Lamenting the decline of the car

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

It is normal to have a pickup stick out a solid meter and a half into the drive aisle, too, because they are so much longer than standard parking spaces.

This is a failure of "standard" parking spaces to reflect reality. If it's a standard vehicle, allowed and approved by the government for general use, then parking standards should accommodate that. Not necessarily for every single vehicle, but when 4 of the 5 top selling vehicles are full size trucks, we're not talking about 5% or outliers or anything.

Originally Posted by JHikka

An easy solution to this is to just lower the height of the parking garage at the entrance to the extent that big pickups like this simply cannot enter. I recently ended up renting a Mitsubishi Outlander and I was picking it up at a parking garage downtown and the height restriction underground was a cool 6'. That vehicle barely made it in.

See above - if it's allowed to be sold as a personal vehicle, it need to be accommodated. Obviously that doesn't apply to lifted trucks, which by the rest of the description of that truck I bet it was lifted. But I've scraped the roof in a stock F-150 (work vehicle) and that shouldn't happen.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

*The 2020 Chevy Silverado 3500HD weighs about 6,231 lbs.
It's about half as heavy as an adult male African Bush elephant. Additionally, the Silverado is about two-fifths as heavy as a T-rex. A T-rex at a museum in Chicago is calculated to have been about 14,000 pounds while alive. That's a lot of weight packed into one animal. Although the Silverado is a fraction of that, it's clear that it's a heavy bit of vehicle.

Let's not pretend that anywhere near a majority of pickups are 3500HDs...

Good to know it could tow a T-Rex though

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

And safety, airbags everywhere in a vehicle now, crumple zones all kinds of shit. Just look at Honda Civics then and now.

The irony is that vehicles are getting bigger in the name of safety, resulting in increasing numbers of pedestrians and cyclists getting killed. Big trucks and SUVs are a lot deadlier to pedestrians than smaller cars and the increase in pedestrian deaths over the last decade is at least partly a result of the trend to larger vehicles. And if we increase the size of roads and parking lots the problem will only get worse. If someone wants to buy a vehicle that's too large for the roads and parking lots that's on them. Our roads are too big already.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by Mister F

And if we increase the size of roads and parking lots as jonny24 advocates the problem will only get worse.

I wouldn't call it advocating... I just said they're not reflective of reality. Most are fine, but parking standards are set by the municipality if I'm not mistaken so could vary, so IF a truck is sticking out 1.5m as was stated, then they're too small.

I would assume most standards have shrunk over time, look at how big cars were in the 60's. I'm thinking they may have gotten too small in some places.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by jonny24

I wouldn't call it advocating... I just said they're not reflective of reality. Most are fine, but parking standards are set by the municipality if I'm not mistaken so could vary, so IF a truck is sticking out 1.5m as was stated, then they're too small.

I would assume most standards have shrunk over time, look at how big cars were in the 60's. I'm thinking they may have gotten too small in some places.

As far as I know, vehicle size and weight and height etc. aren't regulated except in so much as registration requirements and specific restrictions on certain roads requiring special permits in some cases. GM could build a 20-ton, 18-wheeler SUV if they so desired. Owners might need to get a wide-load permit and pay for a police escort, but that's their prerogative.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Sure, I understand that, but esquire was talking about an SUV being more "sure-footed" on the highway than a subcompact car. That's the opposite of what I'd thought was the accepted wisdom.

AWD would be the biggest factor here IMO.

SUV = AWD (almost always)

Sub compact = FWD (almost always).

We have a Hyundai Santa Fe that we put Nokian studded tires on. The combination of AWD and good winter tires makes for a very stress free winter driving experience.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by drew

AWD would be the biggest factor here IMO.

SUV = AWD (almost always)

Sub compact = FWD (almost always).

We have a Hyundai Santa Fe that we put Nokian studded tires on. The combination of AWD and good winter tires makes for a very stress free winter driving experience.

Oh, okay, specifically referring to AWD and winter driving.

