Place d'Orleans: potential redevelopment?

[lrt's friend]

I really think we shouldn't be putting too much out in Orleans. It is simply too far away from the rest of the city. It just re-emphasizes the car culture even if the Confederation Line is extended there. If you are coming from anywhere that isn't right next to the Confederation Line, you will drive, and we only have one or two major road links out there. It will just create a transportation mess.

I think the major error that Gloucester council made was the way they allowed St. Joseph Boulevard to be re-developed in such a hodge podge way. There was no respect to the history of the area and no overall plan to redevelop it in an attractive way. But, that is the result of a very fast boom that took place particularly in the 1980s. I think that Gloucester was correct in mainly developing Orleans as a residential area, and focusing commercial development at Blair Road. There are benefits from this today as it becomes the first major suburban terminus for LRT.

As far as the future of St. Joseph, I am not convinced that LRT will greatly benefit it. It is too far from the LRT line and if anything, LRT will draw redevelopment away from St. Joseph and to locations that are within walking distance of LRT stations. Forget about the 800 m figure. That is a mirage of stupidity when it comes to transit usage. We should be talking about 400 m maximum as a more reasonable measure of walking distance to transit for most people. As long as we treat St. Joseph as a car wasteland, with no significant transit service, we can expect it to remain what it is today, more or less.

[Requin]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I really think we shouldn't be putting too much out in Orleans. It is simply too far away from the rest of the city. It just re-emphasizes the car culture even if the Confederation Line is extended there. If you are coming from anywhere that isn't right next to the Confederation Line, you will drive, and we only have one or two major road links out there. It will just create a transportation mess.

How would this be different than what was done with the RCMP move to Barrhaven and the in-progress move of DND to Carling? Most of those jobs were/are in the downtown core and neither of those places are close to a transit line.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Requin

How would this be different than what was done with the RCMP move to Barrhaven and the in-progress move of DND to Carling? Most of those jobs were/are in the downtown core and neither of those places are close to a transit line.

Those were decisions made by Nepean to have isolated office buildings. Unfortunately, we can't undo that. We shouldn't repeat that mistake in Orleans.

[MoreTrains]

We shouldnt be moving things out of the core. The city is spending a billion on LRT, the Feds are spending a billion on LRT. The focus is on Orleans, to get those people downtown. Its pretty stupid to want to move shit to a suburb in hopes of intensification. If he really wants to move a department out there, they may as well stop building the LRT. Kind of defeats the purpose. Also inter-departmental movement it all kinds of messed up if they arent centralized.

Wasteful, selfish and childish.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

We shouldnt be moving things out of the core. The city is spending a billion on LRT, the Feds are spending a billion on LRT. The focus is on Orleans, to get those people downtown. Its pretty stupid to want to move shit to a suburb in hopes of intensification. If he really wants to move a department out there, they may as well stop building the LRT. Kind of defeats the purpose. Also inter-departmental movement it all kinds of messed up if they arent centralized.

Wasteful, selfish and childish.

Wish this site had a like button ;-)

Well said!!

[Acajack]

Does anyone remember a plan that was floated by the feds to set up floater office space at Place? Employees working at home in the Orleans area could go there when they needed to be in an actual government office. The spaces would be open to any federal department.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Does anyone remember a plan that was floated by the feds to set up floater office space at Place? Employees working at home in the Orleans area could go there when they needed to be in an actual government office. The spaces would be open to any federal department.

Tony Clement floated some workplace 2.0 ideas a few years ago... It'll probably never happen until SSC merges all the networks together. (That's years away. Just centralizing email has become a huge clusterfuck.)

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As far as the future of St. Joseph, I am not convinced that LRT will greatly benefit it. It is too far from the LRT line and if anything, LRT will draw redevelopment away from St. Joseph and to locations that are within walking distance of LRT stations. Forget about the 800 m figure. That is a mirage of stupidity when it comes to transit usage. We should be talking about 400 m maximum as a more reasonable measure of walking distance to transit for most people. As long as we treat St. Joseph as a car wasteland, with no significant transit service, we can expect it to remain what it is today, more or less.

800 metres, assuming that's an actual measurement of walking paths and not an-as-the-crow-flies line drawn on a map, is actually a very reasonable walking distance to rapid transit.. it's only about a 10 minute walk. Real estate studies consistently show that to be the range of TOD desirability. In Toronto it's even been shown to work up to 1.2 km/15 minute walk.

