National Capital Region Beer News

[rocketphish]

For craft beer makers, a post-pandemic tax challenge brews

By: Dani-Elle Dubé, OBJ
Published: Sep 15, 2021 10:31am EDT

It’s enough to drive a brewer to drink.

Craft brewers around the region spent years cultivating their business models, only to see the keg run dry when the pandemic took hold. The economy may be coming back, but it’ll take years for the industry to recover.

Beau’s Brewing Co. told OBJ it lost half of its $30-million annual revenue when bars and events were shut down. Overflow Brewing Company said its profit has decreased by 85 per cent.

“We were really hitting our stride up until March 2019 when everything kind of happened,” Overflow co-owner Brad Fennell said. “The concerts in our taproom were booked out almost every day over the next year. We started building up our licensees with bars and restaurants across Ottawa. Things were going great.”

While things are opening up again, brewers now face a second challenge - this one government-induced. The province temporarily froze taxes for breweries but ended the program and called for brewers to pay their deferred taxes.

“When COVID hit, it really knocked the industry onto its heels,” said Scott Simmons, president of Ontario Craft Brewers. “It was great the government deferred those taxes, and now that they’re coming due, there’s still a lot of debt to pay back. This will be an issue coming out of the pandemic — the ability to pay the tax burden is going to be a huge barrier for most brewers.”

Simmons said there were 322 craft breweries in Ontario before the pandemic. Industry sales dropped as much as 77 per cent through the early days of the pandemic, with costs still mounting as reluctant drinkers opt to stay home rather than go out. Breweries are working on new business models to boost their revenue as the pandemic’s fourth wave further reduces capacity limits at bars and restaurants.

Overflow set up an e-commerce website to sell its beer just before the pandemic. It didn’t gain much momentum at first, but it did pick up speed during the pandemic and ended up accounting for 95 per cent of sales.

Online revenue is substantial, Fennell said, but profits are low. The brewery is enhancing its customer base by stocking its products in 180 LCBOs and major Ontario grocery stores.

Beau’s, meanwhile, is looking to the skies for its salvation. It struck a deal with Porter Airlines to be its official beer - a new market that will get its brand in front of more consumers.

“We know that this is going to get our beer into lots of people’s hands,” Beau’s co-founder and CEO Steve Beauchesne said. “That volume alone is going to be big, but then on top, what we’re hoping is that a lot of people who’ve never heard of Beau’s before also get to try it. There’s still a lot of people in Toronto, in Halifax and (places) like that that still need to get introduced to our beer. This is a great way for us to do it.”

In 2019, Porter served 250,000 cans of beer from the previous supplier, Toronto’s Ace Hill brewery. While Beauchesne said it might take a while for volumes to hit that level as the airline industry recovers from the effects of COVID-19, he’s hoping the deal will help put his business on the map with beer lovers beyond its traditional customer base of eastern Ontario.

- with files from David Sali

http://www.obj.ca/article/local/craf...hallenge-brews

[Kitchissippi]

Nice to see this on Scott and Carruthers beneath the Hintonburg Connection apartments.

Braumeister Bierhalle Now Open in Ottawa

CBN
SEPTEMBER 7, 2021



OTTAWA, ON – Braumeister Brewing has announced that its new off-shoot taproom and restaurant location is now open in Ottawa’s Hintonburg neighbourhood.

As noted in its original announcement in April, Braumeister Bierhalle is intended to “properly provide the Ottawa region with an authentic German Bierhalle,” and aims to meet that goal with a full line-up of German-inspired Braumeister beers on tap, and “tasty authentic European dishes in the form of pierogies, sausages, sandwiches, salads, meatballs, and much more” from the kitchen managed by Bistro Polo.



Braumeister Bierhalle is located at 175 Carruthers Ave. and is open from 12:00 noon to 9:00 PM daily, with both indoor and outdoor seating available. For more details, see the Braumeister Bierhalle pages on Instagram and Facebook.



Source & Photo: Braumeister Brewing

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Nice to see this on Scott and Carruthers beneath the Hintonburg Connection apartments.

Braumeister Bierhalle Now Open in Ottawa

CBN
SEPTEMBER 7, 2021



OTTAWA, ON – Braumeister Brewing has announced that its new off-shoot taproom and restaurant location is now open in Ottawa’s Hintonburg neighbourhood.

