Federal Government & Politics II

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

We have irrefutable evidence that JT is wreaking absolute carnage on the Canadian economy, and causing untold despair upon the nation's youth, most of whom have now lost hope of ever owning a home or starting a family, and, JTs solution to all this is to artificially inflate the economy by importing millions of immigrants from the third world, and to wrecklessly spend billions of dollars on questionable new federal government programs which will put us all into penury within 10-15 years because of crippling debt servicing payments.

I wouldn't say the economy is absolutely terrible. It's still a lot better today than say the early 90s recession when my family first got to Canada. There were major layoffs announced in the newspaper weekly back then. What we have right now is growing inequality and economic stagnation for some with a really comfortable life for the rest. You're a tad upset by recent changes made to the tax code. It might cost you an extra year or two of work. Imagine how young people in major cities feel where saving for a downpayment will take 20-25 years. And during that time you have no certainty on housing. Your landlord can renovict you anytime. Bad as you have it, young people have it worse. And it's been that way for a very long time.

A lot of the problems we face here are somewhat common across the Western world. They come with an aging population and lower economic growth in general. Ironically, Trudeau has made this worse specifically because he made a choice to prioritized the interests of the wrinkled over the young and in doing so basically can kicked for a decade, only making it worse. The next government is going to have their work cut out for them. Are they willing to make the hard choices necessary?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I wouldn't say the economy is absolutely terrible. It's still a lot better today than say the early 90s recession when my family first got to Canada. There were major layoffs announced in the newspaper weekly back then. What we have right now is growing inequality and economic stagnation for some with a really comfortable life for the rest. You're a tad upset by recent changes made to the tax code. It might cost you an extra year or two of work. Imagine how young people in major cities feel where saving for a downpayment will take 20-25 years. And during that time you have no certainty on housing. Your landlord can renovict you anytime. Bad as you have it, young people have it worse. And it's been that way for a very long time.

A lot of the problems we face here are somewhat common across the Western world. They come with an aging population and lower economic growth in general. Ironically, Trudeau has made this worse specifically because he made a choice to prioritized the interests of the wrinkled over the young and in doing so basically can kicked for a decade, only making it worse. The next government is going to have their work cut out for them. Are they willing to make the hard choices necessary?

I think you are exactly right to put things in perspective. The economy is really in pretty good shape. Real incomes are down because inflation has outpaced incomes but we had a worldwide pandemic and avoided any widspread poverty and desperation by firehosing money. Of course the bills are coming due. Trudeau doesn't get a pass for a lot of redistribution over wealth generation decisions and purposely destroying some of our resource sector but the absolute vitriol that is spewed seems very excessive.

I don't think it is clear what the tough choices are that need to be made. We can cancel the huge increase in benefits Canadians get and lower taxes leading to increased growth but a lot more people will struggle and a recession could easily be the result.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

What is the Conservative Party on?

Carney must testify because why?

Statement seems to miss the point that Chretien and Martin Liberals were better than any CONservative government as far as finances are concerned.

Mark being the PM leader would be a nightmare for Pierre - he knows it... MUST TESTIFY - what a joke.

https://www.conservative.ca/mark-car...nce-committee/

The Conservatives have difficulty with how our democratic values should work.

Mark Carney is a private citizen, he is free to have his views and to share them with whoever.

Will they invite Mark Carney as private citizen. Mark Carney as former UN Special Envoy for Climate Action and Finance. Maybe they want him to speak as chair of the board of directors at Blomberg. Perhaps as chair of Brookfield Asset Management to talk about ethical and clean investments. Sounds like he is also involved on some boards at the Wold Economic Forum. Perhaps to provide a historical respective as former chair of the Bank of Canada or Bank of England.

No they want to get clarity on his position in running for a position he has not indicated a desire to run for, at a Liberal leadership convention that has not been called, to replace a leader that has not resigned.

I think it would be good if he did testify and was given a platform to school the Conservatives MPs on social responsibility and gust transition to a green economy.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I wouldn't say the economy is absolutely terrible. It's still a lot better today than say the early 90s recession when my family first got to Canada. There were major layoffs announced in the newspaper weekly back then. What we have right now is growing inequality and economic stagnation for some with a really comfortable life for the rest. You're a tad upset by recent changes made to the tax code. It might cost you an extra year or two of work. Imagine how young people in major cities feel where saving for a downpayment will take 20-25 years. And during that time you have no certainty on housing. Your landlord can renovict you anytime. Bad as you have it, young people have it worse. And it's been that way for a very long time.

