Halifax Retail

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Very scary, but this has been happening for some time. I remember hearing 10+ years ago that Vancouver real estate has been nuts.

What is the reason for this? Is it just prime urban areas that have gone beyond the price range of the average buyer or is it everywhere?

Here's an article on one of the major factors.

Another factor cited often is that in the 70s (I think) a large amount of developable land in the Vancouver area was reserved for agricultural uses, which basically turned "land near Vancouver" into a much more finite resource and valuable commodity. There isn't really any more land within commuting distance of Vancouver that isn't part of the Agricultural Land Reserve (I think that's the official designation), already built on, or a mountain.

Then yeah, there's also the fact that properties there are much more commodified than they are here - in many ways their primary function is no longer a space for residence or work, but basically stocks to be bought and sold. At least that's the impression I get.


I'd be interested in seeing the differences in housing dynamics between Vancouver and Victoria. I get the impression that Victoria was traditionally more old-money and expensive, but has been facing less housing pressure (with the result that both cities are expensive to buy property in now - but it became expensive much more rapidly in Vancouver). I think Victoria might also have some kind of Agricultural Land Reserve (there are others in other parts of BC, and there is farming around Victoria)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

No, it is everywhere. The prime areas are much more expensive but all real estate in the region is inflated. Townhouses an hour from the city will be $500,000, and suburban wood frame condos are often in the $300,000+ range if they are more than shoebox-sized (e.g. 800 square feet; very little is over 1,000, and the lack of multi-unit is definitely part of the problem). I live in a very average suburban development. The condos are in the $300-400s and townhouses are over $600,000. In Vancouver proper it is completely insane. Imagine houses in Fairview going for $1.2M (up from $400k in 2004) and whatnot.

The reasons are up for debate but a study done on the west side of the city revealed that 2/3 of the houses were going to what looked like foreign buyers. The average price in that part of town was in excess of $3 million (for houses similar to West End Halifax) and the typical occupation of a buyer was "homemaker" or "student". Why didn't I get my $3M scholarship when I was a student?

When I moved here I already knew it was bad. It's just a fact of life. I feel bad for people who grew up here though. I am not sure if I will but I could easily imagine moving back to Halifax and being quite happy, and buying real estate their wouldn't be a problem. Locals in a lot of cases on the other hand typically can't afford much of anything here and often have no ties anywhere else in Canada.

I also feel bad for the people who think they have to own a house and stretch to get a $700,000 mortgage on an average salary. If and when the market softens they will be hit the hardest. Those who are of average means and have their hearts set on owning a house would be much better off moving to a city like Halifax to buy. My friends back in Halifax are all much farther along than anybody I know here. Most Vancouver-born folks are kind of insular though; they think anywhere else would be a huge step down.

There is a slippery slope here but I wonder if we will soon need to re-evaluate the idea that Canada has boundless land and resources and that there's room for everybody. Desirable land in the temperate parts of Canada is scarce and Canadians can't easily move to other countries. From a humanitarian perspective it is also much better to help poorer countries; I don't think China or India are really helped that much when we encourage 0.0001% of their wealthiest people to relocate here or, even worse, buy up Canadian land as a speculative investment.

Thanks for your insight! Was in Vancouver this summer but only for a day. I was left with the impression that it would be a very nice place to live, but unfortunately it seems unaffordable for most. Even somebody coming from here who has built up equity in a property would have a hard time moving into the Vancouver market.

It's kind of unsettling to think that land/residential costs can be driven up so high, so quickly by out-of-country speculators. It seems that there should be some kind of regulation against this, but I'm guessing that the intent would be difficult to defend. To a lesser extent, a lot of the coastline of Nova Scotia has been bought by foreign investors as well, but I don't get the impression that land prices have gone crazy as a result.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Here's an article on one of the major factors.

Another factor cited often is that in the 70s (I think) a large amount of developable land in the Vancouver area was reserved for agricultural uses, which basically turned "land near Vancouver" into a much more finite resource and valuable commodity. There isn't really any more land within commuting distance of Vancouver that isn't part of the Agricultural Land Reserve (I think that's the official designation), already built on, or a mountain.

Then yeah, there's also the fact that properties there are much more commodified than they are here - in many ways their primary function is no longer a space for residence or work, but basically stocks to be bought and sold. At least that's the impression I get.


I'd be interested in seeing the differences in housing dynamics between Vancouver and Victoria. I get the impression that Victoria was traditionally more old-money and expensive, but has been facing less housing pressure (with the result that both cities are expensive to buy property in now - but it became expensive much more rapidly in Vancouver). I think Victoria might also have some kind of Agricultural Land Reserve (there are others in other parts of BC, and there is farming around Victoria)

Wow, thanks for the article. There is something seriously wrong there and it sounds like it is ruining the city for the people who just genuinely want to live there.

