Your city's "favoured quarter"

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by Docere

Trying to imagine Yonge St. being rundown through much of the old city of Toronto (a run-down Rosedale?), Yonge and Eglinton as New Center, and I guess the consistently affluent zone doesn't really start until Lawrence or York Mills!



Basically - the Yonge corridor south of the 401 - running from Bathurst to Bayview/Leslie is WASP and Jewish (York Mills - the newest, most suburban part is the exception - has a lot of wealthy Asians). Bathurst is of course the main street for Jewish Toronto and it runs next to and in some cases bumps up with the traditional old money corridor - i.e. Forest Hill.

I never found the SFH in western York Mills proper to be very Asian, although I guess you could say it is if you count that nice area around Laurentide Drive/Donalda Golf Club as Part of York Mills.

Hoggs Hollow has always struck me as more Old Money WASP with a sizeable Old Money-ish conservative/secular Jewish minority.

Henry Farm and parts of Willowdale are nearby to York Mills and seems overwhelmingly Asian . It generally gets more Asian as you go north of the 401.

But throughout the GTA there is no doubt that there are more wealthy Asian neighborhoods proportionate to their population.

[Docere]

Banbury, Old Colony Rd. etc. are quite Asian now. Hogg's Hollow is, as you say, more old money-ish.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I never found the SFH in western York Mills proper to be very Asian, although I guess you could say it is if you count that nice area around Laurentide Drive/Donalda Golf Club as Part of York Mills.

Hoggs Hollow has always struck me as more Old Money WASP with a sizeable Old Money-ish conservative/secular Jewish minority.

Henry Farm and parts of Willowdale are nearby to York Mills and seems overwhelmingly Asian . It generally gets more Asian as you go north of the 401.

But throughout the GTA there is no doubt that there are more wealthy Asian neighborhoods proportionate to their population.

Originally Posted by Docere

Banbury, Old Colony Rd. etc. are quite Asian now. Hogg's Hollow is, as you say, more old money-ish.

It seems like that area of eastern North York overall has definitely gotten a lot more Asian-influenced since the time I grew up there in the 90s or so. Neighbourhoods along the current Sheppard subway line, and within a block or two north or south of it, like the ones you mention seemed much more "white Canadian" even as little as one or a couple decades ago.

I remember back in the earlier part of the 90s, the Asian influence in the suburban 416 was mainly a Scarborough-Agincourt thing, that didn't really extend as far west very much past the DVP/highway 404. It seemed like the boundary between the heavily Asian Scarborough, and more "white" eastern North York was very "sharp" -- it seemed very obvious going along Sheppard ave. when a very large presence of Chinese restaurants/shops begun and ended. But now it's less clear where the "ethnoburb" ends and starts and you can see the Asian presence spill over quite a lot.

[Capsicum]

Is that a reflection of spatial "assimilation" for the Asians -- people are leaving and spreading out from the "ethnoburbs" to the more mixed white-Asian (and other races) neighbourhoods in North York as they get wealthier and more acculturated to old money Anglo-Canadian culture (just like the Jewish communities before them). I think parts of Scarborough Agincourt are actually losing population, right? Maybe some more increasingly wealthy assimilationist Asians are choosing to live in places like those in North York, but those that prefer to be with their community continue the northward path from Agincourt up into the Markham/Richmond Hill 905 "ethnoburb". Parts of York Region's sprawling, car dependent Chinese ethnoburbia with both SFH and still large ethnic malls that need to be driven to evoke the San Gabriel valley in LA's metro, but with a different climate, landscape and architecture.

[Obadno]

IN Phoenix its Starting downtown adn Moving generally North and East. This includes Paradise Valley, Scottsdale, the wealthiest parts the City of Phoenix, Cave Creek, Carefree, North Scottsdale, fountain Hills etc.

There are wealthy neighborhoods in other spots but none to the wealth and consentration to the Northeast Quadrent of the metro area.

Also home to most of the upscale resorts, dining, shopping etc.

[Prahaboheme]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

No, Los Angeles does not have a "favored quarter" as you've described it, namely, "a wedge running from the core towards the affluent suburbs."

