High-speed train service to be studied

[go_leafs_go02]

but why would a highspeed train make a stop there, and then have to turn around? It has to be in a straight line.

NO matter what happens, it will be focused at Aldershot. Hamilton is too far south and with the geography of Burlington Bay and Lake Ontario, the rail line will never extend into Hamilton.

And saying that, it's ok. The appeal of highspeed rail should make it worth it to get to Aldershot to catch the train. Why that station has such crappy HSR (hamilton street railway) bus connections is beyond me. But it looks to be rectified soon. (I hope)

[SteelTown]

Turn around where? They could build the tracks straight down to Brantford and then Woodstock and link up with London.

[go_leafs_go02]

I doubt you'll see the construction of any new rail corridors. The current routing works pretty good.

I'm talking about that red line towards Innovation Park. The tracks there are long gone towards Brantford, and I can't understand why you would plan to route the high-speed rail line through there.

Maybe I'm missing/misunderstood something.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I'm talking about that red line towards Innovation Park. The tracks there are long gone towards Brantford, and I can't understand why you would plan to route the high-speed rail line through there.

Maybe I'm missing/misunderstood something.

Because I'm using existing rail tracks and it happens to conveniently pass by the Innovation Park, probably the best place for a stop and probably the only place for a stop as this whole track is below grade, the track is below Main and King St and finally resurface around Frid St. This would probably be the only way high speed trains would enter into Hamilton. That yard was the site GO Trainsit was looking at for storage of GO trains.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

NO matter what happens, it will be focused at Aldershot. Hamilton is too far south and with the geography of Burlington Bay and Lake Ontario, the rail line will never extend into Hamilton.

Even if its focused at Aldershot the tracks will have to pass down to Hamilton, unless it's going to make a u turn from Aldershot and up to K/W.

[SteelTown]

Either it goes towards Aldershot or K/W. If it goes to Aldershot than perhaps make it go towards Hamilton.

[chris k]

I was actually curious about this yard and lets say MIP gets so full and they fill up remaining space around it with bio-tech industry, could that rail yard be used as an expansion for MIP or other future projects? I think if succesful this is likely to happen.

[HAMRetrofit]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I doubt you'll see the construction of any new rail corridors. The current routing works pretty good.

The rail system in Ontario is absolute garbage built on the foundation of 18th century technology. This will be a mega project. The rail system will be entirely overhauled. Building high speed rail corridors on Ontario's antiquated rail lines is preposterous. The system will need to be built on entirely new footings, use the most modern of technology, and straight through routes for the highest speeds possible. I agree the southern route makes much more sense w/ perhaps sending some conventional service through the northern route.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Here I made this map with the rail tracks.

To continue on with the old rail track towards Brantford......

[kitchener-lrt]

Originally Posted by block43

They should put elevated high speed trains over the existing highway corridors...the suckers in traffic could watch you zip by and convert to transit riders

I always wanted that to happen, except with a Maglev .

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

yeah, i just see it following the present via rail corridor, and mainly by following the London, woodstock, brantford, aldershot VIA line.

I see no reason to go through Kitchener.

I don't want to turn this into a Kitchener vs. Hamilton thread either, but most of the studies done since the 80's insisted on skipping Hamilton all together, and have the route go from Toronto, to Pearson, and onto Kitchener. If anything new evolves from this study, it's probably suggest connecting Kitchener and Toronto via Hamilton.

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

Kitchener will run into growing pains eventually. A city can't become overdependent on one sector for too long without running into difficulty. This was Hamilton's downfall, which the city seems to finally be overcoming hence the slow growth. Kitchener seems to be following in these footsteps.

Kitchener isn't overdependent on one sector. Sure we have a fair amount of Research related business, but we also have an automotive sector, and financial sector. I doubt Kitchener-Waterloo will ever suffer as badly as Hamilton, as more and more investment is being made in our region.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I think Kitchener/Waterloo should just be given an all-day GO train connection first.

The government's currently studying extending the GO line from Georgetown to Kitchener, via Guelph.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Inbetween London and hamilton, there is alot more as well. Woodstock and Brantford are all growing cities, particularily Woodstock with the Toyota Plant,

Between London and Kitchener, there is two small cities, Stratford, and St. Mary's.

Besides, most of the trains connecting through Toronto from London go through Aldershot, Oakville.

This won't matter for the HSR line, as it would completely pass cities like Stratford, and Oakville. Just because there is a larger population in between Hamilton and London doesn't mean that HSR would go there, as it would only stop at the major cities.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

The rail system in Ontario is absolute garbage built on the foundation of 18th century technology. This will be a mega project. The rail system will be entirely overhauled. Building high speed rail corridors on Ontario's antiquated rail lines is preposterous. The system will need to be built on entirely new footings, use the most modern of technology, and straight through routes for the highest speeds possible. I agree the southern route makes much more sense w/ perhaps sending some conventional service through the northern route.

I really don't see the possibility of new rail right of ways being acquired from private ownership. I just alwasy thought it would follow the present rail line, but everything on that would be utterly and completely overhauled and rebuilt. I know the rail lines are garbages, have sharp curves, and rough sections. I ride the VIA train several times a year, It isn't that smooth.

I just don't understand why a new line would bother to go through Hamilton otherthan Aldershot, being a stop between Toronto and London. That old rail line goes through dense neighbourhoods, and based on what I've seen, in some spots, buildings have been constructed where the rail line was built.

