[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

As I see it, a museum is essentially a warehouse.

This is very harsh IMO. Museums can be cultural centres, places of learning, and a central location for a community to get together for wellness and general wellbeing. Relegating it to a warehouse is unfair, or at the very least short-sighted and not capturing its full potential.

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I would hate to see the entire museum uptown or on the waterfront. What I hope for is a storage and research facility somewhere practical outside the core with a dynamic and fluid exhibition space uptown. Exhibits could be changed regularly and would attract tourists and locals alike. I would also like to see Douglas Ave restored but I’m not sure having 3 locations is practical.

I don't think I can say too much on this but I will say that there are some very good museums out there that are able to balance typical museum exhibits with areas that also highlight things like item preservation and the assembly line-type work that is needed on those sorts of things. There's enough space in the Uptown for such a museum build...

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

At least Douglas Avenue is still with 10-15 walk of the uptown business core along a beautiful landscaped harbour walk, we could do a lot worse than a $100+ million investment in culture that close to the core.

What makes you think $100m is on the table? That was the estimate for the project Higgs killed. If they go with Douglas Ave, I would be surprised if they spend a quarter of that.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is very harsh IMO. Museums can be cultural centres, places of learning, and a central location for a community to get together for wellness and general wellbeing. Relegating it to a warehouse is unfair, or at the very least short-sighted and not capturing its full potential.


I don't think I can say too much on this but I will say that there are some very good museums out there that are able to balance typical museum exhibits with areas that also highlight things like item preservation and the assembly line-type work that is needed on those sorts of things. There's enough space in the Uptown for such a museum build...

I don't think I was clear in my vision. The "warehouse" aspect would house the vast majority of the collection - most museums only display/allow access to a tiny fraction of what they actually have on hand but have an everchanging public display area much like the ROM. As the oldest museum in Canada (I think), it's exciting to ponder not only what we have already in the collection but what we could attract from an "exhibition" perspective - think KIng Tut etc..... If we had unlimited space uptown/waterfront, I would agree with you to have it all in one place but unfortunately we don't. I certainly do also believe the "display" space could be everything you note - the big issue I had with the Market Square space was it never seemed to change and it was dark and uninviting.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I don't think I was clear in my vision. The "warehouse" aspect would house the vast majority of the collection - most museums only display/allow access to a tiny fraction of what they actually have on hand but have an everchanging public display area much like the ROM. As the oldest museum in Canada (I think), it's exciting to ponder not only what we have already in the collection but what we could attract from an "exhibition" perspective - think KIng Tut etc..... If we had unlimited space uptown/waterfront, I would agree with you to have it all in one place but unfortunately we don't. I certainly do also believe the "display" space could be everything you note - the big issue I had with the Market Square space was it never seemed to change and it was dark and uninviting.

The museum has also never had an exhibition space that is up to the conservator standards and loading bay requirements required for any temporary or visiting exhibitions. Market Square didn’t have proper HVAC and temperature controls and the loading docks wouldn’t allow it to bring in any other exhibits, and Douglas Avenue was/is the same. Basically no other museum or gallery would loan anything like that to NBM because they didn’t meet standards. That’s a big part of this investment is getting the ability to bring those touring shows/pieces to be on display in New Brunswick, which would be a massive upgrade to the already incredible collections the museum has. It’s like the difference of having a music venue go from only playing local music to having touring artists all of a sudden.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

What I hope for is a storage and research facility somewhere practical outside the core with a dynamic and fluid exhibition space uptown. Exhibits could be changed regularly and would attract tourists and locals alike. I would also like to see Douglas Ave restored but I’m not sure having 3 locations is practical.

What you are describing is how most major museums operate. Take The Smithsonian for example, they have a massive network of warehouses to support the museums and most staff and research work isn't done so much in the museums you actually see, but off-site. This is probably the issue facing Higgs and others. What do we need to showcase NB's history and what do we need to house staff and properly preserve our artefacts.

As for Douglas Avenue, I think that is a bad idea to be the home of the museum. it needs to be in Uptown and a destination for tourists on foot. Most tour passengers likely wanting to visit are not going to have the physical stamina nor desire to walk all the way to the museum, regardless of how pretty the route is.

So, if I was CEO, I'd be earmarking $50M with a significant matching fundraising drive from private donors and $20M to build a large off-site temperature controlled facility with research and staff facilities. Then sell Douglas Avenue to a developer to convert into condos or some other type of development and use proceeds to further offset the costs.

IMHO

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

As the oldest museum in Canada (I think)

Oldest continuously operating, IIRC. At this point we're stretching the term if NBM has nowhere to go.

