DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

OMG you are so naive.

Well, my mom can beat up your mom! Seriously, though, please pat yourself on the back some more. You obviously did enough to address greenhouse gas emissions and we're all going to be fine.

[seventwenty]

Slideshow for Gates District at 25 & Broadway

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Calling out the suggested racism of your very public post is neither intolerant, nor trolly, nor is it a personal attack. Unlike your response. And it certainly is not some form of hypocritical virtuousness, unfair, nor in the least bit dangerous. Certainly not as dangerous as insinuating that "the Jews" are getting special treatment. It is merely an observation that your comment mirrors centuries of well-known antisemitic slurs and if you did not intend it to be read that way, maybe you should rethink how you wrote it, apologize, and expand upon what you were originally intending. Instead of attacking me for having the gall to call out a disgusting comment. Go on and whip out the thesaurus and find more adjectives for me dude, it still won't change the implied meaning of your original comment.

And in the context of this forum - the neighborhood defeated a measure to upzone as opposed to downzone. Almost every example of zoning battles in east Denver and across the city that were successfully upzoned have been neighbors fighting against or complaining about something that is allowed under the current zoning. 99% of the ones that neighborhoods have defeated have been ones like this, where the developer is wanting to build something that isn't "allowed". We've talked about it before, but the last few years have really illustrated how zoning is a broken tool. And especially when it is decided in a public forum where city council members have to face down constituents. It's much easier for them to defer to zoning or the law and not confront angry people. This was why I had high hopes for changes in zoning, with more sensical main street and upzoned areas, but alas, 'tis still junke.

Moji, your post is commendable. But I highly recommend everyone install the Hide-Bulldurhamer-Posts extension on Chrome. Ignoring this dude's desperate pleas for attention and letting him grow bored enough to crawl back to Twitter seems like the best solution. Especially since Cirrus and Ryan can't be arsed to address his behavior.

Also agree about the impotence of Denveright and the neighborhood plans that have followed its wake. Highly disappointing, despite PLANSIT and a few acquaintances IRL claiming that if we could just get Denveright passed through the City Council, it would be a big improvement. Seems to me that very little has changed.

It's curious that some of our peer cities and states are actually making progress towards zoning reform and addressing SFH dominance. While we seem to be lurching in the opposite direction, given recent city elections as well as the war drum of the 1% growth cap. What is it about Denver that makes it especially NIMBY-beholden? At least we don't have rent control. Yet.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Slideshow for Gates District at 25 & Broadway

Looks pretty good, a lot of density at this TOD
- 887 apartment units
- 380k sf office space
- 180k sf retail/restaurant space

[rds70]

Yet another hotel proposal for downtown. This one is on the triangle parcel at 14th, Court and Colfax where the old Denver child care facility was located:

+/-139,000 gross square foot, 14 floor hotel building at 14th Street and Court Place. There is no proposed parking associated with this project. There will be ground floor retail and lobby space.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by BG918

Looks pretty good, a lot of density at this TOD
- 887 apartment units
- 380k sf office space
- 180k sf retail/restaurant space

I take it from that last picture that there will be a sidewalk underneath the light rail overpass that will allow for quick access to the I25 and Broadway Station from this development. This is exciting but I wish that RTD would construct a parking garage on one of their lots and then sell off much of the surface parking right outside of that station. I imagine that is the second busiest station in RTDs light rail system outside of Union Station. It would be great to make it as walkable and pedestrian friendly as possible.

[Robert.hampton]

RTD directors are voting again next Tuesday on the proposal allowing the Colfax/Broadway parcel to be leased to the Medal of Honor museum -- Gov. Polis suggested emailing board members would be an effective strategy to help them pull their heads out of their asses, so if anyone has interest, shoot 'em your thoughts: http://www.rtd-denver.com/board-of-directors

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Well, my mom can beat up your mom! Seriously, though, please pat yourself on the back some more. You obviously did enough to address greenhouse gas emissions and we're all going to be fine.

It's not about me.

What I may have knowledge of has nothing to do with anything I did. I'm not trying to take credit for the amazing accomplishments of Pres Obama because I voted for him. But since it's already been ten years it's like everybody has already forgotten. I'm happy to honor him and the many other leaders through the years and decades who have made a difference; that's all.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I take it from that last picture that there will be a sidewalk underneath the light rail overpass that will allow for quick access to the I25 and Broadway Station from this development. This is exciting but I wish that RTD would construct a parking garage on one of their lots and then sell off much of the surface parking right outside of that station. I imagine that is the second busiest station in RTDs light rail system outside of Union Station. It would be great to make it as walkable and pedestrian friendly as possible.

I agree with building a parking garage; make it a Big One.

You were very close. Only the bookend station to the A Line at the airport has higher ridership than I-25/Broadway. Downtown stations along 16th and 18th streets are right there as well. Peoria Station has nicely grown its ridership too. You can see the 2019 ridership per station for May 19th thru August 19th HERE.