If possible, I'd like to see high-speed rail make a little bit of a jog to run by Innovation Park and closer to Downtown Hamilton. I just kinda have always assumed that the new link will just run on existing rail lines used by VIA today, and not including the Niagara spur loop to the falls.

[SteelTown]

The report will take a year to develop so we'll just have to wait and see.

I just think things look better now than compared to the 1995, Places to Grow Act, Metrolinx, 2 RT lines, GO transit improvements, another GO station being proposed, Lakeshore line going to get electrified, growing need to have better connection from Niagara to GTA and Hamilton bring the gateway to each regions.

[The Geographer]

Stupid question:if it goes along the 401, does that mean they are bypassing Union Station?

Or does it move to the 401 farther west? I better go hit google maps...

EDIT: Another question... how much more would it cost to run a parallel line to Hamilton along Lakeshore West, which would then re-merge with the Kitchener line in London? That leaves open the possibility of the Hamilton line going to NYC while also serving a city of 700,000.

[raisethehammer]

I'm 30 years old and don't expect to see any type of high speed rail in southern Ontario in my lifetime....am I the only one who feels this way??
governments change and none of them have it as such a high priority that would keep it going through multiple elections and governments...it sounds cute, so that's why we're hearing about it...again.

[kitchener-lrt]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'm 30 years old and don't expect to see any type of high speed rail in southern Ontario in my lifetime....am I the only one who feels this way??

Government's do tend to just talk .
I think that this will be the last study before construction. Ontario and Quebec seem serious about this, and have realized that we can't simply continue down the road with our current infrustructure. There'll probably be a federal government change, that'll see funding for HSR. That's what I think.

[hamiltonguy]

It is an impossibility for the HSR to use the old TH&B line to Brantford.

1)The ground is unstable 2) The Right of Way is NOT straight enough (see the map with the blue line showing it's routing to Brantford)

i wish people would get it out of their head that this will happen.

The station WILL be Aldershot because it's the closest place on the CN line to downtown Hamilton.

[hamiltonguy]

Originally Posted by The Geographer

Stupid question:if it goes along the 401, does that mean they are bypassing Union Station?

Or does it move to the 401 farther west? I better go hit google maps...

EDIT: Another question... how much more would it cost to run a parallel line to Hamilton along Lakeshore West, which would then re-merge with the Kitchener line in London? That leaves open the possibility of the Hamilton line going to NYC while also serving a city of 700,000.

1) it will not follow the 401 exactly, the rail corridor East of Toronto and West of London just happen to roughly parallel it.

2) Either the northern or southern corridor will be built first. If that one is a success then it is likely the other will get HSR

[WaterlooInvestor]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Hopefully you guys won't turn this into a nasty bickering battle between K/W and Hamilton.

I don't want to turn this into a vs. battle either. That said, I do feel KW should be included. If anyone disagrees, please take a few minutes to scroll through our local section and you'll see the city is doing very well. Perhaps the best plan would be to include both cities. I see you guys often like to refer to yourselves as the "Gateway to Niagara". As such, a line could be built from Toronto to Niagara Falls with a Hamilton Station. KW could act as the "Gateway to SWO", and could have a station on a Toronto to Windsor line. Perfect? No, but at least it includes everyone. Then if we had an American partnership, the gap between London and Hamilton could be filled in to also connect Detroit and Buffalo.

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'm 30 years old and don't expect to see any type of high speed rail in southern Ontario in my lifetime....am I the only one who feels this way??
governments change and none of them have it as such a high priority that would keep it going through multiple elections and governments...it sounds cute, so that's why we're hearing about it...again.

Only if we continue to elect a government that would rather make the worst possible tax cut, the 2% GST reduction, which costs $12 billion/year and which does relatively little for the economy. In only 2 years, that GST money could pay for a high speed rail line, a project that could actually boost our economic performance.

[HAMRetrofit]

Well if the line is not built to link the urban centers of Quebec and Ontario's major cities then I don't care if this ever gets built. These are the places that business commuters need to get directly too. If it does not accommodate this need then why bother? The line needs to connect downtown Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, London, and Windsor. These are the major centers that need to be linked. I don't care what infrastructure needs to be constructed to make the project successful. Bore tunnels under the lake, bore tunnels through the escarpment, elevate major sections of it, and consolidate private land. Don't half ass a 20 plus billion dollar project to simply follow rail lines that were laid out almost two hundred years ago. Design the system properly from the beginning and forget about the shitty old systems that simply cannot work. I am sick of this crap attitude of half assing mega projects. Build it right because the system will likely be around for the next two hundred or so years.

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

Well if the line is not built to link the urban centers of Quebec and Ontario's major cities then I don't care if this ever gets built. These are the places that business commuters need to get directly too. If it does not accommodate this need then why bother? The line needs to connect downtown Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, London, and Windsor. These are the major centers that need to be linked. I don't care what infrastructure needs to be constructed to make the project successful. Bore tunnels under the lake, bore tunnels through the escarpment, elevate major sections of it, and consolidate private land. Don't half ass a 20 plus billion dollar project to simply follow rail lines that were laid out almost two hundred years ago. Design the system properly from the beginning and forget about the shitty old systems that simply cannot work. I am sick of this crap attitude of half assing mega projects. Build it right because the system will likely be around for the next two hundred or so years.