[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[adamuptownsj]

A block of Prince William is being briefly closed to allow for an unusual thing next week- a crane inspection of an unspecified building.

https://tj.news/greatersaintjohn/101496336

It can only be 222 Water, which is incredible news.

[KnoxfordGuy]

What is that project again?

[Joe]

It would be great news for uptown.

https://sjcommercialre.com/for-sale/222-water/

[OliverD]

I've always thought it would be great to redevelop that building as a boutique hotel.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

A block of Prince William is being briefly closed to allow for an unusual thing next week- a crane inspection of an unspecified building.

https://tj.news/greatersaintjohn/101496336

It can only be 222 Water, which is incredible news.

A crane inspection? Is there a crane on sight?

[ColSJ]

The first sign of activity for The Wellington in a long time. Looks like they'll be breaking ground quite soon.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by homebody

A crane inspection? Is there a crane on sight?

There will be next week. Presumably they want to examine the masonry up close. I understand there are some known issues.

Fundy Quay probably spurred this. I've heard the building could handle an extra two floors.

The parking lot between the Customs Building and 222 would make an excellent location to consolidate parking in a garage, as it could easily have entrances at two grades. There's tons of surface lots within two blocks (2 at Princess/Canterbury, east of Saint John High, along Prince William, both cruise terminals...) that are ripe for redevelopment.

See: https://imgur.com/a/yxNm51b

One underground level, two to get up to Prince William, and four more to bring it up to the height of 222 or the condos next door.

[JHikka]

Surely there's already enough parking garages in the Uptown peninsula to serve current and near-future demand. For the sake of city finances i'd imagine a multi-use development would serve this property more than a parking garage would.

If you absolutely, positively have to build (another) parking garage in the Uptown it should at least include some street-front retail on Water street. It's pretty simple in design, as seen here in Kensington Market:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6549...7i16384!8i8192

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Surely there's already enough parking garages in the Uptown peninsula to serve current and near-future demand. For the sake of city finances i'd imagine a multi-use development would serve this property more than a parking garage would.

If you absolutely, positively have to build (another) parking garage in the Uptown it should at least include some street-front retail on Water street. It's pretty simple in design, as seen here in Kensington Market:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6549...7i16384!8i8192

Sure, I'm amenable to street level development on both PW and Water. And/or development above the garage.

I think a garage would be a good fit here because Customs, SJHS staff, and the Harbour Building all have surface lots that are pretty heavily used on prime uptown land. I don't really envision it as a chiefly public parking facility.

[cdnguys]

windows installed on The Atlantic

[IMG][/IMG]

[cdnguys]

My barber who seems to have the scoop for everything says Percy Wilbur purchased the (ugly) Taste of Egypt building. Checked SNB and it was sold for $500k on Jan 19th so maybe this Woolworths building project will be much larger.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

My barber who seems to have the scoop for everything says Percy Wilbur purchased the (ugly) Taste of Egypt building. Checked SNB and it was sold for $500k on Jan 19th so maybe this Woolworths building project will be much larger.

The downside of that is it might make for a much larger footprint for the building if they build there. Hope not.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by homebody

The downside of that is it might make for a much larger footprint for the building if they build there. Hope not.

I think with an expanded footprint it will give them an opportunity to create a set back a few floors up that’ll give the building a better street presence. Kinda like something similar to the recently announced project 12 story building in Moncton. Or even Halifax’s “The George” on Pepperell Street.

[JHikka]

Assuming this rumour is true, 85 King adds another 7K/sqft at ground level, and if it's added to 91 King increases the ground floor space by roughly a third (up to a very rough 21K/sqft). I was curious and found that Sobeys Lansdowne is 43K/sqft and Loblaw's Millidgeville 51k/sqft at ground level. However, the Shoppers on Crown is exactly 21K/sqft, or roughly the same floorspace as a combined 91 & 85 King would be at ground level. Smaller grocers, like say Joey's in St. Andrews, can be as small as 10-12K/sqft.

Not saying this is definitely for a grocery store or even for retail, but I think it logically makes sense if you're indeed purchasing both properties with the intent of combining both into a single project. Food for thought. It's entirely possible 85 King is redeveloped separately from 91 King, if at all. The more I think about it the less appealing a grocery store next to City Market sounds in my head, so who knows.

Another option would be to simply demolish 85 King to replace it with something like a courtyard, pathway connecting City Market to King Street, or a main entrance for residents/loading entrance for retail for 91 King. I'm not sure what the status of this property would be vis-a-vis heritage preservation zoning, though, and doubt that a demolition would be feasible under those guidelines.

[homebody]

Correct me if I am wrong, but as of now there is no start date on this project? Rumoured or otherwise. I did read that when the property was purchased ( the old Woolworths) that the developer typically moves fast.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by homebody

Correct me if I am wrong, but as of now there is no start date on this project? Rumoured or otherwise. I did read that when the property was purchased ( the old Woolworths) that the developer typically moves fast.

Found this snippet from a Huddle article.

The goal to have a design plan ready to bring to the city by the end of February 2021.

Clearly he didn’t meet his target but I’m wondering if he was the buyer of 85 King that somewhere along the lines he realized he had to think bigger and the purchase of the other building set him back a bit. Just a theory. It’s worthy to note not too long ago the project was on CCD.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Found this snippet from a Huddle article.


Clearly he didn’t meet his target but I’m wondering if he was the buyer of 85 King that somewhere along the lines he realized he had to think bigger and the purchase of the other building set him back a bit. Just a theory. It’s worthy to note not too long ago the project was on CCD.

Thanks for the info ColSJ. Hope things get going soon.

[cdnguys]

Percy paid $100K for the Wentworth property. For the King St properties (assuming he did purchase neighbouring property) the cost was $1.4M
To recoup that cost it can’t be a small project. Before this rumour I pictured a project more oriented towards Charlotte St but now maybe it will be a Wentworth looking property along king st

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Percy paid $100K for the Wentworth property. For the King St properties (assuming he did purchase neighbouring property) the cost was $1.4M
To recoup that cost it can’t be a small project. Before this rumour I pictured a project more oriented towards Charlotte St but now maybe it will be a Wentworth looking property along king st

If that's the case I hope it's a little more visually impressive and less modular.

[darkharbour]

To confirm the talk about the Taste of Egypt building, SNB shows it now has the same ownership as 91 King Street.