AWD is another thing I'm clueless about. I really like having a RWD car (Lexus IS350) after driving FWD cars for quite a while, but I've never had an AWD car. I've driven them, but never for very long, and never in situations where AWD would have been of any benefit.

I once owned one of the stupidest cars ever made: a used 1991 Ford Probe. Never mind the poor quality and awful reliability, it was a FWD car sold as a sporty coupe. Had it for two years before a mechanic put it on a hoist, discovered structural rust on the chassis, and said he really shouldn't be allowed to let me drive it away because of how dangerous it was.

Why'd I buy it? I didn't know much about cars at the time, the price was good, and I was seduced by the sporty looks. The shyster mechanic fixing up (minimally) cars and selling them that I bought it from obviously would have known about the rust, but he saw me coming. Buyer beware!

[theman23]

A lot of popular SUVs (or CUVs, I guess) are actually FWD and AWD is available as an "upgrade". You can also get AWD in a few compacts, and most mid sized sedans have the option as well.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I have no fault whatsoever with people that really need large pickup trucks for work or (very) frequent hauling, or agriculture, etc.

It is the other 90% of people who take up more space (roads, parking...just try getting into your car when there are prickup trucks parked on either side), emit more exhaust fumes, make much more noise, block the views of other motorists, increase wear and tear on roads given greater vehicle weight, and (all too often) act like self-entitled jerks on the road. Those are the people I have a problem with.

You perfectly channel my thoughts. To me, a pick up truck is for two groups...construction workers/contractors and farmers. I've proudly never owned one and had to park one in Montreal and Ottawa and it was not very practical. Many downtown underground parking garages are not designed for them.

My B-I-L is a car salesman and who loves them for the 'riding up high' feel. I prefer to be closer to the ground. I remember him looking at photos we took in London and Paris and remarking about how there weren't any pickup trucks. My smart alec son, knowing my views of pickup trucks, piped up saying 'yeah, people have brains and taste there'.

[drew]

Originally Posted by theman23

A lot of popular SUVs (or CUVs, I guess) are actually FWD and AWD is available as an "upgrade". You can also get AWD in a few compacts, and most mid sized sedans have the option as well.

Absolutely.

But a safe assumption is that SUVs are AWD, sub compacts are not.

You can get some SUVs as FWD or just RWD - but honestly, it is rare, and usually something you see when you are looking for a used car from Texas or California, where winters don't exist. You can even find 2WD 4runners - but they were never sold that way in Canada.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

You perfectly channel my thoughts. To me, a pick up truck is for two groups...construction workers/contractors and farmers. I've proudly never owned one and had to park one in Montreal and Ottawa and it was not very practical. Many downtown underground parking garages are not designed for them.

You usually need a truck if you want to pull a trailer that weighs in excess of ~5,000 lbs. Lots of bigger boats, medium size and up campers and obviously 5th wheels fall into that category.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Oh, okay, specifically referring to AWD and winter driving.

AWD is another thing I'm clueless about. I really like having a RWD car (Lexus IS350) after driving FWD cars for quite a while, but I've never had an AWD car. I've driven them, but never for very long, and never in situations where AWD would have been of any benefit.

I once owned one of the stupidest cars ever made: a used 1991 Ford Probe. Never mind the poor quality and awful reliability, it was a FWD car sold as a sporty coupe. Had it for two years before a mechanic put it on a hoist, discovered structural rust on the chassis, and said he really shouldn't be allowed to let me drive it away because of how dangerous it was.

Why'd I buy it? I didn't know much about cars at the time, the price was good, and I was seduced by the sporty looks. The shyster mechanic fixing up (minimally) cars and selling them that I bought it from obviously would have known about the rust, but he saw me coming. Buyer beware!

When I had an Infiniti FX35, which I would class as a cuv but some may consider it an suv it handled really well. They were based on the G35 I believe and it was really fun to drive. Turning radius was a joke but cornering was great and rear biased awd was quite fun.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

My B-I-L is a car salesman and who loves them for the 'riding up high' feel. I prefer to be closer to the ground. I remember him looking at photos we took in London and Paris and remarking about how there weren't any pickup trucks. My smart alec son, knowing my views of pickup trucks, piped up saying 'yeah, people have brains and taste there'.