As noted in its original announcement in April, Braumeister Bierhalle is intended to “properly provide the Ottawa region with an authentic German Bierhalle,” and aims to meet that goal with a full line-up of German-inspired Braumeister beers on tap, and “tasty authentic European dishes in the form of pierogies, sausages, sandwiches, salads, meatballs, and much more” from the kitchen managed by Bistro Polo.



Braumeister Bierhalle is located at 175 Carruthers Ave. and is open from 12:00 noon to 9:00 PM daily, with both indoor and outdoor seating available. For more details, see the Braumeister Bierhalle pages on Instagram and Facebook.



Source & Photo: Braumeister Brewing

+1 for Braumeister. The brewery is owned by a good friend of mine and he (and his staff) have been hand delivering beer to my house throughout the pandemic. Some excellent seasonal beers and unique flavours compared to a lot of typical Canadian microbrews. I haven't been by the new location yet but look forward to it!

[rocketphish]

Ontario to start allowing local brewers to sell their beer at farmers' markets

The Canadian Press
Posted: Oct 15, 2021 4:41 PM ET | Last Updated: October 15

Patrons will soon be able to purchase Ontario beer at local farmers' markets.

The government announced Friday that it will start allowing eligible brewers to sell their beer at the more than 180 farmers' markets in the province.

Brewers whose full brewing process takes place in Ontario can apply to the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario to start selling their products at farmers' markets.

Finance Minister Peter Bethlenfalvy says the move will support businesses affected by the COVID-19 pandemic, while offering more choice and convenience for consumers.

Premier Doug Ford's Tory government has loosened a number of alcohol regulations since taking power in 2018, including by allowing cities to permit drinking in parks, expanding hours alcohol can be served and giving restaurants and bars the green light to sell alcohol with takeout and delivery orders.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...kets-1.6213247

[citydwlr]

The beer so nice they named it twice: Beau's, Porter Airlines launch Porter Porter
Oct 12, 2021 4:05pm EDT | OBJ Staff

The eastern Ontario firm that gave the region Tom Green Milk Stout is teaming up with its newest corporate partner on a branding match made in heaven.

Beau’s Brewing Co. and Porter Airlines said Tuesday they’re joining forces to launch a new product called – what else? – Porter Porter. The companies described the new brew as a “malty dark ale” with “notes of espresso, chocolate and vanilla” and a “slightly dry finish.”

The news signals a deepening business relationship between the two firms, coming just weeks after Beau’s signed on to become the exclusive beer provider for the Toronto-based airline.

The new product will be offered to all Porter passengers as part of the carrier’s complimentary in-flight beverage service starting Tuesday. Porter Porter will be part of a rotating selection of Beau's products on Porter flights that also includes the brewer’s signature Lug Tread Ale.

The 473-millilitre tall cans will also be available at select LCBO locations, The Beer Store and grocery outlets in Ontario as well as grocery and convenience stores in Quebec beginning later this month.

In a statement, Beau’s co-founder Steve Beauchese said the style of beer for the newest offering was a “no-brainer” given its connection to the airline, adding the new porter will be “a perfect addition to our core lineup of brands.”

Founded in 2006, Beau’s has become a mainstay of the eastern Ontario craft beer scene thanks to Lug Tread and other styles such as its Wag the Wolf IPA and Kissmeyer Nordic Pale Ale.

But Beauchesne recently told OBJ widespread business shutdowns aimed at curbing the spread of COVID-19 have wreaked havoc with the brewing industry. Half of his company’s $30 million in annual sales before the pandemic came from bars and restaurants, and Beau’s saw those revenues “disappear overnight.”

Since landing the deal with Porter, Beau’s has started hiring again, bringing on about half a dozen new employees as it prepares to ramp up production.

“We’re growing now after 18 months of contracting,” Beauchesne said last month. “It’s much more fun.”

[Source: OBJ]

[rocketphish]

Beau's turns to Steam Whistle for distribution, sales help

By: Steve Ladurantaye, OBJ
Nov 17, 2021 8:31am EST

Beau’s Brewing Co. is turning to one of its rivals for help, as craft brewers across the province struggle to survive through a pandemic that saw bars and restaurants closed for prolonged stretches and consumers wary to visit them even when they reopened.

