Public Realm in Canadian Cities - Developments

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Isn't there any retail in the Toronto subway?

Here in Montreal there is at least a convenience store in every station, and in the busier ones there is a pretty diverse collection of retail and food outlets.

I'm quite jealous with the way retail was integrated on transit in the Big 3 cities. I believe this was part of the plan with the original Edmonton tunnel stations, but there were too few riders to make those spaces viable. Not sure about Calgary.

In Ottawa, 4/12 stations were designed to accommodate a small retail kiosk. A local coffee shop chain won the contract for all four. Due to the pandemic, the opening of those shops was delayed and only one is open at this time at Blair station.


https://twitter.com/TimTierney/statu...80700235984899

No official word on Stage 2 retail, but I'm expecting maybe 3 or 4 out of 24 new and "new" stations.

The old Transitway had maybe 6 convenience stores throughout the corridor.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The problem with Melbourne, or basically Australia in general, would be the isolation.

Weirdly that's not the impression I get from the people I know who live in Sydney and Melbourne. Because Australia is so far away from everything, there is a more entrenched culture of long-haul travel, so people don't really think twice about hopping on a 9-hour flight. Plus the lack of a time difference with Asia makes it feel remarkably close. You can get on a plane, fall asleep and wake up in Hong Kong or Singapore with no jet lag.

I'm sure the isolation would feel more acute in rural areas, or in smaller cities like Adelaide. But Melbourne and Sydney feel so diverse and globally connected they really don't give you the impression on being on the opposite side of the world. Maybe because they are so far away, the rest of the world looms large in a way that makes North America feel insular and self-centred.

[Kilgore Trout]

Anyway, to bring things back on topic, here are the newly unveiled reconstruction plans for Pine Avenue (avenue des Pins) in the Plateau Mont-Royal borough of Montreal. It's a horrible street and it will be rebuilt over the next two years, with the stretch between St-Denis and St-Laurent completed in fall 2021 and the stretch from St-Laurent to Parc Avenue completed in fall 2022.

As you can see the new arrangement will include trees and uni-directional bike paths. It seems the option chosen by the borough will have a "Copenhagen-style path" (their words) that runs alongside the sidewalk, but at a lower grade and with a different paving material. The other option was to have the path run on the other side of the trees, alongside vehicular traffic, but again with a difference in grade and material. This seems like it would be an invitation for drivers to park illegally and block the path.

The street as it exists today. No shade, narrow sidewalks and painted bike lanes that are constantly blocked by delivery vehicles and illegally parked cars.





The makeover:







Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/velo...8169857187568/

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm quite jealous with the way retail was integrated on transit in the Big 3 cities. I believe this was part of the plan with the original Edmonton tunnel stations, but there were too few riders to make those spaces viable. Not sure about Calgary.

All of the downtown stations have retail either attached or in extremely close proximity. None of the other stations do. Stampede, Erlton, Anderson, Heritage, Southland, and the original Chinook Station were all built with a kiosk area, but I'm unsure if they've ever been used.

[Peggerino]

I love that Montreal redesign. Something like that is how I feel the vast majority of urban stroads should be treated in the coming years. Increase sidewalk width, add bike lane, add curb with planted trees, and then transit or slowed vehicle traffic in the middle.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

St Thomas has had a great rebuild of its Main Street recently too.

St.Thomas really has changed a lot and all for the better. It's downtown renewal has been very dramatic and successful. It also has built a rail path over high over the river on it's abandoned rail line.

St.Thomas use to be the butt of jokes in London due to it's derelict downtown and smokey industrial past but no longer. It has really taken advantage of it 'Railway Capitol of Canada' history and is getting an increasing number of tourists helped by being an older city with a lot of great historic architecture.

Elgin county is really starting to become a tourist draw due to it's old lakeside towns like Port Stanley, the rejuevenation and growth of St.Thomas, and it's lush agricultural lands. It is also becoming a retirement draw due to it's proximity to London but with cheaper housing and in the south-west part of the county, the least amount of snow east of BC receiving only 80cm /year.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

St Thomas has had a great rebuild of its Main Street recently too.

