Canadian Retail Thread

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by casper

In comparison when I went to buy lawnmower at Canadian Tire the sales rep made it clear he would get in trouble if he talked about the features. He could read the signs for me and help take it out to the car, that was it.

That is sad.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by svlt

They're even doing well enough apparently to expand their luxury goods section (The Room) to include a men's section in Vancouver. It's such a strange departure from what I usually associate with The Bay (tourist trinkets, casual home furnishings).

They still have a toy department as well with a decent selection.

[Harrison]

If HBC continues to close stores, I hope Simons continues their Canadian expansion plans. A Canadian owned and operated department store, they have great clothing and home decor sections. I much prefer shopping there than at any HBC store in Edmonton, plus we have two Simons now (WEM and Londonderry).

[ue]

Originally Posted by esquire

Consolidating locations is not a bad idea. Better to have a small handful of good locations than a bunch of half assed ones.

But looking at it another way, if only the Queen Street and Granville Street stores are still in A-1 shape, that tells you what kind of condition the rest of the chain is in. The chain's bosses would be investing in the rest of the stores if there was a decent return to be had.

Considering the steady stream of department stores that have gone under within the last 30 years or so (Eaton's, Woodward's, Sears), I suppose it shouldn't come as a shock that Hudson's Bay is the next one on the chopping block.

True, but it's a sort of chicken-or-egg situation. I am sure there are limited resources to renovate all Bay stores to a certain calibre as the chain is probably a bit bloated for today's market. But also I am sure many stores would do better if they were boosted up. Like there's no way Montreal could not support a Granville/Queen flagship style store on Rue St-Catherine. I doubt Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary would struggle to support at least one Bay store of this level. Winnipeg, Quebec City, and a few other cities could probably do the same. It's not like there isn't a market for mid-upper to upper end goods.

Part of me wonders if the Bay on Portage would be where its at if more resources were poured in to it which continued to make it a draw for people who may just shop at Polo Park or St Vital. But also, Winnipeg had a very obvious shift away from downtown retail (something shared with Edmonton and Hamilton). Portage Place did not live up to the Rideau Centre/Eaton Centre/Pacific Centre type downtown malls that livened up downtowns when they were otherwise declining. Polo Park is also not terribly far from Downtown Winnipeg, though not as close as Kingsway in Edmonton (which also has WEM draining things).

Originally Posted by Harrison

If HBC continues to close stores, I hope Simons continues their Canadian expansion plans. A Canadian owned and operated department store, they have great clothing and home decor sections. I much prefer shopping there than at any HBC store in Edmonton, plus we have two Simons now (WEM and Londonderry).

I agree. Simons also needs a stronger presence in Toronto and Vancouver. Their single existing locations are in suburban areas not easily accessible to much of those region's populations and there's less general awareness of Simons I've noticed.

I'd love to see Simons with
1x store Victoria
2x stores in Vancouver (Downtown and maybe Metrotown, Coquitlam, or Richmond)
1x store in Calgary (Southcentre perhaps?)
1x store in Edmonton (really just think a Downtown Simons would be nice)
1x store in Winnipeg (would be kind of cool to see if they made a go at the soon-to-be-former Bay, but realistically Polo Park/St Vital, though Kildonan would be interesting)
4x stores in Toronto (Downtown Toronto, Yorkdale or Don Mills or Fairview, Markham or Scarborough Centre, Vaughan Mills or Bramalea)
1x store in Hamilton (Lime Ridge most likely, or Burlington Mall)
1x store in London (Masonville, though something Downtown could be a major revitalizer or something on North Richmond maybe?)
1x store in Kingston (ideally on Princess St, but Cataraqui would work too)
1x store in Kitchener-Waterloo (Uptown Waterloo or Conestoga)
1x store in Ottawa (maybe Bayshore if there's space available?)
1x store in Moncton (Champlain)
1x store in Halifax (again, ideally Downtown, but HSC or Micmac would be fine I guess)

[Denscity]

HBC Vancouver night and day:

Hudson Bay Co, by Robert Lee, on Flickr

The Bay, Vancouver by Steven Ballegeer, on Flickr

[le calmar]

There’s already a Simons in Ottawa Rideau Centre. There is not enough space in Bayshore for them to be present there, unless the Bay there closes down the road.

[Acajack]

One of my life's great mysteries is how The Bay at the mall near my place (Les Promenades Gatineau) manages to stay alive.

The mall sucked for many years but a couple of years ago was significantly pimped up with a big reno and many new tenants. As a result it is now very healthy and nice as far as malls go these days.