This is like another lets-pretend-all-cities-are-apples-and-do-an-apples-to-apples-comparison exercise.




I disagree. The Pico-Union neighborhood, for example, is north of the 10 and west of downtown, but is not a favorable or desirable neighborhood. Plenty of other areas north of the 10 and west of downtown that also are not favorable or desirable.

I’d say it’s more like north of Wilshire Blvd and points west of Koreatown.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

I’d say it’s more like north of Wilshire Blvd and points west of Koreatown.

You guys are splitting hairs. Even "favored quarters" can have a few less desirable areas. Generally speaking the 10 Freeway is a perfect southern boundary to the LA quadrant that extends from downtown to the ocean. The northern boundary really runs from downtown northwest along the 5 Freeway to the 134 Freeway which meets up with the 101 a bit to the west. The 101 Freeway then serves as the northern boundary, roughly speaking, of this prosperous quadrant heading west through the southern part of the SF valley towards Ventura.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by austlar1

You guys are splitting hairs. Even "favored quarters" can have a few less desirable areas. Generally speaking the 10 Freeway is a perfect southern boundary to the LA quadrant that extends from downtown to the ocean. The northern boundary really runs from downtown northwest along the 5 Freeway to the 134 Freeway which meets up with the 101 a bit to the west. The 101 Freeway then serves as the northern boundary, roughly speaking, of this prosperous quadrant heading west through the southern part of the SF valley towards Ventura.

Exactly, less desirable pockets within desirable areas are great investment locations for flippers, land bankers and redevelopment.

[Crawford]

The Westside is clearly the LA favored quarter. Anything close to the ocean, with mild weather, and access to job centers. OC is largely the same.

[Prahaboheme]

Originally Posted by austlar1

You guys are splitting hairs. Even "favored quarters" can have a few less desirable areas. Generally speaking the 10 Freeway is a perfect southern boundary to the LA quadrant that extends from downtown to the ocean. The northern boundary really runs from downtown northwest along the 5 Freeway to the 134 Freeway which meets up with the 101 a bit to the west. The 101 Freeway then serves as the northern boundary, roughly speaking, of this prosperous quadrant heading west through the southern part of the SF valley towards Ventura.

Isn’t splitting hairs kind of the point here? If you know LA well enough, I don’t think you would say that the 10 freeway is the perfect southern boundary.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

Isn’t splitting hairs kind of the point here? If you know LA well enough, I don’t think you would say that the 10 freeway is the perfect southern boundary.

Exactly. The 10 is a boudnary, even west of the 405? Then you're cutting off South Santa Monica, all of Venice, Marina Del Rey, Westchester, Playa Vista, Playa del Rey, etc. That's a ton of valuable real estate just in that one section. Not to metion Ladera Hts/Baldwin Hills, Culver City and up and coming areas like North Inglewood, West Adams east of the 405.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Exactly. The 10 is a boudnary, even west of the 405? Then you're cutting off South Santa Monica, all of Venice, Marina Del Rey, Westchester, Playa Vista, Playa del Rey, etc. That's a ton of valuable real estate just in that one section. Not to metion Ladera Hts/Baldwin Hills, Culver City and up and coming areas like North Inglewood, West Adams east of the 405.

Well. the 10 is a good approximate boundary for most of it's length west of downtown, just as the 101 is a good "approximate" boundary for the northern edge of the quadrant. Certainly there are areas like Culver City and most of the beach communities as far south as Palos Verdes that fall outside of that boundary, and there are areas north of the 101 in the western SF valley that do the same. It's absurd to think of a descriptive term like a "favored quarter" as having absolutely rigid boundaries. I know LA pretty well, especially the area in question.

[10023]

I would think that LA is one of the more obvious ones. Its favored quarter is from Downtown to the ocean, between the I-10 and the mountains.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t very nice areas outside of that area, or that there isn’t a single undesirable street within it. But it’s clearly the generally more affluent, desirable, expensive, culturally important, etc macro section of city.

To say “oh but what about Pasadena?” completely misses the point of the thread.