Steam Whistle Brewing take over all of the Vankleek Hill brewer’s warehousing and delivery throughout Ontario and the two companies will create a “joined sales force” that will be able to see products from both breweries at the same time.

Beau’s told the Ottawa Business Journal earlier this fall that its revenue dropped by 50 per cent through the pandemic - a loss of $15-million - throughout the pandemic. Its looked to forge partnerships as a means of salvaging its sales, including a deal to be the exclusive beer on Porter Airline flights (a privilege once held by Steam Whistle).

Steve Beauchesne, Beau’s CEO and cofounder, said the alliance would make both brewers more resilient and present them with opportunities to expand their businesses.

“We refuse to be slowed by the pandemic-based hospitality industry impacts,” he said in a statement. “This new bold alliance between Steam Whistle and Beau’s gives us resiliency and capacity for growth.”

https://www.obj.ca/article/regional/...ion-sales-help

[rocketphish]

Toronto's Steam Whistle buys Beau's Brewing Co.
Beau's, hurt by pandemic, to continue to operate in Vankleek Hill, Ont.

Stu Mills · CBC News
Posted: Mar 01, 2022 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

Beau's Brewing Co. has been purchased by the Toronto-based Steam Whistle Brewing, though the brewery says it will maintain a presence in eastern Ontario.

In 2006, Steve Beauchesne and his father Tim co-founded the brewery with the well-known vintage green tractor logo and its award-winning "Lug Tread Lagered Ale."

On Monday, 129 shareholders, a mixture of original investors and employees who, five years ago, gained the power to invest in the brewery where they worked, voted to accept an offer for share purchase. Details of the offer are confidential.

Steve Beauchesne said the pandemic "dramatically" impacted the business, erasing about half of the brewery's revenue "overnight."

"Rather than just struggling through and trying to find a way to survive. This will allow us to survive," said Beauchesne.

He said the deal would allow Beau's to continue to brew beer at its main location in Vankleek Hill, Ont., but the new ownership would likely bring some changes.

"We're still trying to figure out exactly what we're going to do," admitted Beauchesne.

Founded in 2006 by Steve and his father Tim, about 60 people currently work for Beau's.

Steve will still play an active role in the eastern Ontario operations after this deal goes through, but this allows his father to retire at age 71.

A news release said the father and son endorsed the takeover by Steam Whistle, a brewery that has also touted its use of organic and natural ingredients in the brewing process.

"I've enjoyed collaboratively competing with them over the past 15-16 years or so," said Beauchesne.

It's not the first time the two craft brewers have come together.

In November, the two companies announced an alliance to sell and distribute their pooled portfolios in Ontario.

The purchase did not surprise Stephen Beaumont, brewing industry expert and co-author of the The World Atlas of Beer.

He said the pandemic had "focused beer drinkers' energies" in support of the brews of the smallest, hyper-local crafter breweries.

The "drink local" ethos has been hard on import and national brands, as well as medium-sized, regional craft brewers like Beau's.

"Probably at one time they would have ranked as among Canada's most innovative breweries," said Beaumont.

But he also said Beau's slowness to get on board the "can craze" and to capitalize on the surging popularity of India Pale Ale beers "caught them on the back foot."

Finally, he said because Beau's brewery was not located close to Canada's largest beer markets in southern Ontario, a company with national aspirations was at a disadvantage.

He said the sale of Beau's to Steam Whistle likely wouldn't turn off dedicated drinkers of its beer, or have them accuse Beau's of "selling out."

"I think increasingly craft beer drinkers are becoming immune to these takeovers," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...au-s-1.6367634

[rocketphish]

Crafty move: Calabogie, Whitewater breweries join forces in effort to expand market share

David Sali, OBJ
September 6, 2023 3:55 PM ET

Two of Eastern Ontario’s best-known craft breweries are joining forces in a bid to tap into new markets and expand their product offerings.

Calabogie Brewing Co. and Whitewater Brewing Co. announced Wednesday they are forming a new entity called Canada Beverage Marketplace.

Exact terms of the agreement, which was finalized this week, were not disclosed.

Whitewater Brewing co-founder and chief executive Chris Thompson said the current shareholders of both breweries, including Thompson and his brewery’s co-owner, James Innes, as well as Calabogie Brewing CEO Jeff Gibson and his business partners, will control ownership of the new company.

