Kanata LRT EA - Bayshore to Palladium

[Arcologist]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

FYI this is Kanata between Eagleson and Terry Fox:



Why would people living here choose to drive 100m to their LRT station you are proposing to ditch?

Umm, they could walk 100m. Terry Fox station is NOT FAR from here... But as I mentioned in an earlier post, if we were to go with four stations, this is the one I'd keep, serving William's Court and area.

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

Umm, they could walk 100m. Terry Fox station is NOT FAR from here... But as I mentioned in an earlier post, if we were to go with four stations, this is the one I'd keep, serving William's Court and area.

It's a lot more than 100m to Terry Fox

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

It's a lot more than 100m to Terry Fox

According to Google Maps, it is an 850m (or 10 min) walk (or about 650m as the crow flies) from the corner of Maritime Way and Great Lakes Ave to the current Terry Fox station. If kindergarten students are expected to walk up to 800m to school without providing transportation (1.6 km for grades 1-8), an 850m walk to the LRT station should be reasonable.

Assuming sufficient pedestrian infrastructure is provided (sidewalks, paths and overpasses), stations every 2 km will provide a decent, overlapping 1.6 km circles. Surprise, surprise, Eagleson, Terry Fox and the CTC stations are each 2km apart. Of course currently there isn't sufficient pedestrian infrastructure, so walking even from the Terry Fox station to Staples or Canadian Tire to isn't pleasant (gravel shoulders if you are lucky).

If we really want a fourth station, my suggestion would be to move the Terry Fox station closer to Kanata Ave and add a station in behind the Canadian Tire, to support it and all the retail in behind it. That would put the stations about 1.8, 1.3 and 1.2 km apart. A reasonable compromise in my mind.

[eternallyme]

I'd personally ditch the current Terry Fox station entirely. The area is not conducive to transit and is located far from the main roads and trip generators anyway (plus it is an awkward fit for a Park and Ride). I find ridership to be very low there with most transfers taking place at Eagleson, Teron or along Katimavik.

I'd build Eagleson very near the current Park and Ride (with access from both sides of Eagleson) and expand the P&R with a 3000+ stall garage. Local buses would remain on Eagleson where the current stops are.

I'd replace Terry Fox with Castlefrank and shift it about 500m eastward to Williams Court (with access from the east side of the Castlefrank overpass). There would be no Park and Ride there, and local routes would be on streets nearby (no bus loop). Most local routes would connect there.

As for Terry Fox, I wouldn't even build a station there now. I'd protect the area west of Terry Fox near the Carp River if development permits.

Finally, Palladium would be built as planned, with a mid-sized P&R. It should remain near the 417 ROW to serve both Huntmar/Tanger and the Palladium area (whatever it becomes).

I'd build the first two stations immediately, then Palladium later depending on plans for the area.

[SkeggsEggs]

I still think not having a station below/next to the Pedestrian bridge would be a bad idea. On both ends of the bridge there is a lot of open land, the Kanata Town Centre south of the bridge and some of its parking lots could be redeveloped in the future. On the north side of the bridge there is William's court, lots of open undeveloped land and one of the more dense (and gridlike) subdivisions of Kanata, Village Green, (or Green Village?).

Now, I agree Terry Fox would idealy be moved but its hard to find another location without dropping it altogether. I don't agree with splitting it into two stations like in that map with the EA. Having a station near either the Terry Fox bridge and Kanata Ave bridge would have (provided there were a station at the pedestrian bridge) almost non-existent walk-in traffic. While the buses do go out of their way to get into the current station I think it is better for passengers than dropping them off onto highway bridge. It will always be little a weird to drop passengers off anywhere between Kanata ave and Terry Fox road as they will almost always be dropped off behind a building.

I think if they did stations at Eagleson, the Pedestrian Bridge, the current Terry Fox station, Tanger, and maybe CTC it would be a good plan. The Pedestrian Bridge could potentially lead to a more dense and transit oriented part of Kanata. Terry Fox and Eagleson are good spots for transfers to buses. Tanger for all of the new housing and retail there. Potentially CTC for whatever plan the Sens cook up when they move for Lebreton, and potential transfer point for the N/S arterial road the city has planned for that part of Kanata. For the CTC I guess it depends how pricey it is to take it across the highway?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

I still think not having a station below/next to the Pedestrian bridge would be a bad idea. On both ends of the bridge there is a lot of open land, the Kanata Town Centre south of the bridge and some of its parking lots could be redeveloped in the future. On the north side of the bridge there is William's court, lots of open undeveloped land and one of the more dense (and gridlike) subdivisions of Kanata, Village Green, (or Green Village?).

