Questions for my meeting with Phoenix District 6 Councilman Stanton?

[combusean]

Hi folks,

I've had a pending invite for a while to meet with Greg Stanton, the Phoenix City Councilman from District 6. His neighborhood, my old stomping grounds when I first got to Phoenix, is a NIMBY stronghold--Arcadia most relevantly but his district also covers all of Ahwatukee.

His subcommittee list, which I'm pretty sure is accurate is:

- Parks, Education, Bio-Science, and Sustainability
- Public Safety and Veterans
- Neighborhoods, Housing, Historic Preservation, and Arts and Culture

I've got a full hour with him on Thursday afternoon. If there's anything specific that you'd like me to talk about or ask--I know Hance Park is a frequent concern here--please let me know by posting it in this thread. Doesn't have to be relevant to the subcommittee list.

[SLC Projects]

Just make sure you are wearing pants during the meeting, otherwise you might feel a bit silly. :}

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by combusean

Hi folks,

I've had a pending invite for a while to meet with Greg Stanton, the Phoenix City Councilman from District 6. His neighborhood, my old stomping grounds when I first got to Phoenix, is a NIMBY stronghold--Arcadia most relevantly but his district also covers all of Ahwatukee.

He covers Arcadia and Ahwatukee? That just seem weird as those areas aren't really near each other.

I don't know if I've mentioned before, but Ive always loved your 'neighborhoods of Phoenix' map. I wish the City Council districts were based more upon something like that, with each individual neighborhood having an alderman (who's an elected volunteer) reporting to a council person.

Anyway, sounds like you have most of the important stuff covered. I'd ask him how it is that he gets to wear Hawaiin shirts at his government job.

[loftlovr]

I wonder if he'd discuss status pf certain projects, like the Melrose project for example...
I wonder if he would know the eventual fate of the building that say's "hotel" on I think Jackson street and the warehouse beside it.

Not much advice here- sry.

[DowntownDweller]

Anytime I talk to Tom Simplot (My city councilman), and I do once every two months or so, I seem to raise the same concerns. zoning/liquor license applicants, absentee landlords and the associated scum they result in, and police response to neighborhood concerns such as loud music and speeding.

[PHX31]

I'd somehow focus some questions on historic preservation. I honestly can't think of any questions right now. I'll keep thinking.

[DowntownDweller]

Originally Posted by PHX31

I'd somehow focus some questions on historic preservation. I honestly can't think of any questions right now. I'll keep thinking.

Living in Coronado, you should be well aware of the downsizing of the HPO with the budget issues. Heck, the expansion of the Coronado overlay has been delayed until 2009, 2010, or possibly even longer. Sad, but true, HPO isn't seen as providing a valuable or necessary service when times are tight.

[PHX31]

I'm not up on the issues that well, that's the problem. I'm not entirely sure the expansion of the Coronado overlay is a good idea. What do you think about it?

[DowntownDweller]

Originally Posted by PHX31

I'm not up on the issues that well, that's the problem. I'm not entirely sure the expansion of the Coronado overlay is a good idea. What do you think about it?

I'm a bit torn. By and large, the affected overlay expansion area are block/slump/brick ranch style houses of the late 30s, and post-war period. I don't much care for these, and don't really find them "historic" given the massive expansion of phoenix during this period. Period revival houses like your's and mine, yes. Block/slump/brick ranches, not so much. That being said, I do believe in the continuity of a neighborhood. Without HPO protection and the associated restrictions said protection causes, there would be nothing to stop someone from coming in, demolishing one of those ranches I loathe so much, and erecting one of the stucco hack and tract monstrosities which surround our little enclave of interesting structures for 30 miles in every direction. I tend to loathe hack and tract stucco-mud huts more.

Now, with that, any expansion in the "historic" housing stock results in a need for additional HPO resources. There is also an inverse effect on revenue by said historic designation due to the property tax discounts historic overlay properties are entitled to. Add in matching grant funds, and you are sucking down more money yet.

If the boundaries of the districts were very clearly defined, I'd love to say Victorian and Period Revival only, to hell with the rest, but infill, and splitting up of districts with VERY old infill somewhat prevents this train of thought.

[PHX31]

Thanks for the response... good thoughts.

I agree with you on almost all points. Also, aren't some areas or singular homes of the historic districts "contributing" or not? Your house must have some historic value (not just the pre-requisite age of 50+ years) in order to be a part of the district... or is it anything within the boundaries, or anything 50+ years?

Some of the areas that Coronado is expanding to are not only dime-a-dozen slump/brick ranches, but they are not well kept up at all.

One of my trains of thought is that they will be expanding the overlay, encompassing a lot more semi-blighted, not well-kept, "ghetto" areas. Thus, diminishing the perceived value, coziness, niceness of Coronado, especially to outsiders.

Combusean, maybe you can talk with Stanton about this? Especially the city's train of thought on creating more historic districts throughout the city. We're already 60+ years from the age of the post-war ranch house, and 50 years from homes built in the late 1950's. Pretty soon, we'll be 50+ years from the age of the 1960's P.O.S. ranch houses that dominate many areas of Phoenix. Will they too begin to gain recognition and gain "historic district" status? Diminishing all uniqueness of living in a historic district.