Calabogie Brewing, which is located in Calabogie, about 100 kilometres west of Ottawa, and Foresters Falls-based Whitewater Brewing will remain separate entities under the Canada Beverage Marketplace umbrella, said Thompson, who referred to the deal as a “collaboration” between the two companies rather than a merger.

“Both Whitewater and Calabogie have done very well to grow our brands over the last five to 10 years,” he told OBJ on Wednesday. “We both have amazing, loyal followers and customers. We don’t want that to change. Really, from a consumer standpoint, there’s not going to be any change, other than I think in the future we’ll be able to hopefully be more innovative and more creative.”

The deal, which has been in the works for months, will lead to greater economies of scale on the production side as well as cost savings in areas such as shipping and distribution, Thompson explained.

He said some of the breweries’ existing operations will likely be consolidated, but added there are no plans to cut jobs.

“We’re really going to be taking the next eight months to figure all of that out,” he said. “This is really a growth step.”

The new arrangement comes at a challenging time for Ontario craft brewers.

Changing consumer tastes and rising costs of ingredients such as hops have combined to put the squeeze on many microbreweries just as the industry was coming out of the pandemic.

A group of craft brewers recently urged the provincial government to revamp its beer tax system, arguing that the average Ontario beer-maker pays hundreds of thousands of dollars more in taxes each year than its counterparts elsewhere in Canada.

Still, Thompson said Calabogie and Whitewater are in a strong position to thrive under the new corporate structure.

The combined entity will have the equivalent of more than 100 full-time employees and is expected to generate annual revenues in excess of $11 million, with Whitewater accounting for about two-thirds of those totals.

Known for brews such as Whitewater Farmer’s Daughter Blonde Ale and Calabogie Portage Pilsner, the two companies churn out the equivalent of 3.5 million-plus cans of beer each year.

That number has continued to grow during the pandemic thanks to multiple sales channels that include the breweries’ own tap houses, the Beer Store, the Liquor Control Board of Ontario and bars and restaurants across Eastern Ontario.

“We did quite well through the pandemic,” Thompson said. “I wouldn’t say either company grew huge numbers, but we did well to adapt.”

Perhaps Whitewater’s biggest move during the COVID-19 crisis was launching a distillery in September 2020. Its flagship product, Paper Boat Artisanal Gin, will be joined next month by a blended whisky called Broken Paddle.

Thompson said the gin has been a “steady” seller since its debut. He said the company eventually plans to build a dedicated distillery with an eye toward branching out into other spirits as well as products such as canned cocktails.

“That will allow us to really invest in that side of the business,” Thompson said.

In addition, the breweries are “actively looking into” adding non-alcoholic drinks to their roster, he said.

“It’s on the radar, whether it’s non-alcoholic or other types of beverages,” Thompson said. “What we aim to do is really keep on top of consumer trends and provide customers with what they’re looking for.”

https://obj.ca/calabogie-whitewater-...s-join-forces/

[rocketphish]

What's brewing at The Beer Store? Explaining the potential changes to the beer buying experience
The provincial government is pushing hard to end a century-old monopoly, allowing corner stores to sell beer.

Ken Warren, Ottawa Citizen
Published Nov 30, 2023 • Last updated 10 hours ago • 7 minute read

Major changes to the beer-buying experience in Ontario are in the air.

For almost a century, the standard purchasing practice in the $10 billion annual business has been flat and spiritless, with little flavour.

Sellers and locations are limited in a marketplace that is largely controlled by the foreign-owned monopoly that runs The Beer Store. Within that environment, locally produced microbrewery products fight for limited shelf space amid the old standard mass-produced brews.

Ontario’s “Buck a Beer” Premier Doug Ford — remember that campaign slogan from the 2018 election? — has been vowing for years to shake up the industry, aiming to put beer and wine in corner stores.

“It just doesn’t make sense, so we’re moving forward with it,” Ford said last Friday. “We’re the only jurisdiction in the entire world that you can’t go into a retail store and buy a case of beer or a bottle of wine when you’re buying a steak for dinner or whatever you’re buying.”