Now, I agree Terry Fox would idealy be moved but its hard to find another location without dropping it altogether. I don't agree with splitting it into two stations like in that map with the EA. Having a station near either the Terry Fox bridge and Kanata Ave bridge would have (provided there were a station at the pedestrian bridge) almost non-existent walk-in traffic. While the buses do go out of their way to get into the current station I think it is better for passengers than dropping them off onto highway bridge. It will always be little a weird to drop passengers off anywhere between Kanata ave and Terry Fox road as they will almost always be dropped off behind a building.

I think if they did stations at Eagleson, the Pedestrian Bridge, the current Terry Fox station, Tanger, and maybe CTC it would be a good plan. The Pedestrian Bridge could potentially lead to a more dense and transit oriented part of Kanata. Terry Fox and Eagleson are good spots for transfers to buses. Tanger for all of the new housing and retail there. Potentially CTC for whatever plan the Sens cook up when they move for Lebreton, and potential transfer point for the N/S arterial road the city has planned for that part of Kanata. For the CTC I guess it depends how pricey it is to take it across the highway?

This seems reasonable, Eagleson, Kanata Town Centre, Centrum, Tanger. The CTC location depends on the future of that site. If redeveloped, I can see it being a higher density mixed development. So either way, something will likely be needed there and also to store a train or two at the end of the line. The location is so pedestrian hostile that a station on both sides of the 417 may be needed. I wouldn't eliminate any station locations. In other words, leave space even if the stations are not built for the foreseeable future. There is the possibility of considerable TOD along this corridor.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I'd personally ditch the current Terry Fox station entirely.

The draft plan for these 7 stations does in fact do that. Terry Fox is moved further west to be exactly at Terry Fox Drive, and a new station is built at Castlefrank/Kanata Av. Effectively replacing Terry Fox with two stations on either side of it.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The draft plan for these 7 stations does in fact do that. Terry Fox is moved further west to be exactly at Terry Fox Drive, and a new station is built at Castlefrank/Kanata Av. Effectively replacing Terry Fox with two stations on either side of it.

Do you have a link for the draft plan? All I could find was the old 2031 TMP, which I am sure is out of date, and photographs of the display at the launch which showed LRT from end to end.

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Do you have a link for the draft plan? All I could find was the old 2031 TMP, which I am sure is out of date, and photographs of the display at the launch which showed LRT from end to end.

There is a picture on page 3 of this thread, the attached link doesn't seem to work though (at least not on mobile).

[1overcosc]

Go back to post 44 in this thread, the map is there.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Go back to post 44 in this thread, the map is there.

Thanks. I don't see any significant differences between this map and the TMP Ultimate Network (at least not with regards to station locations).

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The draft plan for these 7 stations does in fact do that. Terry Fox is moved further west to be exactly at Terry Fox Drive, and a new station is built at Castlefrank/Kanata Av. Effectively replacing Terry Fox with two stations on either side of it.

According to the map you referenced, the Terry Fox station is in its current location. Maybe it's a touch further east, but with the size of circles they are using, its hard to know for sure exactly where the station will be (besides, it will be the EA that recommends the exact location).

There is another station on the west side of Terry Fox that will be closer to Terry Fox than the current Terry Fox station, but it is a new station not the existing one moved.

Looking closer at the map, I don't think the second last station is specifically for the Tanger Mall (though it will serve it as well). It looks closer to the new Minto Arcadia subdivision that's under construction than the Tanger Mall. The third last station also looks like it will be for a new subdivision that won't be finished for another 100 years, but its hard to say.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This seems reasonable, Eagleson, Kanata Town Centre, Centrum, Tanger. The CTC location depends on the future of that site. If redeveloped, I can see it being a higher density mixed development. So either way, something will likely be needed there and also to store a train or two at the end of the line. The location is so pedestrian hostile that a station on both sides of the 417 may be needed. I wouldn't eliminate any station locations. In other words, leave space even if the stations are not built for the foreseeable future. There is the possibility of considerable TOD along this corridor.