[edale]

I actually don't think LA has as much as a favored quarter as other cities do. The superficial answer is the West Side, but it certainly wouldn't be all the way from downtown to the coast, mountains to the 10. That's picking up Pico-Union, Westlake, Koreatown, Filipino Town, Hollywood, East Hollywood...lots of areas that don't fit the bill.

Like most things LA related, the favored quarter is complex, and there is more than one. I would say the favored quarters of LA are basically:
Coast: Malibu to Palos Verdes
West Side: La Brea to Brentwood
Hills: Silverlake to Bel Air

This kind of gets at Banham's 4 Ecologies type of understanding of the city, I guess.

[Docere]

In major cities, there's going to be a mixture of people and incomes, but that doesn't mean there aren't desirable quadrants or directonals as a whole.

[Docere]

Here's an updated income map of the Toronto area. An overall prosperous but mixed income core, a wealthy "central corridor" running north of downtown and more working class districts in the northwestern periphery and Scarborough to the east. There is a secondary wealth concentration in the western suburbs.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...so-simple.html

[edale]

Originally Posted by Docere

In major cities, there's going to be a mixture of people and incomes, but that doesn't mean there aren't desirable quadrants or directonals as a whole.

Yes, but in LA it doesn't emanate out from the core like it does in say, Chicago's north side. There is a substantial wealth gap going west until you hit the actual west side. The coast and mountains are arguably their own 'quarters' too. In LA it's less about direction from the core, and more about geography. Probably a symptom of the polycentric nature of LA, and also the fact that DTLA has traditionally been relatively unimportant and run down until recently.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by edale

I actually don't think LA has as much as a favored quarter as other cities do. The superficial answer is the West Side, but it certainly wouldn't be all the way from downtown to the coast, mountains to the 10. That's picking up Pico-Union, Westlake, Koreatown, Filipino Town, Hollywood, East Hollywood...lots of areas that don't fit the bill.

Like most things LA related, the favored quarter is complex, and there is more than one. I would say the favored quarters of LA are basically:
Coast: Malibu to Palos Verdes
West Side: La Brea to Brentwood
Hills: Silverlake to Bel Air

This kind of gets at Banham's 4 Ecologies type of understanding of the city, I guess.

Everywhere is complex that isnt special to the LA metro bu the areas West and NW of downtown LA are clearly on average the nicer and more affluent areas.

Down in Orange county is also nice and the Coast alwasy creates an area of wealth along it but thats Irvine, newport etc are practically their own Metro.

[Docere]

Is L.A.'s social geography especially complex?

[10023]

Originally Posted by Docere

In major cities, there's going to be a mixture of people and incomes, but that doesn't mean there aren't desirable quadrants or directonals as a whole.

Right. The North Side (and North Shore) is still Chicago’s “favored quarter” despite the presence of Cabrini Green, Edgewater, Rogers Park, and south Evanston.

Originally Posted by edale

Yes, but in LA it doesn't emanate out from the core like it does in say, Chicago's north side. There is a substantial wealth gap going west until you hit the actual west side. The coast and mountains are arguably their own 'quarters' too. In LA it's less about direction from the core, and more about geography. Probably a symptom of the polycentric nature of LA, and also the fact that DTLA has traditionally been relatively unimportant and run down until recently.

That doesn’t mean LA doesn’t have a favored quarter, just that it doesn’t start in the CBD.

Although, taking a slightly different definition (one not focused on wealth of residents), one could start with DTLA. Koreatown and Hollywood aren’t particularly affluent, but they are definitely included in the “part of LA that matters” sense of the term. By which I mean, for example, that when Europeans in London talk about visiting LA, that’s what LA is - from Downtown to the ocean, between I-10 and the hills. Of course the boundaries are fuzzy (Venice is south of I-10, if you don’t count Venice Blvd as an extension of it), but that’s a pretty good guide to where one wants to be.

In fact the more I think about it, the more I think that LA is one of the most extreme examples of a clear “favored quarter” in the world. Rancho Palos Verdes is nice but no one goes there, Orange County is a different place entirely, and there are hundreds of square miles of nondescript, working class, midcentury suburbia across the broad basin in between.