<more>

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/whats...ing-experience

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

What's brewing at The Beer Store? Explaining the potential changes to the beer buying experience
The provincial government is pushing hard to end a century-old monopoly, allowing corner stores to sell beer.

Ken Warren, Ottawa Citizen
Published Nov 30, 2023 • Last updated 10 hours ago • 7 minute read

Major changes to the beer-buying experience in Ontario are in the air.

For almost a century, the standard purchasing practice in the $10 billion annual business has been flat and spiritless, with little flavour.

Sellers and locations are limited in a marketplace that is largely controlled by the foreign-owned monopoly that runs The Beer Store. Within that environment, locally produced microbrewery products fight for limited shelf space amid the old standard mass-produced brews.

Ontario’s “Buck a Beer” Premier Doug Ford — remember that campaign slogan from the 2018 election? — has been vowing for years to shake up the industry, aiming to put beer and wine in corner stores.

“It just doesn’t make sense, so we’re moving forward with it,” Ford said last Friday. “We’re the only jurisdiction in the entire world that you can’t go into a retail store and buy a case of beer or a bottle of wine when you’re buying a steak for dinner or whatever you’re buying.”

<more>

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/whats...ing-experience

I am giving the Premier the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he is referring to two different ‘it’s in the above highlighted statement. Although it is also possible that the Conservatives are moving whatever ‘it’ is forward BECAUSE ‘it’ doesn’t make sense.

[FrostyMug]

Ford said last Friday. “We’re the only jurisdiction in the entire world that you can’t go into a retail store and buy a case of beer or a bottle of wine when you’re buying a steak for dinner or whatever you’re buying.” Lots of provinces in Canada where you cannot let alone the territories. There are also several US states that don't allow it or severely restrict the sale. As usual Doug knows nothing of what he speaks.

Here's my opinion. Ford will in essence force the closure of the Beer Store as a retailer. The downside being that selection will go into the trash and all that craft and micro beer folks like will vanish. Don't believe for a second that Loblaws is interested in listing and giving space to a sku from your favourite micro brewer that sells one case a week or month. Same for any corner store. So there will be a nice selection of Coors Light and Budweiser. Price on the other hand will increase as smaller deliveries will be required into 1000's of points of sale (corner stores, etc.) Keep in mind that in Ontario the AGCO regulates price and I've seen no discussion on changing the rules that require the price of your beer to be the same in Ottawa, Thunder Bay, Toronto and Windsor. Transportation costs have to rise with all those small inefficient deliveries.
Also the Beer Store's well established and valuable return system will be impacted. Big grocery wants nothing to do with all those gross smelly empties let alone all the bottle sorting that goes with it. Corner stores in rural markets have also shown they just won't take empties back even when they are contractually required to do so. So more in your Blue box or cast into ditches and at the side of the road. We can add that onto our municipal tax bill. There are currently at least 11 locations in Orleans and nearby to buy beer and even more to buy wine. How many do we really need and is this really the biggest problem that our provincial government needs to overcome?

[Coho]

With the ending of the contract with the Beer Store, does that mean there will be the ability for private liquor stores to open? (As in basically every other province in the country.. )

[FrostyMug]

Originally Posted by Coho

With the ending of the contract with the Beer Store, does that mean there will be the ability for private liquor stores to open? (As in basically every other province in the country.. )

As in hard liquor? Or just beer and wine. If you mean hard liquor then maybe a bit more in rural areas but even Quebec has hard liquor only in the SAQ so it's not easily available in every other province. Keep in mind that the LCBO is a huge cash cow for the people of Ontario. I think he's more after beer and wine and it would still be regulated to some extent. The current process for rural areas put into place by the Ford government is totally flawed as well. Imagine making the investment into your business to provide coolers and space for beer/wine and liquor only to be told after 5 years when your contract is up that the place up the road is getting the contract and you're out of luck (and a lot of money). It's not a cash cow, it takes a ton of space, theft is a huge problem as are drunks and minors.

[Coho]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

As in hard liquor? Or just beer and wine. If you mean hard liquor then maybe a bit more in rural areas but even Quebec has hard liquor only in the SAQ so it's not easily available in every other province. Keep in mind that the LCBO is a huge cash cow for the people of Ontario. I think he's more after beer and wine and it would still be regulated to some extent. The current process for rural areas put into place by the Ford government is totally flawed as well. Imagine making the investment into your business to provide coolers and space for beer/wine and liquor only to be told after 5 years when your contract is up that the place up the road is getting the contract and you're out of luck (and a lot of money). It's not a cash cow, it takes a ton of space, theft is a huge problem as are drunks and minors.