One question I have is how do the people with low-to-moderately paying jobs even survive there? Has there been a wage adjustment a la Fort McMoney to compensate? For the city to function you still need people to fill jobs at all pay scales, but I can't see how somebody could make it on the lower scale unless they are renting one of those $700/month couches.

It is really worse than I ever imagined. Really.

[HalifaxRetales]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I heard recently this is dead now. Not sure if they are re-upping on their MicMac lease or doing something else.

Mic Mac is still closing this month I beleive,
I asked them recently about that one and the one going in First Lake in Sackville

They said neither was a go but . First Lake is already starting

[OldDartmouthMark]

And it costs more to heat and cool large, stand-alone houses then smaller houses that share common walls not exposed to the outside.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Perhaps, but with modern insulation and heating technologies the savings are minimal.

Just stumbled across this article which I thought was relevant to this off-topic topic:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...rgy-as-it-uses

A little expensive now, but I can see the price coming down to a point where most new construction would be built this way. Would likely be possible to reap most of the benefits through some retrofitting on older homes but largely would depend on the existent insulation package or the ability to improve existing insulation on older homes.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Wow, thanks for the article. There is something seriously wrong there and it sounds like it is ruining the city for the people who just genuinely want to live there.

One question I have is how do the people with low-to-moderately paying jobs even survive there? Has there been a wage adjustment a la Fort McMoney to compensate? For the city to function you still need people to fill jobs at all pay scales, but I can't see how somebody could make it on the lower scale unless they are renting one of those $700/month couches.

It is really worse than I ever imagined. Really.

It's probably not quite as bad as it looks because renting is still often within a fairly affordable range, it's mostly buying property that's become impractical. That said, Vancouver does have some serious poverty/weatlh gap/homelessness issues that are often overshadowed by the more visible wealth. I think prices in places like Surrey and Port Coquitlam are also a bit more reasonable, and have good transit.

I think if anything there has been the opposite of the Fort McMoney effect - the city's desirability is so high that employers don't really need to offer good wages to attract people. You may be right in that this will probably change once the cost of living is so high that people can no longer pay rent with these wages.

Part of the problem is that the BC government is addicted to the tax revenue this is bringing in. I remember there being a bit of controversy a month or two ago when the province deliberately decided to allow this to continue.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Just stumbled across this article which I thought was relevant to this off-topic topic:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...rgy-as-it-uses

A little expensive now, but I can see the price coming down to a point where most new construction would be built this way. Would likely be possible to reap most of the benefits through some retrofitting on older homes but largely would depend on the existent insulation package or the ability to improve existing insulation on older homes.

Insulating these old homes is moderately difficult though. When I bought my house (built in the '20s), it had absolutely no insulation in the walls, just a small bit of vermiculite in the attic (which turned out to have asbestos and had to be removed anyway), and just some bags of seaweed strapped into the bottom of the floor where the 2nd floor overhangs the front porch. Short of taking every wall down, which is even harder to do when it is plaster on lathe, the only reasonable option was blown-in insulation. The issue of course is that there are random cross pieces that they had put in, so it is difficult to get the insulation in to all the places in the walls without drilling a million holes. I love my old home, but boy it has been a lot of work! Contractor is actually just finishing a reno of basement, which turned into a full tear-out back to the foundation once they opened things up and we saw all the problems. As my contractor said "the issue is, there was no building code in 1920 and no oversight, so anyone could build a house and do anything they thought worked"!

[essaysmith]

Originally Posted by HalifaxRetales

Mic Mac is still closing this month I beleive,
I asked them recently about that one and the one going in First Lake in Sackville

They said neither was a go but . First Lake is already starting

Is this the NSLC you are talking about? During the public meeting for the store construction the developer agreed to neighbourhood demands that there never be a liquor store located there. There is a one-liner in the public meeting notes on it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Hali87

It's probably not quite as bad as it looks because renting is still often within a fairly affordable range, it's mostly buying property that's become impractical. That said, Vancouver does have some serious poverty/weatlh gap/homelessness issues that are often overshadowed by the more visible wealth. I think prices in places like Surrey and Port Coquitlam are also a bit more reasonable, and have good transit.

That is true. Vancouver has astronomical real estate prices but rents are only moderately expensive. Something to keep in mind though is that part of that is due to rent controls. Vacancy rates are very low and finding a new apartment can be difficult. Few developers bother building apartments because condos are so much more lucrative.

A lot of the real estate issues unfortunately seem to feed on themselves. Once property values spike, people start to buy houses as an investment. There are lots of people who stretch themselves thin to get "on the ladder" in the hopes that they can keep flipping homes and making more and more money. This is encouraged by low interest rates. Unfortunately these people are going to be burned when rates rise and property values cool off, and in the meantime they are bidding up houses and making everything unaffordable to average people who aren't willing to take on such risks.