I lived quite far down Laurier East for a while and I walked to Laurier station all the time for transit.. never took the 5. It was about 800m. Ditto for one of my old Kingston apartments--650m from the downtown transit hub, just walked there all the time.

People are willing to walk quite a ways for high level transit. It's not like a local bus route (where 400m is a pretty reasonable rule). In Ottawa, many Transitway stations draw a lot of walk-in customers from ~500m-1km away. Even Kingston's express buses attract people from as far as 600-700m away.

The nature of the surroundings is important too. For St. Joseph, it's more the overall nastiness of pedestrian conditions in the area that will drive people away, rather than the not-very-long distances.

[Dundas]

lrt's friend :I really think we shouldn't be putting too much out in Orleans. It is simply too far away from the rest of the city

And Kanata isnt? How come people think Orleans is way out there?

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Dundas

And Kanata isnt? How come people think Orleans is way out there?

Kanata is even a few kilometers further from downtown than Orleans.

[1overcosc]

I think lrt's friend is against pushing things to both Kanata and Orleans and wants to keep them mainly in the core area.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I think lrt's friend is against pushing things to both Kanata and Orleans and wants to keep them mainly in the core area.

As do I. No sense in treating the suburbs like they are part of the core. There needs to be a better transit plan for the core before pumping money into the outlaying areas. Obviously this isnt the direction the current council is taking, but before Orleans or Kanata or Barrhaven are served, Vanier or Nepan should get better service. We are making the spokes on the wheel too few and too long to actually support the weight of the car.

[HighwayStar]

spot on...

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

We shouldnt be moving things out of the core. The city is spending a billion on LRT, the Feds are spending a billion on LRT. The focus is on Orleans, to get those people downtown. Its pretty stupid to want to move shit to a suburb in hopes of intensification. If he really wants to move a department out there, they may as well stop building the LRT. Kind of defeats the purpose. Also inter-departmental movement it all kinds of messed up if they arent centralized.

Wasteful, selfish and childish.

The point of the LRT is that employment nodes can be anywhere along the spine and not necessarily at the core. In fact, the Federal Government should have access to rapid transit as a primary requirement for placing or procuring office space. They should either stop placing more employees where there is no direct access (old Nortel or JDS campuses) or fund LRT or BRT projects so that these places are served by mass transit.

[Dundas]

Lets face it, a trip on the 95 from Orleans to downtown or any express.is pretty convenient It doesn't take that much time. I think its better than coming from the west suburbs.

What Orleans needs is a Destination store, which Orleans councillors keep talking about but nothing happens. And maybe a company head office or something other than retail.

Goverment can stay downtown.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Dundas

Lets face it, a trip on the 95 from Orleans to downtown or any express.is pretty convenient It doesn't take that much time. I think its better than coming from the west suburbs.

What Orleans needs is a Destination store, which Orleans councillors keep talking about but nothing happens. And maybe a company head office or something other than retail.

Goverment can stay downtown.

If you look at where government employees live, a disproportionate number live in the east end, and especially in Orleans. That is largely due to the fact there is no real job base in Orleans, unlike in Kanata where the technology sector results in many internal movements (and in-movements from the west end).

Bringing jobs to the community would shorten commutes as well, since they would only have to commute to the centre of Orleans. The LRT would make it a breeze from elsewhere in the east end as well.

[Dundas]

I noticed the ugly yellow building on St-Joseph Blvd next to the Auto Garage in front of the Goodlife in place dOrleans has been fenced off all around. I really hope they are planning on demolishing this place it's a hole thats been vacant for a long time.

Anyone know what the plan is here?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Dundas

I noticed the ugly yellow building on St-Joseph Blvd next to the Auto Garage in front of the Goodlife in place dOrleans has been fenced off all around. I really hope they are planning on demolishing this place it's a hole thats been vacant for a long time.

Anyone know what the plan is here?

You mean this building here? https://goo.gl/maps/JxpB2PG5cwN2

It use to be the Youth Services Bureau building, before they moved.

The building is owned by Place d'Orleans - Elections Ontario and Elections Canada have been renting this building during the election period.

[Dundas]

Yeah, that's the one. I couldn't find any info on a new building proposal there on the internet.

[DEWLine]

A lot of Orléans residents have jobs in the Ottawa-Gatineau core neighbourhoods, and might prefer to be able to work closer to home. Or, at worst, have faster commuting options than they currently have. How that gets done...?