And extremely high fuel taxes and often taxes on heavy vehicles. Though even that hasn't stopped Europeans from falling in love with the crossover.

[kool maudit]

Some guys have big pickups here, Dodge Rams with 5.7L Hemis and stuff like that. It's a phenomenon you see in small towns and satellite cities, where guys with workshops and stuff get a big "work truck" for the company, totally option it out, and use it as their main ride. A lot of these guys are into things like dirt bikes, jet skis and stuff like that -- I've got a buddy like this, and it totally makes sense for him.

The thing is, he is fucked once he crosses into Stockholm. It's not like its Naples or something, but still, nothing is built for him: not the lanes, not the side streets. He can't even really park in the garages unless he is lucky and gets a weird side space or something. It's just too huge for everything, and likely to get dinged. Of course, this guy's subculture means that he doesn't like to come into Stockholm anyway -- he would rather be on the lake. But for me, who is renting one of those little A-class hatches right now, I kind of like how the city keeps those trucks at bay.

Because if everyone was in a tank like Douglas has, my little easy-to-park, perfect-for-town ride would start to feel like a beer can on parade day.

Side note: gas is CAD 2.12/litre here. I suppose that is a game-changer. I don't even think they import the A200 to Canada -- both the body and engine are too small.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Some guys have big pickups here, Dodge Rams with 5.7L Hemis and stuff like that. It's a phenomenon you see in small towns and satellite cities, where guys with workshops and stuff get a big "work truck" for the company, totally option it out, and use it as their main ride. A lot of these guys are into things like dirt bikes, jet skis and stuff like that -- I've got a buddy like this, and it totally makes sense for him.

The thing is, he is fucked once he crosses into Stockholm. It's not like its Naples or something, but still, nothing is built for him: not the lanes, not the side streets. He can't even really park in the garages unless he is lucky and gets a weird side space or something. It's just too huge for everything, and likely to get dinged. Of course, this guy's subculture means that he doesn't like to come into Stockholm anyway -- he would rather be on the lake. But for me, who is renting one of those little A-class hatches right now, I kind of like how the city keeps those trucks at bay.

Because if everyone was in a tank like Douglas has, my little easy-to-park, perfect-for-town ride would start to feel like a beer can on parade day.

Side note: gas is CAD 2.12/litre here. I suppose that is a game-changer. I don't even think they import the A200 to Canada -- both the body and engine are too small.

That's one thing I noticed when travelling from Europe south of the Baltic Sea to north of the Baltic: you start to see (some) pickup trucks again!

[WarrenC12]

EVs are far better in the snow than ICE. Look at Tesla Model 3 snow reviews, specifically RWD which would be a disaster in an ICE.

Low centre of gravity, heavy, perfect weight distribution (thanks to the battery), anti-slip, and sensitive throttle with no transmission all help.

[kool maudit]

That makes sense, I didn't know that. I guess a PHEV would have some of the advantages too, although to a lesser degree,

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Though even that hasn't stopped Europeans from falling in love with the crossover.

This thing is really popular here. I can't believe how many you see, given that it starts at CAD 120,000:



It's like the electric-ness launders the SUV-ness.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

EVs are far better in the snow than ICE. Look at Tesla Model 3 snow reviews, specifically RWD which would be a disaster in an ICE.

Low centre of gravity, heavy, perfect weight distribution (thanks to the battery), anti-slip, and sensitive throttle with no transmission all help.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ella-snow-day/

[drew]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

EVs are far better in the snow than ICE. Look at Tesla Model 3 snow reviews, specifically RWD which would be a disaster in an ICE.

Low centre of gravity, heavy, perfect weight distribution (thanks to the battery), anti-slip, and sensitive throttle with no transmission all help.

Just don't travel too far out in the snow!

(winter battery range dig)