Are the BC Liberals Imploding?

[whatnext]

It certainly seems so with our "now-he-is-now-he-isn't" Solicitor General. Add in the HST debacle, the upcoming BC Rail trial and the still unresolved John Les affair and I get the impression of a gov't past their "best before" date.

[Zassk]

All I will say is that this situation doesn't seem nearly as dire as when the NDP or Socreds imploded. In both those cases, there was a profound sense of inevitability, and rats fled the sinking ship. So far the Liberals aren't at that point, although they might be one more real scandal away from it.

[Stingray2004]

So what's the alternative? Carole James, who grates worse than fingernails running across a chalkboard, and her band of second-string merry men with Moe Sihota as NDP party president to boot?

Time for Dianne Watts to take over the Liberal reign.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

So what's the alternative? Carole James, who grates worse than fingernails running across a chalkboard, and her band of second-string merry men with Moe Sihota as NDP party president to boot?

Time for Dianne Watts to take over the Liberal reign.

Yep.. Liberals are still in power due to the sheer incompetence of the NDP.

[PaperTiger]

I think Gordo is clearly past his best before date, as are most of his cronies.

We have to remember that there is still three years until the next election. Hopefully the Libs can clean up their act and rebrand under a new leader before then.

If they can’t , it will be 4 years of Ms. James squawking on the news every night (shudder).

[josiebug]

It's odd to me to not vote for a certain party because you find their leader annoying.

Who cares? It's what their party stands for/does that matters.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by josiebug

It's odd to me to not vote for a certain party because you find their leader annoying.

Really? Are you new to Earth? Let me be the first to welcome you.

[josiebug]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Really? Are you new to Earth? Let me be the first to welcome you.

What a well thought out intelligent reply. Thanks for that contribution.

I guess rather than someone who is annoying you'd rather a drunk?

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by josiebug

It's odd to me to not vote for a certain party because you find their leader annoying.

Who cares? It's what their party stands for/does that matters.

Good point. Gordo is very annoying and the Liberals are centre/centre-right and you know what they stand for.

And then you have the inept NDP. While they were in government they supported the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge (Hansard 1993), introduced run-of-river IPP's, introduced tax credits for the northeast natural gas industry, etc. Good on them.

Now in opposition the NDP rails against everyone of those policies that they introduced.

Before the May, 2009 provincial election they were against the carbon tax and IPP's.

Just after the May, 2009 provincial election:

NDP Backtracks On Carbon Tax, Opposition to IPPs
Friday, June 12, 2009 | 2:14 PM PT

B.C. New Democrats are backing away from their opposition to the government's carbon tax and their call for an immediate moratorium on independent power projects (IPPs).

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...#ixzz0nB51OWfU

And disgraced Moe Sihota, the new president of the BC NDP?

And the perennial tax and spend NDP now taking right-wing, Reform Party, Vanderzalm-like positions against taxes?

What does the NDP stand for except for silliness and flip-flop positions in a lust for power? I'm all ears.

I guess rather than someone who is annoying you'd rather a drunk?

Looks like BC'ers did. Right after Gordo's drunk driving charge/conviction in January, 2003 BC Liberal support jumped 7% to 50% and Gordo's personal approval rating also jumped 5%. Go figure.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pr/20030218.htm

BTW, here's a very good historical read on the 1990's NDP government and the waste laid to BC's economic/financial landscape.

http://www.mgcltd.ca/news/natpost_140501.pdf

I have said it once and I will say it again. Once Gordo leaves his successor will likely be Dianne Watts (perhaps even Carole Taylor) and once that transition occurs the political dynamic is akin to a speeding freight train. It's unstoppable.

From an historial context one just need to look at Bill Bennett in 1986 (a Gordo clone with similar disapproval ratings) and when he stepped down and was replaced (by the wrong replacement leader) the Socreds still went on to win by a landslide.

[touraccuracy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It certainly seems so with our "now-he-is-now-he-isn't" Solicitor General. Add in the HST debacle, the upcoming BC Rail trial and the still unresolved John Les affair and I get the impression of a gov't past their "best before" date.

HST isn't a debacle. your grasp of it is.

trial... yes, let's await a verdict how about?

Originally Posted by josiebug

What a well thought out intelligent reply. Thanks for that contribution.

I guess rather than someone who is annoying you'd rather a drunk?

woah woah wait a second. when was the last time he had a drink? 8 years ago or something now? when was the last time you had a drink? when was the last time the average person had a drink?

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by josiebug

What a well thought out intelligent reply. Thanks for that contribution.

I guess rather than someone who is annoying you'd rather a drunk?

It was a well thought-out intelligent reply, thank you. Because that's what 98% of the population votes on (well of the 30% or so who actually do vote), and the 2% who actually watch the debates or something may still just not vote for the really annoying screechy one. Personality definitely comes before most other attributes, as your well thought-out and intelligent response to me proves, as his drinking habits have little to do with his policies.

I am so glad we can agree on this.

[josiebug]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Good point. Gordo is very annoying and the Liberals are centre/centre-right and you know what they stand for.

And then you have the inept NDP. While they were in government they supported the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge (Hansard 1993), introduced run-of-river IPP's, introduced tax credits for the northeast natural gas industry, etc. Good on them.

Now in opposition the NDP rails against everyone of those policies that they introduced.

Before the May, 2009 provincial election they were against the carbon tax and IPP's.

Just after the May, 2009 provincial election:



http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...#ixzz0nB51OWfU

And disgraced Moe Sihota, the new president of the BC NDP?

And the perennial tax and spend NDP now taking right-wing, Reform Party, Vanderzalm-like positions against taxes?

What does the NDP stand for except for silliness and flip-flop positions in a lust for power? I'm all ears.



