Robson Square Renovations

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Big part of the square? Not really.

What would you do? Have the VPD clear them out?

Have the City or Province and Native Bands even tried to talk to each other about the illegal occupancy of the gallery public space?

I don't think so. Just like how people refuse to even talk about "sensitive" issues here, but rather prefer to ignore them altogether or play down the issues. That is seriously lame.

How West Coasters deal with issues: just ignore them and hope they will go away. Only do something drastic if the said issues really fester out of control, such as the illegal tent city occupying a large public park from last year where lives were lost.

If I were the City or the Province, I would offer to build the tribes a memorial from a selected site in the city, or in Victoria, but must be given word that the Art gallery must be vacated and cleaned up. That's the responsible thing to do, especially after so many prospered from the crimes of the past to build this city, province and country.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Have the City or Province and Native Bands even tried to talk to each other about the illegal occupancy of the gallery public space?

You mean how the gallery (Courthouse) was built on unceded native land? No, that hasn't happened yet. It would if the Province ever wanted to sell the land though, or abandon the use of the building.

If you mean the current protest; where do you think the City barriers came from to protect the steps? Of course they're talking. Just not to you. (And nobody calls them 'tribes' in Canada).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

If I were the City or the Province, blah blah blah blah

Have you written to your government representatives? Writing the same old BS on here isn't changing anything.

[wabooba]

This encampment isn't what I would want smack downtown the way it is, but I think people are going to have to get used to it.
To order it moved out or abolished would be totally "Politically Incorrect" at this juncture, and would be met with howls of protest and outrage.
What happened in the residential schools was shocking, but is there a way to both placate (justifiably) outraged First Nations schoolchildren AND return Robson Square to the public realm as originally intended?
Unless another place is designated as a memorial site to the hundreds of murdered First Nations people, this, especially at the heart of downtown, seems destined to be around for a long while to come.
If there is a way to somehow dignify the First Nations people's response, then go for it, but getting around this encampment issue is going to be a toughie at best.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by wabooba

This encampment isn't what I would want smack downtown the way it is, but I think people are going to have to get used to it.
To order it moved out or abolished would be totally "Politically Incorrect" at this juncture, and would be met with howls of protest and outrage.
What happened in the residential schools was shocking, but is there a way to both placate (justifiably) outraged First Nations schoolchildren AND return Robson Square to the public realm as originally intended?
Unless another place is designated as a memorial site to the hundreds of murdered First Nations people, this, especially at the heart of downtown, seems destined to be around for a long while to come.
If there is a way to somehow dignify the First Nations people's response, then go for it, but getting around this encampment issue is going to be a toughie at best.

These issues are complicated for a number of reasons, perhaps the largest of which is there is no consensus among indigenous people about how the government should respond to the mass graves. Keep in mind that many bands have both elected officials and hereditary chiefs who differ on many issues (see the logging protests). Also, some indigenous people would like all such graves dug up and relocated, while some would like to leave the bodies where they lay.

Frankly, I am not sure the government could ever pay indigenous people enough for the land Europeans stole. Just using a valuation tool such as a discounted cash flow for all of the natural resources that have been extracted and the businesses that have run on stolen land would return such an astronomical number since you could argue that all of Canada's GDP would not be possible if not for stolen land. And that's just a financial argument that totally ignores the sentimental value of traditional hunting and fishing grounds.

I, for one, will never claim that an indigenous protest has occupied a public space for too long considering history.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

These issues are complicated for a number of reasons, perhaps the largest of which is there is no consensus among indigenous people about how the government should respond to the mass graves. Keep in mind that many bands have both elected officials and hereditary chiefs who differ on many issues (see the logging protests). Also, some indigenous people would like all such graves dug up and relocated, while some would like to leave the bodies where they lay.

Frankly, I am not sure the government could ever pay indigenous people enough for the land Europeans stole. Just using a valuation tool such as a discounted cash flow for all of the natural resources that have been extracted and the businesses that have run on stolen land would return such an astronomical number since you could argue that all of Canada's GDP would not be possible if not for stolen land. And that's just a financial argument that totally ignores the sentimental value of traditional hunting and fishing grounds.

I, for one, will never claim that an indigenous protest has occupied a public space for too long considering history.

I like how the narrative has changed into the Europeans stealing lands. Same thing is now peddled in Canadian schools. For the record, it was the British, under the British Crown doing the conquering, murdering and stealing in this part of Canada at least. You know the same British that back then treated the Irish, the Italians, the Ukrainians and the rest of the so called "Europeans" as utter garbage and cannon fodder. But now that the genocide has been done and enough time has passed this was somehow done by "Europeans". This would be like blaming "Asians" for Japanese atrocities during World War 2. Or blaming "Europeans" for similar German atrocities.

As for the Robson Square, it has been a protest place as long as I lived here. It reminds of SFU's Convocation Hall which also used to feature all kinds of protests all the time while I was a student there. On surface, it looks like a really nice place to hang out but very few people really do because there is really not much to do there except protest.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The underground rink and the stairs by the waterfall are usually busy, and the new concourse gets used by food trucks... that's about it.