One of the new tenants was the region's first Simons (opened 6 months to a year before the one at Ottawa Rideau Centre).

Simons seems to be doing quite well. But the crowds of shoppers at The Bay always seem very sparse in comparison.

I really hope we can keep it as it'd be a really big hole to fill in the mall, but I have very little hope that it will still be there in five years' time.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by le calmar

There’s already a Simons in Ottawa Rideau Centre. There is not enough space in Bayshore for them to be present there, unless the Bay there closes down the road.

In the unlikely event that Simons were to expand in Ottawa, I would have thought St Laurent would be more likely. The space is already there ...

[ue]

^ St Laurent is kind of close to Rideau, though.

Originally Posted by le calmar

There’s already a Simons in Ottawa Rideau Centre. There is not enough space in Bayshore for them to be present there, unless the Bay there closes down the road.

yes, I know. This was in addition to the existing locations in Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

It’s quite annoying seeing the Bay renovate stores throughout the country and not take the opportunity to at least make them somewhat more like the Queen Street and Granville Street stores. I was shocked that the St-Catherine Bay was not all that much better from your average Prairie Bay store.

I think a decent strategy would be for the Bay to consolidate and have a smaller list of locations that are higher quality like the Vancouver/Toronto flagship. But also make the St-Catherine store a flagship level.

Like, if they kept the stores down to:

- Rideau Centre and Bayshore for Ottawa
.

The Bay on Rideau in Ottawa could go either way IMO. Meaning either a closing à la Winnipeg or an upgrade like Toronto/Vancouver.

On the surface it seems like the most awesome location, with the Rideau Centre (quasi upscale) across the street, the Byward Market at its rear entrance, an O-Train station right there and Parliament and Château Laurier a few blocks away.

But that particular stretch of Rideau St. is just so dodgy it isn't even funny. The incident where I stepped in last year to defend some disabled people was right across the street from The Bay's main entrance on Rideau.

There is a McDonald's almost right next to The Bay which I believe might be the most troubled in Canada, to the point where they had to reduce its opening hours pre-COVID because crime was out of control there.

And The Bay store itself is horrible and would need a comple remodelling and reno both on the outside and the inside.

Thankfully Rideau St. is going to be getting a much-needed facelift, so that might help improve the chances of The Bay sticking around.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In the unlikely event that Simons were to expand in Ottawa, I would have thought St Laurent would be more likely. The space is already there ...

Simons Gatineau is 7 km from Simons Rideau, and Rideau Centre is 5 km from St Laurent. That would be a lotta Simons in a relatively small area. (When Simons was looking at Ottawa, it was Rideau OR St Laurent. They made their bed. At one point they were also hesitating between Gatineau OR St Laurent.)

Quebec City might have a comparable concentration but its Simons' home base and they have catering to local tastes down to a fine art. 150-200 years in business(?) will do that to you.

I can see another Simons at Bayshore eventually but department store expansions aren't exactly in l'air du temps.

[Acajack]

To put it this way: my kids go to Simons Gatineau (and sometimes Simons Rideau) all the time. They shopped there yesterday in fact. I don't think they've ever bought anything at The Bay.

My wife almost never goes to The Bay. My Father's Day and birthday gifts this year were all from Simons.

[Djeffery]

Regarding London, I personally can't imagine any department store coming back to downtown, even with all the new residential highrise construction. If there is ever going to be a large format store down there again (We had a Dominion, Eatons, The Bay, Kresge and a couple Woolworths, all gone), I think it will be a grocery store returning.

As for closing one of The Bay stores and putting those resources into making the other more "grand", they are both suburban mall stores. I can't see either of them being anymore more than what they are. The Masonville location mentioned above is a former Eaton's and it's one floor. I can't see what can be done with that. The other store at White Oaks is 2 levels, but it's White Oaks, they aren't going to make a classic store in that place. I will say the Masonville store is in need of a refresh inside though. I swear all they did was change the Eatons sign to The Bay 20 years ago and did nothing inside.

[ue]

^ Yeah, having something like the Bay in Downtown London would be more of a pipe dream than anything. Probably not gonna happen, but it'd be nice. I only said Masonville as I know it's the "better" of the two major malls in London. I also wasn't suggesting all of those locations would go full luxe Queen St Bay, complete with "The Room". Merely if it was even 75-80% of the way there, maybe without as much of the high end stuff, but just a nice and clean retail experience with good product selection, it'd have a chance as a shrunken chain.