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

, it's exciting to ponder not only what we have already in the collection but what we could attract from an "exhibition" perspective - think KIng Tut etc..... If we had unlimited space uptown/waterfront, I would agree with you to have it all in one place but unfortunately we don't. I certainly do also believe the "display" space could be everything you note - the big issue I had with the Market Square space was it never seemed to change and it was dark and uninviting.

Originally Posted by darkharbour

The museum has also never had an exhibition space that is up to the conservator standards and loading bay requirements required for any temporary or visiting exhibitions. Market Square didn’t have proper HVAC and temperature controls and the loading docks wouldn’t allow it to bring in any other exhibits, and Douglas Avenue was/is the same. Basically no other museum or gallery would loan anything like that to NBM because they didn’t meet standards. That’s a big part of this investment is getting the ability to bring those touring shows/pieces to be on display in New Brunswick, which would be a massive upgrade to the already incredible collections the museum has. It’s like the difference of having a music venue go from only playing local music to having touring artists all of a sudden.

Both good points.

Originally Posted by Pugsley

As for Douglas Avenue, I think that is a bad idea to be the home of the museum. it needs to be in Uptown and a destination for tourists on foot. Most tour passengers likely wanting to visit are not going to have the physical stamina nor desire to walk all the way to the museum, regardless of how pretty the route is.

I think it's imperative that NBM remain in the Uptown, not only to remain accessible to general tourism but also to prevent a further sprawl of key community centres and places. Having the museum next to the Free Public Library was pretty great, despite all of the issues inherent with the Market Square location for NBM.

[UptownJeff]

[QUOTE=Pugsley;9774584]What you are describing is how most major museums operate. Take The Smithsonian for example, they have a massive network of warehouses to support the museums and most staff and research work isn't done so much in the museums you actually see, but off-site. This is probably the issue facing Higgs and others. What do we need to showcase NB's history and what do we need to house staff and properly preserve our artefacts.

Exactly. Completely agree.

So, if I was CEO, I'd be earmarking $50M with a significant matching fundraising drive from private donors and $20M to build a large off-site temperature controlled facility with research and staff facilities. Then sell Douglas Avenue to a developer to convert into condos or some other type of development and use proceeds to further offset the costs.

Now there's a thought! I like this idea.

[DyAm00394]

New Vacancies In Two Uptown Buildings Seen As Opportunity

"There is growing concern from some in Saint John after vacancies opened up this week in two uptown buildings.

But some community leaders see it as an opportunity to welcome new businesses to the city’s uptown core.

The New Brunswick Museum closed its doors in Market Square, leaving a three-level space up for grabs.

Pizza Hut also left its long-time location in nearby Brunswick Square for a new spot on the city’s east side.

Nancy Tissington, the executive director of Uptown Saint John Inc., said the vacancies are “certainly a concern.”

“But one thing I’ve learned in this position for the last number of years is that it’s also opportunity. It’s an opportunity for someone new to come in and share that space,” Tissington said Thursday.

“It’s a matter of who can we think about to come in and activate those spaces as we are doing in public space, which is what our goal is.

”Mayor Donna Reardon said she also believes there is real opportunity for the vacant spaces.

Market Square is owned by the city but leased to The Hardman Group to manage, she said.

“We have some opportunities there to negotiate with whoever to get some businesses in there,” said Reardon.

“It’s a big space and it has a library in there. Because of that, the public is in there quite a bit.”

Brunswick Square is privately owned by Ontario-based Slate Asset Management, but Reardon said the city is working with the owners to try and move the facility forward.

The mayor said she hopes ongoing development in the city’s south-central peninsula will lead to new opportunities.

“The peninsula is only 2.5 square kilometres, so as we see a lot of the vacant space being developed, I think it’s inevitable that things will begin to happen,” said Reardon".

https://www.country94.ca/2022/10/28/...as-opportunity

Also here's a leasing brochure for the Museum space: http://marketsquaresj.com/wp-content...2022-08-16.pdf The space is 63,091Sq.ft (spread over 3 levels). Level 1 is 24,420sq.ft, Level 2 is 15,315sq.ft, and Level 3 is 23,356sq.ft. Would be cool to see bigger retail stores open here. Either one huge one taking all 3 levels or multiple stores.

[UptownJeff]

I see that McKenzie Orthodontics is going into the old BDC space on the main level at King and Germain. Nice to see this

[JHikka]

We routinely beat the Brunswick Square horse here so I guess i'll raise another question: back when Starbucks left BS there was a lot of chatter about them relocating elsewhere in the Uptown, to the point where even a developer suggested to me a possible landing spot for them, only to never set up shop again. With Pizza Hut also relocating out of the Uptown I guess I have to come to the conclusion that it's not a strong enough market for them to remain as things currently stand. There's been no shortage of local, independent businesses open up in the past decade in the Uptown, and those are certainly more interesting than franchise chains, but I think it speaks volumes that these sorts of outlets have left the Uptown and have yet to either return or be replaced.