A lot of the problems we face here are somewhat common across the Western world. They come with an aging population and lower economic growth in general. Ironically, Trudeau has made this worse specifically because he made a choice to prioritized the interests of the wrinkled over the young and in doing so basically can kicked for a decade, only making it worse. The next government is going to have their work cut out for them. Are they willing to make the hard choices necessary?

You aren’t getting the layoff headlines of the 90s, but I think things are worse now. In the 90s there was still a large manufacturing and R&D sector. Productivity was rising, housing was getting more affordable each year as the decade wore on. Now we only have a real estate inflation sector. Productivity has fallen off a cliff, GDP per capita is falling. Any new jobs being created are being done with massive subsidies.

Pain was also more evenly shared back then. Factory workers had a tough decade, but so did bureaucrats. Now, not so much.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by casper

The Conservatives have difficulty with how our democratic values should work.

Mark Carney is a private citizen, he is free to have his views and to share them with whoever.

Will they invite Mark Carney as private citizen. Mark Carney as former UN Special Envoy for Climate Action and Finance. Maybe they want him to speak as chair of the board of directors at Blomberg. Perhaps as chair of Brookfield Asset Management to talk about ethical and clean investments. Sounds like he is also involved on some boards at the Wold Economic Forum. Perhaps to provide a historical respective as former chair of the Bank of Canada or Bank of England.

No they want to get clarity on his position in running for a position he has not indicated a desire to run for, at a Liberal leadership convention that has not been called, to replace a leader that has not resigned.

I think it would be good if he did testify and was given a platform to school the Conservatives MPs on social responsibility and gust transition to a green economy.

They want him to say how stupid the Trudeau economic policies are or get him on record supporting them in case he ever runs for the leadership. Pretty straightforward political gimmick that also forces Singh to dutifully do his boss’s bidding and vote against the subpoena.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by casper

The Conservatives have difficulty with how our democratic values should work.

Mark Carney is a private citizen, he is free to have his views and to share them with whoever.

Will they invite Mark Carney as private citizen. Mark Carney as former UN Special Envoy for Climate Action and Finance. Maybe they want him to speak as chair of the board of directors at Blomberg. Perhaps as chair of Brookfield Asset Management to talk about ethical and clean investments. Sounds like he is also involved on some boards at the Wold Economic Forum. Perhaps to provide a historical respective as former chair of the Bank of Canada or Bank of England.

No they want to get clarity on his position in running for a position he has not indicated a desire to run for, at a Liberal leadership convention that has not been called, to replace a leader that has not resigned.

I think it would be good if he did testify and was given a platform to school the Conservatives MPs on social responsibility and gust transition to a green economy.

Yet Carneys remarks at the Canada 20/20 Conference last week directly repudiated our present P.M.'s budget and economic outlook. Carney asked where the growth strategy is for the Nation. Carney I think is very much a Blue Liberal . A rare species within the NDP/Liberal coalition government.
The main collapse of Trudeau's support is being led by Blue Liberals as they know how the Country should work as they have in the past created that balance between Economic growth and social responsibility. Talent like Carney are very concerned for our Future as difficult and painful decisions are coming. It time for this Student activists Government to resign and go to a Campus somewhere and protest Gaza or some other Capitalist conspiracy.
Its time for some Adult supervision.

Another Blue Liberal John Manley has recently been quoted as saying that modern Canadian governments get 9-10 years and that's it. Mulroney 9 years, Chretien 10 years, Harper 9 Years and now Justin Trudeau in his 9th year. Katy should have the Talk.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Yet Carneys remarks at the Canada 20/20 Conference last week directly repudiated our present P.M.'s budget and economic outlook. Carney asked where the growth strategy is for the Nation. Carney I think is very much a Blue Liberal . A rare species within the NDP/Liberal coalition government.
The main collapse of Trudeau's support is being led by Blue Liberals as they know how the Country should work as they have in the past created that balance between Economic growth and social responsibility. Talent like Carney are very concerned for our Future as difficult and painful decisions are coming. It time for this Student activists Government to resign and go to a Campus somewhere and protest Gaza or some other Capitalist conspiracy.
Its time for some Adult supervision.

Another Blue Liberal John Manley has recently been quoted as saying that modern Canadian governments get 9-10 years and that's it. Mulroney 9 years, Chretien 10 years, Harper 9 Years and now Justin Trudeau in his 9th year. Katy should have the Talk.

