait]

Originally Posted by Biff

If the residence of East St Paul are complaining about the quick decision regarding the replacement of their police force, maybe we should give them the option of keeping the force and instead paying back the $2.6 million the Inquiry cost us, regular Manitobans.

First of all it wasn't the people of East St.Paul complaining about the quick decision, it was me a South Side Winnipeger commenting on how the decision seemed to come rather quickly, and on how a bigger lesson should be comming out of this. If we don't learn anything from this then that 2.6 million will be a waste, and so will the death of of that poor girl. I'm not saying there wasn't corruption and I'm not saying their is, I don't know all of the facts on either side to make that decision. That's for our justice system to determine. With regards to my refference to the blogger, all I'm saying is that its nice to see another view point of the story. More information is never a bad thing.

As for your comment on "Regular Manitobans", I think its out of line. People from East St.Paul are Manitobans like the rest of us. So that money is paid by all the citizens of this province including those of East st. Paul. I'm sure they like the rest of us wish this situation didn't happen, but we can't change that, all we can do is learn from this situation and if necessary and proven, punish those who committed an offence.

A

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

First of all it wasn't the people of East St.Paul complaining about the quick decision, it was me a South Side Winnipeger commenting on how the decision seemed to come rather quickly, and on how a bigger lesson should be comming out of this. If we don't learn anything from this then that 2.6 million will be a waste, and so will the death of of that poor girl. I'm not saying there wasn't corruption and I'm not saying their is, I don't know all of the facts on either side to make that decision. That's for our justice system to determine. With regards to my refference to the blogger, all I'm saying is that its nice to see another view point of the story. More information is never a bad thing.

As for your comment on "Regular Manitobans", I think its out of line. People from East St.Paul are Manitobans like the rest of us. So that money is paid by all the citizens of this province including those of East st. Paul. I'm sure they like the rest of us wish this situation didn't happen, but we can't change that, all we can do is learn from this situation and if necessary and proven, punish those who committed an offence.

A

You're right, it's for our justice system to determine. That's what the inquiry was all about. That's why the government made the decision they did. It's not like this was a snap decision.

Even if there was no corruption, I still think the RCMP would be better suited to provide policing for small communities. It's such a difficult job, it would be difficult for a small community to offer proper training and oversight. It's hard enough for the City of Winnipeg.

Besides, the Black Rod is an idiot. That's my bias.

[Biff]

^^^ Hey, hey , hey....don't get me wrong and misunderstand me. I understand that the inquiry is necessary and that hopefully the system will be better because of it. I am just unhappy with the fact that the people (municipal leaders) in ESP can complain about getting a superior police service and might have to pay for it when they pay much lower taxes and are possibly one of the richest municipalities in MB. The old addage holds true here that is too bad that a couple of bad apples can spoil it for everyone but in this situation i think the RCMP are far superior to the ESP police force. Their knee jerk reactions of slower response times are totally unfounded.

[rrskylar]

Had beers with a couple of buddies who live and own homes in East St. Paul and both welcome the RCMP as their police force. East St. Paul had years to clean up their police force and never did. People forget that the Taman tragedy was just one of numerous incidents of poor judgment by the East St. Paul police force.

[cslusarc]

My parents, brother and grandmother still live in East St Paul. (I used to live there too.)

I think this makes sense that the RCMP will now service East St Paul. I hope they establish a detachment in the hamlet of Bird's Hill, rather than having the police come in from the Selkirk and Oakbank detatchments.

[DowntownWpg]

This had to be an extremely quick, and non-wavering decision. When it comes to matters of police providing their services, there can be no questions as to who's in charge. It is a matter of security. They certainly can't be sending out a message that they don't know who'll be running the policing show out in ESP. Creates the illusion that nobody is in charge of policing.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone else get some enjoyment from seeing ESP residents not get their way? I grew up in North Kildonan, so I do have a fair amount of ESP knowledge and experience.

I often find that, out there, they foster feelings of entitlement, privilege and superiority. When in reality, ESP would not exist if not for Winnipeg. They're leaching off us, yet they feel they're too good to be influenced by the city or the province.

One day, amalgamation will be forced upon them by a prov government unsympathetic to their self-perceived elite status. They don't quite have the population density for this to transpire yet, but it'll happen. And, I do very much look forward to that day.

[rrskylar]

I don't get enjoyment from seeing ESP residents not get their way, but if they would have handled the situation with there policing years ago they wouldn't have had another police force thrust on them. As a NK resident it does bother me that ESP residents freely use city roads, parks, services etc. without having to pay their share of taxes.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I don't get enjoyment from seeing ESP residents not get their way, but if they would have handled the situation with there policing years ago they wouldn't have had another police force thrust on them. As a NK resident it does bother me that ESP residents freely use city roads, parks, services etc. without having to pay their share of taxes.

If that's the case, then they should be amalgamated with the city right about now. If the residents of ESP is so elitist, then f**k them. They should pay the city's taxes too.

[Spocket]

^That would cost us a lot more than it would cost them.

[thegreattait]

Anyone else having problems with the SSP pages, I keep getting sever over load messages.

Sorry for the wrong thread, I must have hit the back button when I got one of those messages and then repasted the text not realizing it was for a different thread.

[vid]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

I wonder how they "photoshopped" this thing together back then?

Look at the placement of the support structure, mysteriously showing up half on the boulevard and in the lane, with concrete that juts out into the lane, and the mysterious lack of a shadow for the structure on portage ave.

Also in today's designs the stations would need elevators to accomodate the physically challenged instead of just a set of concrete stairs, I'd also hate to think what it would be like standing on top of that concrete platform in -40c with a strong with, it could blow you right off.

I'd vote for an enclosed structure, maybe that's why it got turned down...lol

Wrong thread, but I thought the same thing.