Unfortunately, this corridor is located in Kanata. Therefore there is no possibility of TOD here because Kanata residents will fight tooth and nail to stop any TOD proposals before they're out of the concept stage.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Unfortunately, this corridor is located in Kanata. Therefore there is no possibility of TOD here because Kanata residents will fight tooth and nail to stop any TOD proposals before they're out of the concept stage.

Given the photograph in post #119, what is your basis for this statement?

[waterloowarrior]

public meeting planned Spring 2017
http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/u...raBoards-2.pdf

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

public meeting planned Spring 2017
http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/u...raBoards-2.pdf

So when the Sens move to Downtown, were will this train go?

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

So when the Sens move to Downtown, were will this train go?

Good Day....
and hence you have the greatest quandry that Jimmy finds himself in after the NCC Lebreton Flats boondoggle..... where - oh REALLY where - does it go ?
To North Kanata ? To South Kanata ? to Tanger Outlet Mall ? or (and the push has begun) all the way out to Stittsville !
Any and all of these have their proponents, their detractors, and a BIG political price to pay from the ones left out. Which is where I can see either one of two more boondoggles - it ends at Tanger Mall and all three furthur destinations stay with BRT forevermore, or - it goes out to Stittsville as the ultimate destination in the far future (ie Tanger Mall for 'now') and Kanata North and South get BRT forevermore with the political price split and thus lessened.
But then I'm paranoid.
EnJoy!

[PHrenetic]

Good Day....
from my other post, posted here for completeness, and in reference to the above : an 'update' from a slightly different source : 19 March 2017 :

http://stittsvillecentral.ca/noteboo...upgrades-more/

Quote:

LRT OPEN HOUSES
Watch for a open house events in June and November for updates on plans to extend light rail transit west past Moodie Drive towards Kanata and Stittsville. Kanata North Councillor Marianne Wilkinson shared the news in a newsletter update:
“An evaluation of alternative corridors and selection of a preferred corridor and station locations will be discussed… on the technically preferred plan, which will go to Transportation Committee and Council for approval in March 2018. Construction of this section cannot occur until after the LRT reaches Moodie in 2023 and a funding source is obtained.”

unQuote.

For what it is worth..... EnJoy!

[J.OT13]

O-Train west should never go anywhere past Palladium. Kanata North Tech workers likely live in Kanata in the first place, so the trains would see little use. Sttitsville has, and will always have, a density that is way to low to warrant any sort of metro system.

I sincerely hope that once the suburbs east, west and south are served, the City will finally look at the densest corridor in Ottawa, Bank-Rideau-Montreal.

For the Sens moving downtown conundrum, keep in mind that Melnyk has a plan for the Palladium site. It just hasn't been revealed and likely won't be until LeBreton is a done deal.

[lrt's friend]

We are buying up corridors in the suburbs for rail or rapid transit. The problem is that the cost of 100% grade separation is prohibitive that far in the periphery of the city for the number of passengers involved. A further problem is that for high quality transit to be fully integrated into an improved suburban design, BRT is not the ideal either. So what do you do? There is no question that there is no need for 100m trains every 3 minutes in these locations. Yet, isn't that the plan for service to Trim Road?

So do we run buses which is not the ideal to improve suburban design or do we run a shorter streetcar in a semi-segregated right of way, which adds another transfer?

Beyond the Confederation Line, we will not be running 100m trains every 3 minutes on any route, not even on Bank-Rideau-Montreal Road.

The final question, will potential competition against the Confederation Line prevent us from building any more rail lines? This kind of thinking, which will inevitably come up, will prevent us from growing ridership and modal share. Are we developing a mentality that it is fully segregated 'metro' service or bus service? That is a mistake.

A train within 5 km for 70% of the population is not good enough. In my case, I already live within 5 km of the Trillium Line but almost never use it and the bus system is being designed to bypass it in our part of the city (for good reason).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

O-Train west should never go anywhere past Palladium. Kanata North Tech workers likely live in Kanata in the first place, so the trains would see little use. Sttitsville has, and will always have, a density that is way to low to warrant any sort of metro system.

I sincerely hope that once the suburbs east, west and south are served, the City will finally look at the densest corridor in Ottawa, Bank-Rideau-Montreal.

That looking-atting should not be dependent on driving higher-order transit out to low-density, low-diversity suburbs, through the revenue-zero Brownbelt.

We need a council with some vision that can bring higher-order transit to the denser, diverser, transit-friendly, yet transit-screwed inner city sooner.

We don't have that council with vision, though, and given the political dominance of the suburbs, likely never will.