I don't think this is an issue of a lack of potential locations although that could be it, but with BS continuing to bleed tenants and not replacing them i'm still standing firm on the belief that there's something else up with the property. Are there retail components of Fundy Quay that would make sense for something like Starbucks to return? I'm not going to beat the corporate drum here, but it's interesting that the upswell of the Uptown hasn't been conducive to these franchises staying put in the area, or drawing more of them in in general.

[adamuptownsj]

There's been a LOT of national and regional brands that vacated Brunswick Square and never reopened. Then again, when was the last time a new Deluxe opened anywhere?

Apparently it's had a decent year for office space lease, though.

[adamuptownsj]

Just saw a pair of Cooke SUVs parked at the Lantic site with their occupants moseying around. Hmm...

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Just saw a pair of Cooke SUVs parked at the Lantic site with their occupants moseying around. Hmm...

Good catch

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Just saw a pair of Cooke SUVs parked at the Lantic site with their occupants moseying around. Hmm...

Can’t wait for the Uptown salmon farm pens

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[DyAm00394]

Came across this recent CTV article regarding Market Square's future, in light of the Museum leaving. Hardman Group appears to want to "refresh" Market Square.

"The New Brunswick Museum’s departure from Market Square in uptown Saint John presents a chance for a “refresh,” according to the building’s proprietor.

Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture Tammy Scott-Wallace says a new temporary and permanent location for the New Brunswick Museum in Saint John will soon be announced.

The City of Saint John owns Market Square and it has a lease agreement with Hardman Group Ltd.

“The museum took three floors, so this is a chance for us to maybe break that space into a couple of different areas, (each) one building on the momentum of what people want to see on the waterfront,” says Bill Hardman, the president of Hardman Group Ltd.

Market Square opened in 1983 and was part of an uptown renaissance in Saint John which began in the 1970s.

The New Brunswick Museum began moving exhibits and artifacts into Market Square during the mid-90s, taking over a food court and boutique shops.

The exhibition space was officially opened in April 1996 by then Prince Charles.

In acknowledging the departure of a large tenant, Hardman says he doesn’t believe Market Square will fall into the descending trend of other malls near and far.

“I wouldn’t characterize Market Square as a downtown mall,” says Hardman. “It is many things. You can’t pinpoint it in one direction. That’s what makes Market Square special.”

The Market Square complex will continue to house the Saint John Free Public Library’s central branch.

Hardman says the complex’s atrium and centrepiece fountain will remain through any changes.

Hardman says a complete roof replacement at Market Square is ongoing, with millions of dollars spent on construction so far.

With the museum officially leaving, Hardman says he’s looking forward to an announcement of new tenants before the end of 2023.

“For us, it’s a chance for us to have a refresh of Market Square,” says Hardman. “This change will be great for Market Square.”

Adjacent to the complex is ongoing work along Saint John’s waterfront of the Fundy Quay development.

Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon says Fundy Quay will only help in the city’s bid to secure new Market Square tenants.

“I think there are some real opportunities for that space,” says Reardon. “It’s a big space and it has a library there. Because of that, the public is in there quite a bit.”

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/market-s...john-1.6128774

[ColSJ]

I walked past The Canterbury this morning and noticed the work permit was in the window. The description says 6 residential units on the 2nd and 3rd floor and a restaurant/bar on the ground floor. The project is being done by Singh Property Holdings the family that own Thandis and fixed up the old fire station building on Union Street.

I’m not sure any official job description was ever shared on here for this building so I figured I’d post it.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

I walked past The Canterbury this morning and noticed the work permit was in the window. The description says 6 residential units on the 2nd and 3rd floor and a restaurant/bar on the ground floor. The project is being done by Singh Property Holdings the family that own Thandis and fixed up the old fire station building on Union Street.

I’m not sure any official job description was ever shared on here for this building so I figured I’d post it.

This will be a masterpiece and will complete that stretch of the street. I understand that there will be a dining patio at the rear of building. They are going above and beyond on the restoration/renovation.

[KnoxfordGuy]

I see there is come heavy construction going on between Brunswick Square and Market Square. Any ideas? Modernization?

That whole area should be closed off to cruise passengers. Holy depressing.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

I see there is come heavy construction going on between Brunswick Square and Market Square. Any ideas? Modernization?

That whole area should be closed off to cruise passengers. Holy depressing.

Assume you're referring to the area from Market Square restaurants south to the Port Terminal? This is whole redevelopment of the patios and public space that has been ongoing for a number of months now - the patios etc are scheduled to be done by early next year. The area to the south of this is the Fundy Quay development. The public space should be done well in advance of the start of 2023 cruise season - not sure why you think this is depressing unless you're referring to something else?