St.Thomas really has changed a lot and all for the better.

It's downtown renewal has been very dramatic and successful. It also has built a rail path over high over the river on it's abandoned rail line.

St.Thomas use to be the butt of jokes in London due to it's derelict downtown and smokey industrial past but no longer. It has really taken advantage of it 'Railway Capitol of Canada' history and is getting an increasing number of tourists helped by being an older city with a lot of great historic architecture.

Elgin county is really starting to become a tourist draw due to it's old lakeside towns like Port Stanley, the rejuvenation and growth of St.Thomas, and it's lush agricultural lands with great markets and vineyards. It is also becoming a retirement draw due to it's proximity to London but with cheaper housing and in the south-west part of the county, the least amount of snow east of BC receiving only 80 cm /year and due to it's warmer winter, VERY little accumulation.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Weirdly that's not the impression I get from the people I know who live in Sydney and Melbourne. Because Australia is so far away from everything, there is a more entrenched culture of long-haul travel, so people don't really think twice about hopping on a 9-hour flight. Plus the lack of a time difference with Asia makes it feel remarkably close. You can get on a plane, fall asleep and wake up in Hong Kong or Singapore with no jet lag.

I'm sure the isolation would feel more acute in rural areas, or in smaller cities like Adelaide. But Melbourne and Sydney feel so diverse and globally connected they really don't give you the impression on being on the opposite side of the world. Maybe because they are so far away, the rest of the world looms large in a way that makes North America feel insular and self-centred.

Yeah, in my experience any city that's reasonably large won't really feel isolated, no matter where it's located. In my experience that's definitely the case for Melbourne and Sydney.

And I agree with you that Australians are a bit more globally-focused than North Americans. For all the diversity, the US and Canada it is pretty self-centred I'd agree.

Though I'd add that Aussies do tend to overplay just how much Asian cultural influence their country has. Relative to, say, British, continental European and American. Or even South African.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, in my experience any city that's reasonably large won't really feel isolated, no matter where it's located. In my experience that's definitely the case for Melbourne and Sydney.

And I agree with you that Australians are a bit more globally-focused than North Americans. For all the diversity, the US and Canada it is pretty self-centred I'd agree.

Though I'd add that Aussies do tend to overplay just how much Asian cultural influence their country has. Relative to, say, British, continental European and American. Or even South African.

Air travel is far less expensive and more convenient in Australia than in Canada. Pre-pandemic, I worked a couple of days per week in Singapore. Door to door, I could do it in 7 hrs (would take red eye both ways and sleep on the plane), typically for around $400 return. One way fares between Sydney and Melbourne of $49 are relatively easy to find for fliers willing to accept off-peak scheduling, far more affordable and quicker than the 8hr drive. Even from Sydney and Melbourne, return flights to places like Bali and Thailand can often be had for less than $500. Security check-ins and Customs are highly automated and fast. Sydney and Brisbane have rapid transit to the airports. Melbourne, Perth and Gold Coast have excellent bus service to the terminals. Both Melbourne airports are rather remote, but have frequent rapid bus into Southern Cross. Sydney's new airport will be very distant. Taxes and fees on air tickets are minimal. Fares could rise with the bankruptcy of Virgin Australia.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

St Thomas has had a great rebuild of its Main Street recently too.

How recent? I was most recently there in 2017 and its Main Street sorely needed some love.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though I'd add that Aussies do tend to overplay just how much Asian cultural influence their country has. Relative to, say, British, continental European and American. Or even South African.

Australia isn't any more culturally connected to Asia than Canada, but it's far more economically connected. As Doug just mentioned, it's not uncommon for people to travel to Asia frequently for work. And of course places like Bali and Thailand are their equivalent of the Caribbean in terms of holiday destinations.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by JHikka

How recent? I was most recently there in 2017 and its Main Street sorely needed some love.

It’s still half way done but they did part summer of 2017 and another bit in 2018. More is planned in 2022 and in 2025 I believe. I drove through it this spring on one of my COVID drives to keep myself busy.