I fully support the idea that JT needs to resign before the next election and someone like Carney steps in. It is the only chance the liberals have in the next election. I just think we are running out of time. I also think in the 2025 budget were a Carney budget the NDP would vote against it. Carney is both fiscally and environmentally responsible, he would be ideal.

I find it odd that the conservatives are stepping into what is an internal Liberal leadership race that has not been started yet. Using a government committee to hold someone who is not in political office and not running in any election to account for his political views just leaves a bad taste.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by casper

I find it odd that the conservatives are stepping into what is an internal Liberal leadership race that has not been started yet. Using a government committee to hold someone who is not in political office and not running in any election to account for his political views just leaves a bad taste.

They don’t need to ask about political views. He is fairly well established as an economic expert, they just have to ask his economic analysis of the Freeland budget. He either had to give his honest views, embarrassing Trudeau and Freeland, or lie and make himself look foolish (and lose credibility if he ever runs for the leadership).

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by casper

I fully support the idea that JT needs to resign before the next election and someone like Carney steps in. It is the only chance the liberals have in the next election. I just think we are running out of time. I also think in the 2025 budget were a Carney budget the NDP would vote against it. Carney is both fiscally and environmentally responsible, he would be ideal.

I find it odd that the conservatives are stepping into what is an internal Liberal leadership race that has not been started yet. Using a government committee to hold someone who is not in political office and not running in any election to account for his political views just leaves a bad taste.

Carney is too smart to take the heat for the Socialist coalition. I can see Freeland taking the hit, losing badly then off to Switzerland or NYC to lick her wounds. If PP gets in its a Mulroney clean up on all aisles situation. Growth strategies are our best option and the virtue signaling progressive agenda will be put away for at least ten years. No more apologies, victim trolling or Activist silliness. Its time to get back to wealth production.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Doady

Brampton is gone, thanks to JT and Liberals. Import third world, become third world. Some Canadians have noticed this for a long time but were ostracized, threatened, and labelled for trying to have a rational discussion.

Canada is just a name now, great job.

• Video Link

I burst out laughing when that moron white guy answered why Indian immigrants are choosing Brampton by saying "because there ain't no goddam Sikh temple in Timmins!"

Well there is a Sikh Gurudwara temple in Timmins: https://www.sikhsangattimmins.ca/

It may even be the largest religious organization in my city.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by casper

Could not make it through the entire video. Sorry.

Brampton is not gone. It is still there and looks to be a growing vibrant community.

If you look at census data from 2011, 2016, and 2021, yes those from Southeast Asia are the dominant group and the source of a lot of that population growth. That is not a problem, just a mathematical fact.

This has happened before in many Canadian cities. We have Chinatown in a number of cities. Little Italy, Little Portugal, and the list goes on and on. Here in BC Richmond has a large number of its population from Asian background. This is how Canada was settled for generations.

I agree with you.

I've been to Brampton many times over decades. Nothing is third world about it and the city has had strong economic and population growth. The video tries to imply that those of Indian background only like Indian things which is definitely not true. The city council is majority white yet racial minorities make up at least 80% of the population. The mayor is Patrick Brown. The people complaining in the video don't seem to know much about anything.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

One real eye-opener for me was when the media reported a couple weeks ago that every single penny from the GST now goes into the black hole of interest on the federal debt -- the entirety of what's collected via the GST doesn't even cover the interest on the debt.

Well that's no different than in 1991 when the GST came into effect.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I wouldn't say the economy is absolutely terrible. It's still a lot better today than say the early 90s recession when my family first got to Canada. There were major layoffs announced in the newspaper weekly back then. What we have right now is growing inequality and economic stagnation for some with a really comfortable life for the rest. You're a tad upset by recent changes made to the tax code. It might cost you an extra year or two of work. Imagine how young people in major cities feel where saving for a downpayment will take 20-25 years. And during that time you have no certainty on housing. Your landlord can renovict you anytime. Bad as you have it, young people have it worse. And it's been that way for a very long time.

A lot of the problems we face here are somewhat common across the Western world. They come with an aging population and lower economic growth in general. Ironically, Trudeau has made this worse specifically because he made a choice to prioritized the interests of the wrinkled over the young and in doing so basically can kicked for a decade, only making it worse. The next government is going to have their work cut out for them. Are they willing to make the hard choices necessary?

well said. I totally agree.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Well that's no different than in 1991 when the GST came into effect.

