PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[justremember]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

It would be nice if Comcast moved all of NBC's sports division to Philadelphia...maybe anchor that in the complex in South Philly. It would be better than Stamford, CT.

Good idea. I feel like not doing or even hinting at doing this is a sign they’re not serious about developing the sports complex

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

It would be nice if Comcast moved all of NBC's sports division to Philadelphia...maybe anchor that in the complex in South Philly. It would be better than Stamford, CT.

That would be a game changer but not happening anytime soon. They just built a new headquarters in Stamford in 2011, it's in NYC metro and close to ESPN for attracting talent. If it ever did move to Philly, it would be Navy Yard since they have an office park complex currently. That being said, having some type of corporate office for NBC Sports / Comcast would be a no brainer. Sportscenter's main 11 PM broadcast now isn't even from Bristol, CT, it's in DC where Scott Van Pelt is from in a brand new studio.

Comcast should certainly do more for Philly. Late night shows have done tons of remote broadcasts in the past like Conan and Kimmel both did a week in Chicago at some point. How has Philly not had the tonight show for a week with the Roots as the backing band and NBC owned by Comcast?

[BroadandMarket]

"Comcast Spectacor says its development plan has been in the works for some time and is not a response to the Sixers’ intention to leave."

Competition drives improvement. I have to say I'm skeptical, I think this is probably mostly a ploy to keep the 76ers. I'm all for it, I just don't see it happening though without someone else putting up money.

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20240227.html

[summersm343]

Why are we skeptical? If Comcast Spectacor was able to pull this off in Atlanta, why not here?

Article also says Phase I will be privately funded by Comcast Spectacor and a number of investment partners.

[3rd&Brown]

"In describing Comcast Spectacor’s aspirations to The Inquirer, Hilferty cited sports-and-entertainment developments in other cities, such as Inglewood, Calif., where Hollywood Park is adjacent to SoFi Stadium, home of the NFL Rams and Chargers. In St. Louis the baseball Cardinals opened Ballpark Village, a dining-and-entertainment district at Busch Stadium.

Comcast Spectacor executives also have followed the creation of The Battery, which surrounds Truist Park, home of the baseball Atlanta Braves. That complex features boutiques, restaurants, hotels, residences and corporate offices.

“It’s a vibrant, morning, noon and night community, around a sports district,” Wells Fargo Center President Phil Laws said last fall. “Venues have maximized what they can do in their four walls and they’re looking to expand.”

It's almost as if they had to convince themselves of the value of this?

No shit sherlock. We know how this works. We live in one of the most vibrant walkable mixed use cities in the country.

This is why we don't believe you'll execute. Because it's a no brainer and of all places, it should have been done here before it was done in any of the above places.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Why are we skeptical? If Comcast Spectacor was able to pull this off in Atlanta, why not here?

Article also says Phase I will be privately funded by Comcast Spectacor and a number of investment partners.

I’m skeptical because only Xfinity Live has been built there despite the Spectrum being there since 1967. We’ve seen plans come and go for an office building, an e sports arena and a mall/hotel from the original Xfinity Live concept. I’m also skeptical because this is the same team that just built Live Casino which is one of the ugliest buildings I’ve ever seen. Why wouldn’t they just build Live Casino on the lot they want to build a hotel now? I’m also skeptical because of the timing, I believe this is to try and sway the public and city council against the 76ers stadium.

“Hey why are 76ers leaving and destroying Chinatown, look at all this cool stuff we’re building”

The timing is suspicious. I’m all for it but not if it means 76 place doesn’t happen. Market East needs an arena more than the sports complex needs this. To be clear, both could and should happen.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

The timing is suspicious. I’m all for it but not if it means 76 place doesn’t happen. Market East needs an arena more than the sports complex needs this. To be clear, both could and should happen.

100%

When 76 Place gets approved on Market East these plans get shelved. Again.

[Urbanity]

A hotel-retail-residential concept at the Sports Complex is a no-brainer -- whether the Sixers leave or not. If they go, it leaves 3 major pro sports teams and their arenas along with a casino to build a real living mini city around!
All the other projects in those other cities are built around just one sports arena, South Philly's got 3 and all the game-day excitement that goes with them to build a real PLACE there! This makes so much sense. But who knows if CS is serious.

[Urbanthusiat]

I do not believe this will happen. Would love to be wrong though.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by Urbanity

A hotel-retail-residential concept at the Sports Complex is a no-brainer -- whether the Sixers leave or not. If they go, it leaves 3 major pro sports teams and their arenas along with a casino to build a real living mini city around!
All the other projects in those other cities are built around just one sports arena, South Philly's got 3 and all the game-day excitement that goes with them to build a real PLACE there! This makes so much sense. But who knows if CS is serious.