I'm from BC so used to the model there. BC has government-run liquor stores (BC Liquor Store) which operate like LCBO but they also permit privately owned liquor stores which can sell the same products (beer, wine, spirits, etc). Oftentimes the prices are cheaper at the BCL vs. private stores but it's still nice to have the option to purchase alcohol later in the evenings when the BCL's have closed. There are also some grocery stores which are permitted to sell wine (based on proximity to existing liquor stores).

Was just pointing out that I don't foresee it being the end of the world for craft brewers by allowing beer to be sold in locations other than LCBO or Beer Store, as other jurisdictions in Canada are currently doing it. I remember when I first travelled to Ontario being shocked that I couldn't buy beer on a Sunday unless I could find a brewery that was open (this was in a town with no Beer Store - or maybe back then even the Beer Stores were closed on Sundays).

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

As in hard liquor? Or just beer and wine. If you mean hard liquor then maybe a bit more in rural areas but even Quebec has hard liquor only in the SAQ so it's not easily available in every other province. Keep in mind that the LCBO is a huge cash cow for the people of Ontario. I think he's more after beer and wine and it would still be regulated to some extent. The current process for rural areas put into place by the Ford government is totally flawed as well. Imagine making the investment into your business to provide coolers and space for beer/wine and liquor only to be told after 5 years when your contract is up that the place up the road is getting the contract and you're out of luck (and a lot of money). It's not a cash cow, it takes a ton of space, theft is a huge problem as are drunks and minors.

Here in Phoenix, there are no restrictions whatsoever on the sale of any type of alcohol. My local Safeway has a large beer, wine and liquor selection, and at my local gas station I could buy a can of beer or 40ml bottle of Vodka if I wanted.

Depending on where I go, prices can be as little as 1/3 of what I would pay in Ottawa.

Drunks, theft and/or minors does not seem to be an issue at all... well probably no worse than Ontario.

Bottom line... a 100% free market for booze does NOT have any adverse effect on the community, and prices do NOT skyrocket because stock has to be delivered to more locations.

It's just silly that so much time, effort and money goes into trying to "control" booze in Ontario. Practical experience here shows that ALL that effort is a wasted bureaucracy.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Here in Phoenix, there are no restrictions whatsoever on the sale of any type of alcohol. My local Safeway has a large beer, wine and liquor selection, and at my local gas station I could buy a can of beer or 40ml bottle of Vodka if I wanted.

Depending on where I go, prices can be as little as 1/3 of what I would pay in Ottawa.

Drunks, theft and/or minors does not seem to be an issue at all... well probably no worse than Ontario.

Bottom line... a 100% free market for booze does NOT have any adverse effect on the community, and prices do NOT skyrocket because stock has to be delivered to more locations.

It's just silly that so much time, effort and money goes into trying to "control" booze in Ontario. Practical experience here shows that ALL that effort is a wasted bureaucracy.

The drinking age being 21 certainly keeps alcohol out of the hands of minors. Prior to that private stores certainly had less control than in Ontario. It was said in Ontario that alcohol was harder to get in high school than Canabis. how important this is of course is debateable.

I'd love to buy beer with my steak everywhere for convenience. The $2.5B profit of the LCBO shouldn't be given away for nothing though. I'd sell off the licenses to highest bidders and given how desirable for supermarkets this might bring in more revenue than the LCBO is worth in its entirety. Ford of course sounds like he will peck away and as with Canabis give away the rights for nothing.

As someone else said above it's not true that everywhere in the world has open access to alcohol. Sweden and several provinces have even more control than the LCBO.

[FrostyMug]

I think in fairness we all know price of booze of any sort is cheaper in Phoenix due to minimal tax on booze as opposed to Ontario. Knowing that the booze tax here pays for some or all my health care makes me perfectly okay with that too.