Not quite.

In Q1 1991, when the GST was introduced, it covered less than 40% of the debt costs: 16.49B versus 40.22B.
Source.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

You aren’t getting the layoff headlines of the 90s, but I think things are worse now. In the 90s there was still a large manufacturing and R&D sector. Productivity was rising, housing was getting more affordable each year as the decade wore on. Now we only have a real estate inflation sector. Productivity has fallen off a cliff, GDP per capita is falling. Any new jobs being created are being done with massive subsidies.

Pain was also more evenly shared back then. Factory workers had a tough decade, but so did bureaucrats. Now, not so much.

Economic complexity has tanked and GDP per capita has stagnated. I agree. But I'm not sure that actually constitutes and a terrible economy in absolute terms. It's an economy storing up trouble for the future to be sure.

Also, not all of this can be blamed on Trudeau. A lot of that deindustrialization and drop in economic complexity happened on Chretien, Martin and Harper's watch.

Trudeau gets the blame for trying to prop up real estate at all costs, leading to stagnant productivity and lower GDP per capita.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't think it is clear what the tough choices are that need to be made. We can cancel the huge increase in benefits Canadians get and lower taxes leading to increased growth but a lot more people will struggle and a recession could easily be the result.

I think it's quite clear, even if nobody wants to say it out loud. The only way to actually improve productivity and improve quality of life is to force capital to be redeployed out of housing in to other investment. Doing this, is of course, not very popular. The only way to balance the budget really, is so start capping programs that disproportionately spend on older people and to aim tax policy at them or their heirs. Or we will see inequality accelerate further in the next generation.

These are difficult choices. So far Poilievre has hand waved all this away with rhetoric about "gatekeepers". That should be good for his first term. But just like Trudeau, eventually that rhetoric will run out of steam when it becomes obvious that it doesn't deliver what people actually want. Maybe we'll pendulum to an NDP government or something when people get fed up with ineffectual incrementalist policy.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They want him to say how stupid the Trudeau economic policies are or get him on record supporting them in case he ever runs for the leadership. Pretty straightforward political gimmick that also forces Singh to dutifully do his boss’s bidding and vote against the subpoena.

Kind of a dirty tactic though. Has a potential future party leader ever been subpoenaed by the Opposition openly stating that they want to force their views publicly. I'm not sure the CPC would like that, if the LPC did that to them.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Has a potential future party leader ever been subpoenaed by the Opposition openly stating that they want to force their views publicly.

The thing about Carney is that he while he has an impressive resume, the issue is he will be 60 next election. Currently there is very little chance of the LPC winning the next election. So assume that the LPC is indeed able to have a leadership convention within the next 12 monthss and Carney wins, the most likely scenario is that he ends up sitting in Opposition until he is 65. While not that old, I do think that we should be looking at future leaders that are not running for PM while in their 60's.

As for the CPC tactics, while no doubt smarmy, the truth is both the LPC and CPC have been becoming less honourable as the decades pass.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Economic complexity has tanked and GDP per capita has stagnated. I agree. But I'm not sure that actually constitutes and a terrible economy in absolute terms. It's an economy storing up trouble for the future to be sure.

Also, not all of this can be blamed on Trudeau. A lot of that deindustrialization and drop in economic complexity happened on Chretien, Martin and Harper's watch.

Trudeau gets the blame for trying to prop up real estate at all costs, leading to stagnant productivity and lower GDP per capita.

I think Trudeau made at least 4 serious mistakes on the economy.

1) Running large deficits when the economy was fine, just to pay for new programs. If it was for infrastructure maybe I could buy it as a reasonable economic strategy.

2) CERB - Might have been the worst designed program in history. It paid people at the lower end of the income spectrum more than their lost wages, which encouraged people to leave the workforce and contributed to the future labour shortage.

3). Keeping pandemic everything way too long. Pandemic everything should have wrapped up when vaccines were available in the summer of 2021. Keeping restrictions and funding in place until late 2022 pushed the economy into further imbalance.

4). The massive increase in immigration and international students broke the economy. It will take decades to recover.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Kind of a dirty tactic though. Has a potential future party leader ever been subpoenaed by the Opposition openly stating that they want to force their views publicly. I'm not sure the CPC would like that, if the LPC did that to them.

Yeah, it is a dirty trick. It is also a dirty trick by the Liberals to keep teasing him as the next leader without any public interest from Carney or any resignation from Trudeau.