[PHX31]

.

[DowntownDweller]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Thanks for the response... good thoughts.

I agree with you on almost all points. Also, aren't some areas or singular homes of the historic districts "contributing" or not?

Correct. Take my very small district for example (due to the fact than when it was platted, and built-out, we were outside fo the COP boundaries for many years, new development was not continued in my immediate area for another decade and then some. )



That being said, contributing properties as noted on the inventory reports filed with the HPO can get the tax breaks, grants, etc. as applicable to historic properties. The non-contributing properties cannot. The contributing properties must conform to HPO oversite, but so must non-contributing properties within the districts boundaries. As thus, non-contributing properties are bound by restrictions, yet get no benefits other than better neighbors. Also, you have to have a relatively high ratio of conforming to non-conforming to get the overlay. I think it is 5:1 , but I would have to check.

Your house must have some historic value (not just the pre-requisite age of 50+ years) in order to be a part of the district... or is it anything within the boundaries, or anything 50+ years?

50 years really rubs me the wrong way. Not much "historic" worth preserving in Phoenix after 1933-1937. There are a precious few examples even in those 4 years, and I would prefer they only select specific properties from the period on a case by case basis, and chitcan the rest designation-wise past that point

That being said, I appreciate the specific neighborhoods of mid-century modern housing designed by renouned designers, but they should get some different designation than historic as far as I am concerned. Examples can be found here: http://www.modernphoenix.net/

Some of the areas that Coronado is expanding to are not only dime-a-dozen slump/brick ranches, but they are not well kept up at all.

I agree, and it is a pity, and raises many a question about intent.

One of my trains of thought is that they will be expanding the overlay, encompassing a lot more semi-blighted, not well-kept, "ghetto" areas. Thus, diminishing the perceived value, coziness, niceness of Coronado, especially to outsiders.

While I concur, HPO designation does tend to have the effect of both increasing property values instantaneously over neighboring non-designated properties though, which as a rule tends to result in a higher-quality of buyer moving in, which usually results in better kept/restored properties.

Combusean, maybe you can talk with Stanton about this? Especially the city's train of thought on creating more historic districts throughout the city. We're already 60+ years from the age of the post-war ranch house, and 50 years from homes built in the late 1950's. Pretty soon, we'll be 50+ years from the age of the 1960's P.O.S. ranch houses that dominate many areas of Phoenix. Will they too begin to gain recognition and gain "historic district" status? Diminishing all uniqueness of living in a historic district.

The city council person really doesn't have much say over HPO activities as a rule. Everytime I speak to Mr. Simplot, it is as a representative of the Avalon Neighborhood Association, not as a resident of Earll Place Historic District.

[DowntownDweller]

You can see specific zoning here:

http://phoenix.gov/PLANNING/zindex.pdf

[DowntownDweller]

Originally Posted by combusean

I know Hance Park is a frequent concern here--please let me know by posting it in this thread. Doesn't have to be relevant to the subcommittee list.

Ironically, Hance Park is split by Central Avenue between District 7 & 8. I'd be curious to see what a council person from district 6 would have to say about something not in his district.`

[scottkag]

I believe the Coronado Historic District is too large already. There are architectural styles with no common thread, and the areas east of 16th street are physically detached from the core Coronado neighborhood. Residents of these different areas have different goals and priorities.

If areas desire HPO protection, I'm all for it. But I think creating one for your own neighborhood instead of tagging along with an adjacent area will result in a stronger neighborhood identity, and a more successful HPO. However I'm sure this is more work.

Just my 2 [deflated] cents.

[DowntownDweller]

Originally Posted by scottkag

I believe the Coronado Historic District is too large already. There are architectural styles with no common thread, and the areas east of 16th street are physically detached from the core Coronado neighborhood. Residents of these different areas have different goals and priorities.

If areas desire HPO protection, I'm all for it. But I think creating one for your own neighborhood instead of tagging along with an adjacent area will result in a stronger neighborhood identity, and a more successful HPO. However I'm sure this is more work.

Just my 2 [deflated] cents.

I agree completely. Look at country club park vs. Cornonado proper. Country club park falls within the square mile which encompasses coronado, yet they are their own separate district with their own needs and concerns.

That being said, when we have an issue with something, I usually reach out to my neighboring districts for support (Cheery Lynn across 16th st, and Coronado to the SW).

Also, combusean, do you participate in your district activities? Heck, I am pictured on my district's site speaking at the crime summit about concerns and solutions to blight. (http://phoenix.gov/district4/photo/d4photogallery.html), slide 10.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

He covers Arcadia and Ahwatukee? That just seem weird as those areas aren't really near each other.

I don't know if I've mentioned before, but Ive always loved your 'neighborhoods of Phoenix' map. I wish the City Council districts were based more upon something like that, with each individual neighborhood having an alderman (who's an elected volunteer) reporting to a council person.