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Bay on Rideau in Ottawa could go either way IMO. Meaning either a closing à la Winnipeg or an upgrade like Toronto/Vancouver.

On the surface it seems like the most awesome location, with the Rideau Centre (quasi upscale) across the street, the Byward Market at its rear entrance, an O-Train station right there and Parliament and Château Laurier a few blocks away.

But that particular stretch of Rideau St. is just so dodgy it isn't even funny. The incident where I stepped in last year to defend some disabled people was right across the street from The Bay's main entrance on Rideau.

There is a McDonald's almost right next to The Bay which I believe might be the most troubled in Canada, to the point where they had to reduce its opening hours pre-COVID because crime was out of control there.

And The Bay store itself is horrible and would need a comple remodelling and reno both on the outside and the inside.

Thankfully Rideau St. is going to be getting a much-needed facelift, so that might help improve the chances of The Bay sticking around.

I'm not as familiar with Ottawa compared to other Canadian cities, but I do remember Rideau Street shortly after you cross the canal from Downtown being a bit grungy, which is, as you say, really odd, considering all that surrounds it. The area at large is pretty mid-to-upper class.

But also, if stores can be successful at Rideau Centre despite this, I don't see why the Bay couldn't. Aside from perhaps being more street-oriented?

[Innsertnamehere]

To me The Bay needs to consolidate and invest in its core stores. It’s footprint is too large right now and the stores that they don’t need need so much investment they are likely doing more harm than good being open. They need to close probably about 1/2 their stores and focus on the stores in the most productive malls and downtowns.

I always think of how Burlington has 2 Hudson Bays. Like, why? They need to close the terrible Burlington Centre one and sink a bit of money into the Mapleview one which is in one of the more productive malls in the country.

[zahav]

Simons is not a name here in BC at all, except for people who research it specifically. They are only in one mall (Park Royal), but it doesn't have brand recognition really. The Bay is still quite prominent here at least. I'm in my mid-30s and have 3 friends that had worked there at some point, and lots of people my age and younger still go (to the downtown one). I wouldn't say it's days are numbered yet here at least

[SpongeG]

The downtown Bay in Vancouver has done a good job with their updates. The mens floor is great, glad it go to stay up there. Problem is they crowded the aisles with stupid tables selling black brown crappy sweaters. They ruined the nice wide aisles.

The bay does have somethings going for it, in fragrances they have a few rights to some brands in Canada. They got Bond no 9 New York which was previously exclusive to Holt Renfrew for instance. Some of the suburban stores in Vancouver are ok, better than they were, the best example of what the suburban stotres should be is Richmond Centre, they did a nice job with that one.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

I'm not as familiar with Ottawa compared to other Canadian cities, but I do remember Rideau Street shortly after you cross the canal from Downtown being a bit grungy, which is, as you say, really odd, considering all that surrounds it. The area at large is pretty mid-to-upper class.

If one looks at the history of Rideau St. during the past 30 years or more you'd think the City of Ottawa wanted to deliberately kill it off. From the ill-fated bus shelters and transit mall to any number of re-dos that always seemed to take forever.

At the moment it looks like something post-Soviet in a breakaway republic of sorts. They tore up much of the area for the LRT construction but the Rideau St. portion above ground just seemed to be left in a state of disrepair and neglect even when all the LRT work seemed to be done. Actually, the re-do towards the finished product for Rideau has barely started.

When I say that the City of Ottawa as a municipal government doesn't behave like it's the capital of a G7 country, this is a prime example.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

But also, if stores can be successful at Rideau Centre despite this, I don't see why the Bay couldn't. Aside from perhaps being more street-oriented?

There is a noticeable difference between Rideau Centre and Rideau Street. The mall is private property and is well designed and maintained, and also has private security.

The street is city-owned, home to much of the city's riff raff and left to its own hardscrabble devices in terms of public realm and atmosphere.

Thankfully, it looks like help might finally be on the way for the street.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I always think of how Burlington has 2 Hudson Bays. Like, why? They need to close the terrible Burlington Centre one and sink a bit of money into the Mapleview one which is in one of the more productive malls in the country.

The continued existence of the Yonge/Bloor location blows my mind. I can't remember a time where I've seen more customers than employees wandering the aisles, even during the lead-up to Christmas. Its interior is dated, it looks like a bunker from the outside and it's a couple blocks too far east to be the Bay's Mink Mile presence. They might be able to pull it off if they rebranded it somehow to attract a different set of customers (similar to how the Nordstrom Rack across the street pulls in a different crowd than the Eaton flagship), but for now they're just competing against themselves.