Licensing Cyclist?

[BrianE]

Always with the *new* laws and *new* regulations for problems that are as old as time itself. Just enforce the existing laws damnit. There are already dozens of laws on the books that would curb many of the issues around cycling and vehicle safety. There just has to be a push from the Manager level to get front line staff (police and by-law officers) to start enforcing.

The attitude right now is why pull over drivers who fail to come to a complete stop or why stop a cyclist from riding the wrong way down a one way street? It's such small pototoes... well it turns out it makes all the difference in the world.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by BrianE

The attitude right now is why pull over drivers who fail to come to a complete stop or why stop a cyclist from riding the wrong way down a one way street? It's such small pototoes... well it turns out it makes all the difference in the world.

And my guess, is you'll find at least some of those people are carrying drugs, have outstanding warrants, or wanted in some way shape or form. Sometimes, small potatoes have a way of growing.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I think cyclists intending on using public roads should be licensed.

What about pedestrians?

[adam]

Definitely. We should require pedestrians to carry licenses. And require they wear helmets for safety. Many pedestrians die each year due to collisions and licensing would be one way to make them more accountable. Right now pedestrians are walking all over the sidewalks and roads, they are walking the wrong way down one-way streets. There is no way of knowing where they are. If a car is traveling down a street at 70km/h there is no way of stopping in time. The licensing would make it easier to fine them, we really need pedestrian licensing.

[SteelTown]

But pedestrians don't walk on roads, sidewalks whenever possible.

[adam]

Actually many pedestrian accidents are on roads at intersections where cars are turning around a corner.

[Jon Dalton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't automobile licensing and mandatory insurance created because of the alarming rate of accidents when cars first took to the roads? Prior to the automobile, were horse and carraige drivers ever required to have licenses? That's just a question, by the way.

[highwater]

Also, many subdivisions and rural areas don't have sidewalks...

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by adam

Actually many pedestrian accidents are on roads at intersections where cars are turning around a corner.

Yes, in "pedestrian" crosswalks that are an extension of the sidewalk. Also, I believe there are fines for jay walking (i.e. walking on road outside of pedestrian crosswalk).

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

What about pedestrians?

Don't walk on roads, if they are on the road they are open to fines.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by adam

Definitely. We should require pedestrians to carry licenses. And require they wear helmets for safety. Many pedestrians die each year due to collisions and licensing would be one way to make them more accountable. Right now pedestrians are walking all over the sidewalks and roads, they are walking the wrong way down one-way streets. There is no way of knowing where they are. If a car is traveling down a street at 70km/h there is no way of stopping in time. The licensing would make it easier to fine them, we really need pedestrian licensing.

Pedestrians have five times the number of deaths of cyclists per year

25% of pedestrians killed have been 'drinking and walking'
50% of pedestrians killed or severely injured are at fault
30% of pedestrians are killed on rural roads with no sidewalks
60% of pedestrians killed are at areas without lights/signs nearby.

It's for their own safety.

Can I see your pedestrian license, citizen?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Pedestrians have five times the number of deaths of cyclists per year

25% of pedestrians killed have been 'drinking and walking'
50% of pedestrians killed or severely injured are at fault
30% of pedestrians are killed on rural roads with no sidewalks
60% of pedestrians killed are at areas without lights/signs nearby.

It's for their own safety.

Can I see your pedestrian license, citizen?

165% total?

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

165% total?

??

You can be under multiple categories (drinking and at fault, drinking and on a rural road, at fault and on a rural road and drinking)

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by adam

Definitely. We should require pedestrians to carry licenses. And require they wear helmets for safety. Many pedestrians die each year due to collisions and licensing would be one way to make them more accountable. Right now pedestrians are walking all over the sidewalks and roads, they are walking the wrong way down one-way streets. There is no way of knowing where they are. If a car is traveling down a street at 70km/h there is no way of stopping in time. The licensing would make it easier to fine them, we really need pedestrian licensing.

Totally. And once they turn 10 they can be tested for a license. Before then, they will have to be pushed around in a stroller by a licensed adult pedestrian.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Minimum age doesn't have to mirror autos. Make it ten. So long as a cyclist can demonstrate a basic understanding of the rules of the road. Which we would want our kids to know before having them ride off to school anyway.

Here's an idea: if this were to happen make it a requirement to know how to operate a bicycle in traffic as part of the requirements for getting a learner's (G1) driver's license. That way you can't get a G1 without having first been in traffic on a vehicle (rather than just answering a multiple choice questionnaire with no practical knowledge whatsoever). I'd also allow low-powered scooters to be used at 14 (with the same prior bicycle experience being required).

The upshot should be better cyclists = better motorists and better cyclists and better motorists = more cyclists and better cycling conditions.

This idea also happens to be a great way of shutting up motorheads who demand that cyclists be licensed since the logic of making motorists learn how to operate a far less dangerous vehicle first is undeniable.

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't automobile licensing and mandatory insurance created because of the alarming rate of accidents when cars first took to the roads? Prior to the automobile, were horse and carraige drivers ever required to have licenses? That's just a question, by the way.

That's correct. Horse and carriage drivers were not ever required to have licenses; only operators of motor vehicles require them. The principal that seems to guide licensing requirements for vehicle operators in Ontario depends on the vehicle they're operating and can roughly be described as "muscle-powered: no; motorized: yes". That's why there's such a fuss about these E-bikes - they're an exception to the motorized rules.

[adam]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

165% total?

So I guess you haven't considered intersecting groups? ie - a pedestrian can be in the group of drinkers and walkers AND be in the group without lights/signs nearby.

Edit: whoops, someone already mentioned this small detail. sorry!

[adam]

We can let pedestrians walk around without a license as long as they agree to never cross a street and never cross a driveway. Remember that many pedestrian accidents happen at driveways (either commercial or residential).

One solution would be to make it mandatory for home/business owners to build pedestrian bridges around every driveway. And the city could be responsible for the bridges at all intersections and highway accesses (like King St and the 403). That way pedestrians wouldn't ever need a license.

What about parking lots?

[adam]

The way licensing works is it effectively makes an activity ILLEGAL until a license is obtained. So some of you want to make it illegal for anyone under the age of 10 to ride a bike? Seriously? Wasn't learning to ride a bike (and the activity of riding a bike) a defining and memorable time in your childhood? If it wasn't, you missed out big time. I have fond memories of riding down the street of my neighbourhood on my bike well before the age of 10. And some people want to make it illegal?

[Dado]

Why not just bury the road system? Then pedestrians won't need licenses.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

• Video Link

how about safer infrastructure

That video should be required viewing at all PTA meetings, school board meetings and by anyone who does subdivision design and approvals.