It really is a no-brainer. Living right by FDR park is an amazing selling point

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Urbanity

A hotel-retail-residential concept at the Sports Complex is a no-brainer -- whether the Sixers leave or not. If they go, it leaves 3 major pro sports teams and their arenas along with a casino to build a real living mini city around!
All the other projects in those other cities are built around just one sports arena, South Philly's got 3 and all the game-day excitement that goes with them to build a real PLACE there! This makes so much sense. But who knows if CS is serious.

Of course it's a no brainer. Everyone agrees.

But Comcast Spectacor has owned this land for years, has even previously presented it, then done nothing. So one has to ask. What's different now?

It's certainly not easier to develop in this interest rate environment.

It's of course a lobbying effort to present an alternative to Market East. Look, this will be a neighborhood too! Only difference, is that Comcast Spectacor has had decades to do this and hasn't done a thing.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I think we're mostly in the latter camp.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Of course it's a no brainer. Everyone agrees.

But Comcast Spectacor has owned this land for years, has even previously presented it, then done nothing. So one has to ask. What's different now?

It's certainly not easier to develop in this interest rate environment.

It's of course a lobbying effort to present an alternative to Market East. Look, this will be a neighborhood too! Only difference, is that Comcast Spectacor has had decades to do this and hasn't done a thing.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I think we're mostly in the latter camp.

Yup. It's a last ditch effort to sway the naysayers away from Market East. Y'all blew it. 6er's are going uptown. Build your residential down there. It wold be great. But it's not gonna stop that from happening.

[700 Level]

I am in complete agreement with the skeptics on this one. These conceptual drawings are an attempt to torpedo the Market East arguments. They will start the modest facelift to Xfinity Live and point to it and say "see, we are serious". Maybe they will even start to fence off some of the plots. And then if they are successful in rallying the opposition to the Sixers arena, everything will stop. I'll save you the wait for the headline and just write it now: "Due to shifting market conditions, we are reevaluating the plans for the stadium district. We look forward to . . ."

[El Duderino]

Phase 1: $12 million dollars
Phase 2: $2.5 billion dollars

someone who is good at real estate development please help me budget this. my sports complex is dying

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

Phase 1: $12 million dollars
Phase 2: $2.5 billion dollars

someone who is good at real estate development please help me budget this. my sports complex is dying

Read the article. Phase I includes a hotel, the performance venue, shops and restaurants and the renovations to Xfinity Live! $12 Million for the renovation of Xfinity Live! which would be the first project in Phase I, but not the entirety of Phase I.

[mcgrath618]

A hotel down there is a no brainer and I think it will be built. Everything else, however...

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 700 Level

"Due to shifting market conditions, we are reevaluating the plans for the stadium district. We look forward to . . ."

This.

"Due to the high interest rate environment and the persistent lag in demand for office space, we have opted to delay the project. We will re-evaluate in the future when conditions improve".

Comcast Spectacor is in the same league as PREIT and Goldberg. No record of execution, no vision. Decades behind their counterparts. We don't believe you because you've shown us who you are. For decades.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

A hotel down there is a no brainer and I think it will be built. Everything else, however...

So why wouldn't they build their new hotel there? They literally just built Live Casino and hotel in somehow the worst location at the sports complex. It's painfully ugly with a parking garage facing Citizens Bank outfield and not walkable.

This is the main reason I don't believe their plans because they would have unified their development around WFC if they had any intentions of building this new 2.5 billion WFC complex.

[Justin7]

Grain of salt and all, but here's a larger image:

[thoughtcriminal]

It's not Negadelphian to be skeptical about this plan. We've been promised development down there for over 50 years, and nothing beyond Xfinity Live has come of it.
I would like to see an overall masterplan for the stadium district. These renderings, while nice, leave a lot of questions unanswered. They show the development mostly as it relates to the Wells Fargo Center, but less how it relates to CBP and the Linc. Clearly it is in response to the Sixers' situation, in spite of their denial. It hints at some development on the north side Pattison, but it looks half-baked. I have to think that they would want to leave the prime lots, ie those closest to Broad, for future stadiums after CBP and the Linc have reached the end of their life cycles, which is (unfortunately) only around 35 years or so for contemporary stadiums.
Also, it's hard to believe that they would build this much on top of their precious parking lots. Yes they are replacing some of that with garages, but with only one subway line that goes to the district, the parking is still critical. I've always said that there is way too much parking there, but this seems to go too far the other way.
also, curiously, this overall rendering does not show the expansion of Xfinity Live. Would be nice to see how the expansion fits in with the rest of the plan.
So what is their long term plan for the stadium district?