Looks like BC'ers did. Right after Gordo's drunk driving charge/conviction in January, 2003 BC Liberal support jumped 7% to 50% and Gordo's personal approval rating also jumped 5%. Go figure.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pr/20030218.htm

BTW, here's a very good historical read on the 1990's NDP government and the waste laid to BC's economic/financial landscape.

http://www.mgcltd.ca/news/natpost_140501.pdf

I have said it once and I will say it again. Once Gordo leaves his successor will likely be Dianne Watts (perhaps even Carole Taylor) and once that transition occurs the political dynamic is akin to a speeding freight train. It's unstoppable.

From an historial context one just need to look at Bill Bennett in 1986 (a Gordo clone with similar disapproval ratings) and when he stepped down and was replaced (by the wrong replacement leader) the Socreds still went on to win by a landslide.

The party in opposition always bemoans the party in power--that's not exclusively an NDP thing... Take for example the current minister of gaming (and pro-casino stance) stating but a few years ago that casinos will kill babies for a small but comically hypocritical example. So while your examples are true, it goes both ways.

Changing the leader is irrelevant. Both parties are corrupt. The whole system is broken.

[josiebug]

Originally Posted by touraccuracy

HST isn't a debacle. your grasp of it is.

trial... yes, let's await a verdict how about?



woah woah wait a second. when was the last time he had a drink? 8 years ago or something now? when was the last time you had a drink? when was the last time the average person had a drink?

I don't know when he last had a drink. I had a drink last night.

Not sure where you're going with this....

[josiebug]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

It was a well thought-out intelligent reply, thank you. Because that's what 98% of the population votes on (well of the 30% or so who actually do vote), and the 2% who actually watch the debates or something may still just not vote for the really annoying screechy one. Personality definitely comes before most other attributes, as your well thought-out and intelligent response to me proves, as his drinking habits have little to do with his policies.

I am so glad we can agree on this.

I'm not saying that's not what's happening--I just don't understand why it's happening.

As for your 98% of the population figure, making up numbers sure is fun isn't!

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

It was a well thought-out intelligent reply, thank you. Because that's what 98% of the population votes on (well of the 30% or so who actually do vote), and the 2% who actually watch the debates or something may still just not vote for the really annoying screechy one. Personality definitely comes before most other attributes, as your well thought-out and intelligent response to me proves, as his drinking habits have little to do with his policies.

I am so glad we can agree on this.

Yeah, the party leader of the winning party becomes premier. Why would that person not factor heavily on your vote in a party politics dominated system is beyond my reasoning. You are not voting for just a representative, you are infact voting for a party and premier. You are not voting for someone to carry out your wishes, you are voting for the leaders platform you approve and want to see carried out.

Criticize the Gordon Campbell of now all you want. When he first became premier he was the golden boy of BC politics. He was instrumental in building BC Place, and was a part of the Expo movement. As Mayor he built the downtown Library, and built up Coal Harbour and the Expo Lands in Yaletown. Vancouver today is Gordon Campbell's creation. And people hardly mention his school years when he and his wife went to war torn Nigeria to teach, and his education focusing on urban planning from Dartmouth.

Gordon Campbell might be a bit of a dick now, and people are very upset over the HST, but he does have a political, education, and urban development background that lead him to be premier of BC.

Who the fuck is Carole James?

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by josiebug

Changing the leader is irrelevant. Both parties are corrupt. The whole system is broken.

You'll get no argument from me on that front. The only problem is, no one has come up with a better system.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Criticize the Gordon Campbell of now all you want. When he first became premier he was the golden boy of BC politics. He was instrumental in building BC Place, and was a part of the Expo movement. As Mayor he built the downtown Library, and built up Coal Harbour and the Expo Lands in Yaletown. Vancouver today is Gordon Campbell's creation. And people hardly mention his school years when he and his wife went to war torn Nigeria to teach, and his education focusing on urban planning from Dartmouth.

Gordon Campbell might be a bit of a dick now, and people are very upset over the HST, but he does have a political, education, and urban development background that lead him to be premier of BC.

Who the fuck is Carole James?

lol

she is a former public administrator. Yeah!

although i am a fan of gordo, he has dropped the ball this term. although, some of his ideas, i think, are pretty decent, none of them are properly communicated.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Now in opposition the NDP rails against everyone of those policies that they introduced.

Liberals are the same. The 2-party system is a joke.

The Liberals were the ones saying gambling was ruining our cities. One prominent MLA went on record saying the blood of children will be on the government's hands when they allow casinos in BC.

Don't forget the HST debacle. BC Rail sale, it goes on and on.

[flight_from_kamakura]

wow, i always regret reading this thread.

[ozonemania]

I have to say I'm a fan of Gordon Campbell. He's the first premier in a generation that actually had a vision. BC politics was a pure gong show before he came in and he took the bull by the horns and got things done.

Like BCPhil said above, his accomplishments are many and none of those would likely have happened without him. He is definitely a Vancouver-focussed premier, which I think was needed.

You may or may not agree with his stance on things but you have to admit he has been a can-do attitude leader. We all had a chance to vote the Liberals out over the years, but democracy said he should stay.

The real shame is that in all these years, we still don't have a formidable opposition. I would certainly entertain an NDP vote if I thought for a second that they were competent enough to govern.

It's not just about raising a stink about everything the ruling party does. Bring on the criticism, but bring something to the table, something constructive, something intelligent. Be a worthy adversary.

But really, I shake my head when I think how easily people forget all that Campbell has done for the province.

Maybe they've been in too long. Any government in power that long can't avoid perceptions of corruption, favouritism... real or not. In this kind of stable environment, you develop working, if not close, relationships with all the stakeholders that really matter. It would require extreme vigilance to make sure that everything is done purely at an arms-length, neutral manner (and as it should be).