For the record, the French were only slightly kinder to the FN than the Brits were.

[dreambrother808]

The rest of us, non-Brits, came here after to prosper from the plunder, primarily Europeans earlier on but now all of us, as Canadians.

The racist repression of Indigenous rights and lack of concern for their well-being came to be something that was embedded in Canadian psyche and society. While architected by the Brits and the French, it was then unabashedly shared by the populace at large.

We may have evolved degrees away from that view but it is still rooted in many Canadians’ minds.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I believe this started with the discovery of unmarked gravesites from residential schools.

That side of the VAG is not an entrance. It has been protest/demonstration central for decades.

Why are people getting triggered over this? It's not blocking anybody from anything.

But I thought the CoV was virtuously discouraging the use of cars? Now they're providing dedicated parking on public space for special interests? Sounds like a double standard.

And it not like the city doesn't control the Pacific Centre parkade. Or is that just too far for these folks to walk?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

But I thought the CoV was virtuously discouraging the use of cars? Now they're providing dedicated parking on public space for special interests? Sounds like a double standard.

And it not like the city doesn't control the Pacific Centre parkade. Or is that just too far for these folks to walk?

Cars? What?

Why don't you ask these people and get back to us?

[WestEnd604]

I wonder if "Urban, Urban Design & Heritage Issues"
would be a better forum for this discussion. We've gotten far off the topic at hand here folks.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I was going to ask if that was a homeless camp.

There is nothing preventing combining both and making this piece of land basically untouchable to the officials.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why are people getting triggered over this? It's not blocking anybody from anything.

I think there is a pretty good precedent of it keeping expanding. At this rate Hornby Street will be closed by end of the summer.

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

Because ignorance is a dangerous thing and knowledge is bliss.

I also want us to raise awareness on how bad it is to leave garbage behind and just how customizable these rent-it fences can be, but this is not the way or the place to promote such knowledge!!

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Nothing is going to happen until they can convince a native leader to call an end to it.

But what do the hereditary chiefs think?

Originally Posted by Metro-One

If not we just need to wait for that earthquake to turn the entire area in rubble, after which we will get the aforementioned squat overpriced condo tower.

At this point, only a Magnitude 9.0 can save Vancouver from itself.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Klazu

At this point, only a Magnitude 9.0 can save Vancouver from itself.

The melodrama

Move to Calgary, take some blood pressure medication, fix whatever in your life you’re projecting elsewhere.

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by Klazu

At this point, only a Magnitude 9.0 can save Vancouver from itself.

Don't laugh, please. It may be closer than you think. This article from August 2020 starts at a 7.1 quake level but goes on up. It's such a ripe time that it's scary.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...ive-earthquake
But back to the main topic. Excuse me, please.

[mcminsen]

Hornby Street side still fenced off.





June 6 '22, my pics

[s211]

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by s211

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

The museum decolonization was about the exhibits inside, not the structure.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by s211

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

Great excuse to overcome any heritage designation!

... and the Vancouver Public Library offends because of the horrors and torture that occurred in the Roman Coliseum
(so it'll be reclad as a toilet bowl).

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You mean how the gallery (Courthouse) was built on unceded native land? No, that hasn't happened yet. It would if the Province ever wanted to sell the land though, or abandon the use of the building.

If you mean the current protest; where do you think the City barriers came from to protect the steps? Of course they're talking. Just not to you. (And nobody calls them 'tribes' in Canada).

Your home was built on unceded native land too, meaning Aboriginal people have the right to take it over as they see fit?

I do not believe in any illegal occupation of spaces. We as modern citizens and residents should abide by the laws and rules of the day. Full stop. Take everything else to court. Otherwise, run for legislation/parliament and change the current laws to suit your own agenda.

Just like the trucker's occupation of Ottawa, no one should prolong the occupation of public grounds in the name of protest for whatever reason, including those at the Art Gallery square.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by wabooba

This encampment isn't what I would want smack downtown the way it is, but I think people are going to have to get used to it.
To order it moved out or abolished would be totally "Politically Incorrect" at this juncture, and would be met with howls of protest and outrage.
What happened in the residential schools was shocking, but is there a way to both placate (justifiably) outraged First Nations schoolchildren AND return Robson Square to the public realm as originally intended?
Unless another place is designated as a memorial site to the hundreds of murdered First Nations people, this, especially at the heart of downtown, seems destined to be around for a long while to come.
If there is a way to somehow dignify the First Nations people's response, then go for it, but getting around this encampment issue is going to be a toughie at best.

Only in Vancouver, my friend, only in Vancouver. Even the barge gets to be parked forever at Sunset beach with the City unable to remove it.

What happens here are just leaders, including hereditary chiefs, all caving in to the demands, no matter how absurd, of a few a-holes hell-bent to disrupt orderliness. Sadly, the real voices of demands for justice of slain children in residential schools, and their families will be drowned out by this. One very visible sign at the art gallery I could see is for the "return of stolen land". I do not see that to be related to the residential schools at all. The protest merely opened up more cans of worms.