The Upside to the Downside

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news...-report-100924

Concerns over a potential downturn highlighted ULI's annual Emerging Trends in Real Estate report for 2020. The report, authored in partnership with PwC, compiled a survey of over 1,400 real estate industry experts to take their temperature on the market.

And with respect to real estate?

Despite these risks in other parts of the economy, the commercial real estate market has remained strong with a steady flow of capital coming into properties, said Boston Properties CEO Owen Thomas, ULI's global chairman. "There's an enormous amount of capital that has been raised into funds," Thomas said. "You look at transaction volumes, and most classes remain at robust levels. Cap rates are stable. For the right properties and locations, there’s a strong bid and competitive market."

Props to laniroj who has already pointed this out.

ULI report takes a decidedly cautious tone by repeating much of the negative predictions which are always out there. It's worth noting that the consumer which represents 70% of our economy is still going strong.

An Economic softening could be just what the Doctor ordered

With the softening of global markets in recent months the cost of industrial metals has come down considerably. A slackening in (construction) labor markets wouldn't be such a bad thing.

This could be a Big Boost to building more affordable housing. It's the one obvious sector that has waaay more demand than supply.

[TakeFive]

This is for CherryCreek's weekend reading assignment

Fed's Rosengren flags risks to economy in WeWork-style model
SEPTEMBER 20, 2019 by Ann Saphir/Reuters

I'm not sure the specific risk goes beyond WeWork. OK, I get it but not sure how much concern there should be.

Every lease that WeWorks executes is a separate legal entity which could in times of rising vacancy just declare bankruptcy. The key question here though for Denver specifically, is the office market over-supplied with space? It would take a significant economic downturn to create a big problem. WeWork hardly adds to the risk, it's just a different wrinkle for the market. I see only moderate risk to Denver even with a recession.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I take it from that last picture that there will be a sidewalk underneath the light rail overpass that will allow for quick access to the I25 and Broadway Station from this development. This is exciting but I wish that RTD would construct a parking garage on one of their lots and then sell off much of the surface parking right outside of that station. I imagine that is the second busiest station in RTDs light rail system outside of Union Station. It would be great to make it as walkable and pedestrian friendly as possible.

RTD has talked about this, but one of the stipulations the BoD generally has for such a purchase is that the the buyer has to replace the parking as well. So they've got land costs and another $20M or so in parking costs to bake into the pro forma to make it work- that's probably a deal breaker at this time. Development is not going to happen until the surrounding privately held lots are taken out.

[Denver Dweller]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

OMG you are so naive.

I was a part of an activist crowd that pushed to create the Environmental Protection Agency. At that time most people didn't even know what "Environmental" referred to or why a protection agency was a good idea.

https://www.epa.gov/history

After I graduated from CU in '71, I later lived in Aspen in the mid-1970's. Boulder and Aspen were two of the most environmentally active places in the country. The arguments were about promoting "clean air and clean water." Later conservation was added to the cause.

For 5 decades Colorado has been the center of environmentalism. Even the Western Slope Republicans have been friends. When your livelihood comes from tourism and/or ranching having clean air and water is important. Even the tourists who would come up from Texas for fly fishing preferred their trout have less rather than more mercury inside.

You should at least have some recall of Gov Ritter's pushing a New Energy Economy. He also got the state to spend tons of $'s on retrofitting the state buildings to be energy efficient. He served from 2007-2011.

https://energy.colostate.edu/people/bill-ritter-jr/


Hickenlooper was Denver's mayor from 2003-2011. He was strong on being green with his tree planting program as well as other things. He spearheaded the passage of the Better Denver Bond Program in 2007 which focused a lot of $'s to improving Denver's parks through waster conservation etc.

No president has done more for environmentalism than President Obama. If you are unfamiliar or have forgotten I'm sure you could still Google it.

It's amazing how today's activists act like saving the planet was just invented. I promise, I've forgotten more about the environment and pollution than you've ever learned.

Wow.....such arrogance. Your frequent derailing and political bullshit on this forum gets very old.

[spr8364]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BTW, I panicked 30 years ago when I was told "we had ten years to reverse climate change." Fast forward 30 years and nobody has yet turned into dust.

I'd love to see an article citing this 10 year time frame. I recall the first article I read about "global warming" in 1980ish and there was no real urgency at that time.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

The very last thing we need is more Federal Nannyism. I don't want the Federal gubment dictating what morals or values should be enacted at the local level and unless it involves interstate commerce they should respect state's rights as well.

You greatly exaggerate the problem and where it exists. There's lots of land across this country where housing affordability varies substantially. There's loads of people in Denver who survive making minimum wage or at least a lower wage.