Halifax is not as bad but I do think that Vancouver serves as a sort of cautionary tale. Not that much would have to change for housing to become unaffordable in Halifax, and the quality of life of average households would take a big hit if that happened.

[HalifaxRetales]

Originally Posted by essaysmith

Is this the NSLC you are talking about? During the public meeting for the store construction the developer agreed to neighbourhood demands that there never be a liquor store located there. There is a one-liner in the public meeting notes on it.

There used to be a Liquor store there!
and the Sibeys staff were advised there was going to be some remodeling to accomodate a pass thru

[essaysmith]

Originally Posted by HalifaxRetales

There used to be a Liquor store there!
and the Sibeys staff were advised there was going to be some remodeling to accomodate a pass thru

I had heard that there was one when the IGA(?) was there. There was also a bar there when I first moved into the area. The local parents thought that with the schools being so close and Sackville already having 2 NSLCs, that there wasn't really need for another one that close to their homes.
The developer agreed with the concerned locals and said there would never be a bar or liquor store in the new development. So much for that. The development agreement also states that Sobeys would not have an illuminated sign except on the building, and the store sign at the corner of the parking lot lit up my bedroom every night.
Is there anything that could be done anyway? I searched through the current HRM developments and their new map doesn't even list the adjustment of the Sobeys. Trying to sneak it through maybe?

[MonctonRad]

IKEA has just announced that they plan to open another 12 showroom stores "from coast to coast" by 2025.

This is in addition to the new pick-up point locations previously announced.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ing-web-visits

Good news for Halifax???

[Nouvellecosse]

Good news for Ikea in that having an expanded physical presence helps bring greater visibility and awareness to the brand outside of their traditional footprint. But good news for Halifax? Meh. A hungry city wants cake, not crumbs.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Good news for Ikea in that having an expanded physical presence helps bring greater visibility and awareness to the brand outside of their traditional footprint. But good news for Halifax? Meh. A hungry city wants cake, not crumbs.

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm speculating that Halifax may now be in line for one of IKEA's showroom stores by 2025, not a pick-up point store.

[q12]

I think the confusion was with what showroom store means.

Showroom store is the BIG massive 2 level store that Halifax wants.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle27130287/

IKEA Canada president Stefan Sjostrand has ambitious plans for this country.

Mr. Sjostrand said on Thursday IKEA will double its current store count of 12 mega-outlets and double its annual sales of almost $1.8-billion in a decade.

His bullish plans come as other retailers, such as electronics specialist Best Buy and office supply purveyor Staples, close or downsize stores as more customers shift to shopping online. IKEA said its online sales jumped 40 per cent in the past year. And it opened five smaller e-commerce pick-up and order centres in Ontario and Quebec and plans more.

The Swedish-based home furnishings retailer said it increased its overall sales in Canada by 10.4 per cent to $1.795-billion in its fiscal year ended Aug. 31, including online sales of $103-million. It said shopper visits to stores increased 4 per cent while visits online grew 26 per cent in the past year.

IKEA spokeswoman Stephanie Kerr said the chain wants to double the number of “regular” stores in the next 10 years and launch more of the smaller pick-up and order centres. “We want to double the sales as well.”

So now we can officially start speculating on where this new mega IKEA store will go, Bayers Lake or Dartmouth Crossing probably.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by q12

I think the confusion was with what showroom store means.

Showroom store is the BIG massive 2 level store that Halifax wants.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle27130287/




So now we can officially start speculating on where this new mega IKEA store will go, Bayers Lake or Dartmouth Crossing probably.

Yes I was thinking that showroom store was a big step down from a warehouse store, in a similar way that Sears would have smaller locations not quite as big as a Giant Tiger where people could see and buy furniture and appliances and pick up orders. I pictured something with a few displays, but nowhere near the scale of a warehouse store.

[someone123]

It seems to make sense for IKEA to open a full-sized store in Halifax. Quebec City and London are only a few hours away from a bigger store, whereas nothing like that exists in Atlantic Canada. A large IKEA store would probably draw in visitors from around the region, and there's lots of demand in the city itself.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

It seems to make sense for IKEA to open a full-sized store in Halifax. Quebec City and London are only a few hours away from a bigger store, whereas nothing like that exists in Atlantic Canada. A large IKEA store would probably draw in visitors from around the region, and there's lots of demand in the city itself.

My own personal prediction is a showroom store in Halifax and a pick-up store in Moncton.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

My own personal prediction is a showroom store in Halifax and a pick-up store in Moncton.

Seems possible with these ambitious expansion plans. Even Newfoundland might get something.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

My own personal prediction is a showroom store in Halifax and a pick-up store in Moncton.

Why not a showroom store in Moncton and a pickup store in Halifax? Moncton is a lot more central in the region isn't it?