Google streetview has the 2017 part in streetview:

https://goo.gl/maps/xaPVmpZx3nNRDAA88

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Australia isn't any more culturally connected to Asia than Canada, but it's far more economically connected. As Doug just mentioned, it's not uncommon for people to travel to Asia frequently for work. And of course places like Bali and Thailand are their equivalent of the Caribbean in terms of holiday destinations.

I would argue that Australia skews closer to the Melting Pot construct than does Canada so economic and family connections to Asia aren't as influential as they would be in Canada

I live in the city with perhaps the largest representation of South African expats and don't perceive any influence whatsoever. South Africa shares some British heritage, climate and economic competencies (ex. mining) with Australia, so expats blend in well by default.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

All of the downtown stations have retail either attached or in extremely close proximity. None of the other stations do. Stampede, Erlton, Anderson, Heritage, Southland, and the original Chinook Station were all built with a kiosk area, but I'm unsure if they've ever been used.

Thanks for the response. Too bad those spaces outside of downtown are not being utilized.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Anyway, to bring things back on topic, here are the newly unveiled reconstruction plans for Pine Avenue (avenue des Pins) in the Plateau Mont-Royal borough of Montreal. It's a horrible street and it will be rebuilt over the next two years, with the stretch between St-Denis and St-Laurent completed in fall 2021 and the stretch from St-Laurent to Parc Avenue completed in fall 2022.

As you can see the new arrangement will include trees and uni-directional bike paths. It seems the option chosen by the borough will have a "Copenhagen-style path" (their words) that runs alongside the sidewalk, but at a lower grade and with a different paving material. The other option was to have the path run on the other side of the trees, alongside vehicular traffic, but again with a difference in grade and material. This seems like it would be an invitation for drivers to park illegally and block the path.

The street as it exists today. No shade, narrow sidewalks and painted bike lanes that are constantly blocked by delivery vehicles and illegally parked cars.





Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/velo...8169857187568/

Avenue des Pins has some ridiculously narrow sidewalks. Good to see this will finally be resolved.

[J.OT13]

New viewing platform at Chaudiere Falls/Dam.

Originally Posted by zzptichka

BTW Hydro Ottawa opened this lookout for public. Worth a visit.

[Maldive]

Plan to rebuild Yonge Street with wider sidewalks, fewer lanes goes to Toronto Council

Toronto Star article: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...y-council.html
“...proposal that would make dramatic changes to Yonge, at the same time as Toronto replaces 140-year-old water and sewer infrastructure underneath the street. Once reconstructed, Yonge Street would see dramatically wider sidewalks and the street itself reduced to just two lanes. As well, portions of Yonge would be closed to through traffic during the day in order to prioritize pedestrians and cycling.”

Along with Cadillac Fairview, 250 retailers and tenants are objecting to the reduction of traffic lanes between Dundas and Queen Street East. “the lane reductions would make loading and onloading for curbside pickup impossible and that restrictions on deliveries would be “catastrophic for businesses.”

urbanflight

urbanflight

urbanflight

urbanflight

Existing

urbanflight

[J.OT13]

That would have quite an impact. Any chance they might take the opportunity to improve some of the 1950s subway stations?

And how are the water and sewer utilities 140 years old? Did they not upgrade them when they built the subway? Even in Ottawa they replaced the 100+ year old utilities under Queen street even though the subway was mined from under the street.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks for the response. Too bad those spaces outside of downtown are not being utilized.



Avenue des Pins has some ridiculously narrow sidewalks. Good to see this will finally be resolved.

Finally! This has been a long time coming, just a really unpleasant street to walk on. I would always go out of my way to avoid it.

[niwell]

I like many aspects of the Yonge plan, but honestly don't think it needs bike lanes. Would rather see the space used for expanded pedestrian use, and it could provide for designated delivery areas if necessary. IIRC the bike lanes proposed would only exist for a few blocks anyways

[Innsertnamehere]

It only has bike lanes between Gerard and College since there is space there.