TakeFive - with all due respect, this is a view point of older generations. This is not the view point of younger folks who LITERALLY CANT AFFORD LIFE. They choose between healthcare and housing. They cannot save for retirement. They have to have roommates. They can't afford to start families. They pay 50%-75% of their income on housing, leaving little if any for any of life's other necessities. It's not a matter of the issue being widespread...it is - what data might you propose that says otherwise? The best paying jobs are in major metro areas for most people. There are exceptions to this, but for the vast majority this is the reality.

The issue is that the ruling/voting generation of America retains the decision making power and they are thus far resistant to meaningful change (put another way, they are unwilling to share the opportunities they so easily enjoyed). Say what you want, but this is a generational battle and it's only going to get worse.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

After I graduated from CU in '71, I later lived in Aspen in the mid-1970's.

To quantify how much the world has changed since then, and to point out the naivety of older generations as to the struggles of younger generations (particularly housing), I will point out the following:

You can no longer move to Aspen after you graduate from college. You couldn't even buy a trailer and park it to camp within 20 miles of Aspen. You couldn't even afford to rent a room in Aspen unless you and 6 of your friends built a bunk in a studio apartment/condo. If you're lucky, you might win a housing lottery (which is so vast you might as well buy a lottery ticket) in Basalt, or Carbondale, or Glenwood Springs, but chances are you're commuting to Aspen from Dotsero or Rifle. If you're really lucky you'd have a prosperous restaurant or the ski company with some housing for you in Glenwood. This is what older folks don't understand - young people do not have the same opportunity that old folks did. If you suggested to a college student that they move to Aspen, unless their folks are 0.5%'ers, that's completely laughable. It's the first time in 500 years that the previous generation of Americans didn't leave the next generation a more prosperous life - I'm a die hard libertarian, and federal nannyism on this topic would ABSOLUTELY promote smaller government and result in the government (as a concept in totality) having much less involvement and say with local matters because local government currently has way too much say. Just an opinion, but federal intervention would absolutely help in this case.

[mhays]

That's why a little nannyism is improtant on many fronts. Education, safety net, public transit so people can get to work, pushing back on smoking, doing something about climate change, required immunizations...all of these avoid much larger public expenses in the future.

As for what it's like to be 20 today...speaking as a 50-year-old, I agree that costs are higher and opportunities harder to come by today. In my 20s I cooked for a living while paying cash for community college and going to Europe every year, then ended up in a good white collar career without a degree. That's all much harder now.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by laniroj

To quantify how much the world has changed since then, and to point out the naivety of older generations as to the struggles of younger generations (particularly housing), I will point out the following:

You can no longer move to Aspen after you graduate from college. You couldn't even buy a trailer and park it to camp within 20 miles of Aspen. You couldn't even afford to rent a room in Aspen unless you and 6 of your friends built a bunk in a studio apartment/condo. If you're lucky, you might win a housing lottery (which is so vast you might as well buy a lottery ticket) in Basalt, or Carbondale, or Glenwood Springs, but chances are you're commuting to Aspen from Dotsero or Rifle. If you're really lucky you'd have a prosperous restaurant or the ski company with some housing for you in Glenwood. This is what older folks don't understand - young people do not have the same opportunity that old folks did. If you suggested to a college student that they move to Aspen, unless their folks are 0.5%'ers, that's completely laughable. It's the first time in 500 years that the previous generation of Americans didn't leave the next generation a more prosperous life - I'm a die hard libertarian, and federal nannyism on this topic would ABSOLUTELY promote smaller government and result in the government (as a concept in totality) having much less involvement and say with local matters because local government currently has way too much say. Just an opinion, but federal intervention would absolutely help in this case.

Out of curiosity, I did a quick real estate search on Aspen. Holy crap! I think Aspen might make San Francisco look affordable!

[BG918]

Interesting project underway in Cherry Creek, a major remodel/expansion of the Inn at Cherry Creek. There is currently a tower crane up and they are doing a lot of demolition work on-site.


http://www.4240architecture.com/on-t...-cherry-creek/

There is also a Shake Shack coming to Cherry Creek at 2nd & Josephine.
https://businessden.com/2019/09/23/s...-neighborhood/

[fleury]

Looks like this could turn out interesting. The old day care north of city hall to be demo'd for 14 story hotel. This is old news, but the plans just changed from micro housing (yawn) to hotel. PLUS big bonus here, the architect has a pretty amazing portfolio of work i'm sure everyone on this forum recognizes.

https://businessden.com/2019/09/23/r...rom-city-hall/

https://studiogang.com/projects/architecture

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by fleury

Looks like this could turn out interesting. The old day care north of city hall to be demo'd for 14 story hotel. This is old news, but the plans just changed from micro housing (yawn) to hotel. PLUS big bonus here, the architect has a pretty amazing portfolio of work i'm sure everyone on this forum recognizes.

https://businessden.com/2019/09/23/r...rom-city-hall/

https://studiogang.com/projects/architecture

That is an epic portfolio. I would be interested to see if they do something very modernist looking