As for supply chain, it's far cheaper to distribute to 500 points of sale than it is to 5000. You move the same volume but the bundles are all smaller. There's a reason why there isn't a Walmart or a Superstore or a Costco on every corner. They want to move volume.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

I think in fairness we all know price of booze of any sort is cheaper in Phoenix due to minimal tax on booze as opposed to Ontario. Knowing that the booze tax here pays for some or all my health care makes me perfectly okay with that too.

I think you missed my point entirely.... point being in Arizona there are no more "social ills" due to free market alcohol sales than in Ontario or Quebec... so why do we need those expensive and bureaucratic unionized monopolies (LCBO, SAQ, regulations around beer and wine sales) to "control" things?

I'm sure the "booze tax" from LCBO goes into general revenues, and not only health care... but not only that, the "booze tax" is being spent on those glossy LCBO cookbooks, and (my favourite), plastering the LCBO logo all over the boards at Senators games. Like really? Hundred of thousands of $$ to advertise a government monopoly at hockey games? Your tax dollars at work folks.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I'd love to buy beer with my steak everywhere for convenience. The $2.5B profit of the LCBO shouldn't be given away for nothing though. I'd sell off the licenses to highest bidders and given how desirable for supermarkets this might bring in more revenue than the LCBO is worth in its entirety. Ford of course sounds like he will peck away and as with Canabis give away the rights for nothing.

So why not just allow the free market, but slap a 100% Ontario tax on booze? The money still flows in (I do get the argument about funding health care), but without the massive overhead that comes with the complex, expensive and completely unnecessary regulatory framework.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I think you missed my point entirely.... point being in Arizona there are no more "social ills" due to free market alcohol sales than in Ontario or Quebec... so why do we need those expensive and bureaucratic unionized monopolies (LCBO, SAQ, regulations around beer and wine sales) to "control" things?

I'm sure the "booze tax" from LCBO goes into general revenues, and not only health care... but not only that, the "booze tax" is being spent on those glossy LCBO cookbooks, and (my favourite), plastering the LCBO logo all over the boards at Senators games. Like really? Hundred of thousands of $$ to advertise a government monopoly at hockey games? Your tax dollars at work folks.

Point taken on LCBO advertising, but it's not really our tax dollars paying for that. The LCBO contributes to government revenues, it doesn't receive any.

There are some benefits to the model we have - better trained and better paid employees (who frankly are better at keeping alcohol out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it), a much better recycling record etc. I think those things get lost in the talk of opening the market up (which still requires lots of regulation and bureaucracy by the way).

As for microbrews, a reason many of those are surviving is because the LCBO mandates shelf space for them. I absolutely think that deregulation will hurt them at the expense of the big players, as there is really no effective way to do that when beer is sold in lots of different places.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

Point taken on LCBO advertising, but it's not really our tax dollars paying for that. The LCBO contributes to government revenues, it doesn't receive any.

There are some benefits to the model we have - better trained and better paid employees (who frankly are better at keeping alcohol out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it), a much better recycling record etc. I think those things get lost in the talk of opening the market up (which still requires lots of regulation and bureaucracy by the way).

As for microbrews, a reason many of those are surviving is because the LCBO mandates shelf space for them. I absolutely think that deregulation will hurt them at the expense of the big players, as there is really no effective way to do that when beer is sold in lots of different places.

The "big players" (in beer) are large multinational corporations with a monopoly (who btw export their profits out of the country), so trying to defend that model is just a tad difficult.

I honestly don't think LCBO employees are "better trained" to handle the underage problem. One of my last visits to LCBO directly in front of me there was a very young "rough looking" person who was asked for ID. He said, "is a Passport ok?" (like really.. a shady looking young person is carrying around a Passport as his only ID?) Anyway, I saw the passport had a cut-off corner (i.e. it was expired.. and in all likelihood doctored), but the clerk didn't question it at all. I mentioned this to the clerk, and he just gave me a "so what" kind of look.

Anything after LCBO expenses goes to the government... correct. However, money from public to government is a TAX (just by another name). LCBO employees work for the government... so it's just a "hidden" tax.

Anyway, my point remains. I have seen little, if any, evidence that all the bureaucracy (and huge costs and "inconvenience" to the public) around liquor sales in Ontario and Quebec are worth the expense (and most of the world agrees btw, except Sweden and perhaps a few other countries and provinces). It's just another transfer of funds from the public to the government, with very little gain to the public in general.