Anyway, sounds like you have most of the important stuff covered. I'd ask him how it is that he gets to wear Hawaiin shirts at his government job.

I live in the northwestern corner of District 6 (near Piestewa Peak). The district is gerrymandered to join the North Central, Biltmore, and Arcadia areas with Ahwatukee via a thin strip of land on the west side of I-10. I suspect the reason may be to preserve minority representation by leaving District 8 intact rather than splitting it and joining each half to a predominantly white, non-Hispanic district to the north and the south.

http://phoenix.gov/district6/1dist6map.html

As for issues to bring up with Greg Stanton, I'd say my number one priority (aside from the obvious stuff like police and fire) is shade. Why do we continue to allow projects to be built without shade? It doesn't matter how much we invest in transit and urban redevelopment, we'll never have a truly pedestrian-friendly city without adequate shade in the form of awnings, canopies, mature trees, etc. Has the city ever considered building some sort of shade requirements into zoning?

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by silverbear

http://phoenix.gov/district6/1dist6map.html

Good God that map is ridiculous. I guess it does put all the upper income white folks in one district though, but I'm not sure thats a good thing or a bad thing, just weird.

[combusean]

Maybe I shouldn't so much have phrased this as questions but there are probably enough things on this board that lots of you might feel particularly strongly about--maybe transit or affordable housing or the arts--my answer is Yes on all three.

Sound bites and talking points always help...

Here's the draft list i'm working on ...

* Why he decided to be Councilman and how he got there?

* Being a Republican councilman in a non-partisan but still heavily Democrat town

* The political culture in City Hall--doesn't seem to encourage dissent and free thought within their own ranks.

* Neighborhoods map and all that entails...

- The map is not done--it's a draft, but it does cover the entire city's planning area including areas like Anthem that will be annexed later

- 8 regions instead of 15 villages making it easier on City government and freeing staff a bit for cross-regional work...seeing as how most of the feedback I'm getting suggests Phoenix can hardly handle 15 villages.

- Phoenix 40 remnants/charter government in the Planning Commission
(at large PCers where we should have regional PCers)

- Denver, San Diego, many other large cities have ~100 planning districts and actual Neighborhoods
We have 15 villages that respect nothing.
When was the last time anybody outside of city government said they lived in Camelback East?

- Opening up the hearing officer process
Maybe the HO decisions should be held in the evenings along with the Neighborhood Board meetings?

- Special assessment districts for highly local improvements like the Downtown Core Enhanced Services District. The city as a whole is broke but particular neighborhoods might be proactive about solving ultra-local issues

- Identifying Phoenix's most famous neighborhoods--Arcadia, Biltmore

- Monument signs (Hillcrest over University Ave in San Diego, Los Angeles Downtown Center)

- Would people care about their neighborhoods if they could name them?

* The lack of an "invisible hand" guiding government today--our citizens are empowered but we still have no direction.

* Talk about the social responsibility of a functioning transit system (less DUIs, less drug abuse, indirect aid to the poor)

Doubling the bus system... 7 minute headways instead of 15, new 1/2 mile-street routes, 24 hour service.

* The frustration of Phoenix's many amenities all 45 minutes apart in traffic.

* Making Streets responsible for street trees instead of the overstretched Parks Department
OR
If the Parks and Preserves initiative passes, will there be money finally?

* Light rail on Camelback/44th St?

* NIMBYism
- Why couldn't a trade for HP zoning over the bank building allow Arcadia Place to be built?
- Why was CamelSquare shot down if they agreed to the concessions?
- Why was a month to allow a redesign unacceptable?

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by combusean

Maybe I shouldn't so much have phrased this as questions but there are pro
* Neighborhoods map and all that entails...

- The map is not done--it's a draft, but it does cover the entire city's planning area including areas like Anthem that will be annexed later

- 8 regions instead of 15 villages making it easier on City government and freeing staff a bit for cross-regional work...seeing as how most of the feedback I'm getting suggests Phoenix can hardly handle 15 villages.

- Phoenix 40 remnants/charter government in the Planning Commission
(at large PCers where we should have regional PCers)

- Denver, San Diego, many other large cities have ~100 planning districts and actual Neighborhoods
We have 15 villages that respect nothing.
When was the last time anybody outside of city government said they lived in Camelback East?

- Opening up the hearing officer process
Maybe the HO decisions should be held in the evenings along with the Neighborhood Board meetings?

- Special assessment districts for highly local improvements like the Downtown Core Enhanced Services District. The city as a whole is broke but particular neighborhoods might be proactive about solving ultra-local issues

- Identifying Phoenix's most famous neighborhoods--Arcadia, Biltmore

- Monument signs (Hillcrest over University Ave in San Diego, Los Angeles Downtown Center)

- Would people care about their neighborhoods if they could name them?

I like all of these sorts of thoughts. Too much of the Valley just feels like everywhere and nowhere. Anything that can be done to make neighborhoods stronger is a good thing in my book.

Also, do you have a version of your map w/ street alignments on it? I can tell for the most part where everything is, but a map w/ streets on it would help.