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  #421  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2011, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyg View Post
Why do you keep saying suburbs when neither end of the train is in the suburbs?
Is there an urban part of either Orlando or Tampa?
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  #422  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2011, 10:58 PM
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  #423  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2011, 11:39 PM
Clevelumbus Clevelumbus is offline
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I don't know about urban, but Epcot Center is diverse!
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  #424  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2011, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post
Michigan only got $158 million in the FY10 grants for the Kalamazoo to Detroit part of the corridor while they applied for $308M to purchase 135 miles of NS tracks and upgrade the tracks. Another several hundred million would provide for upgrading the tracks for 110 mph speeds.

IL did get $1.2 billion for Chicago to St. Louis, but that only covers 110 mph upgrades to part of the route. Additional funding would allow for double tracking, and upgrading other parts of the route for faster speeds and greater capacity.
Right... the portion of the St. Louis line north of Dwight receives no improvements. It's a shame, too... crawling through the Southwest Side is much more aggravating than crawling through cornfields. The double-tracking program is massively expensive... estimated at $3.4 billion IIRC. That's a huge chunk of change that could probably be better spent untangling rail congestion in the Chicago area.

Michigan should hopefully receive some of the Florida money, and I'd like for the Southeast Corridor to get money in a major way as well (going with the point of selling flyover country on the merits of HSR).

The Keystone Corridor I'm less concerned about... they're already running 90mph 110mph service, and investments there tie the major metropolis of Harrisburg into the NEC. It does lay the groundwork for Pittsburgh-Philly HSR, but the difficult part of that route is the mountainous stretch further west, which is also conveniently one of the busiest freight lines in the country. Is Pennsylvania even studying what this route needs for real 110mph service from end to end?
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Last edited by ardecila; Feb 22, 2011 at 8:23 AM.
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  #425  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2011, 11:56 PM
afiggatt afiggatt is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Right... the portion of the St. Louis line north of Dwight receives no improvements. It's a shame, too... crawling through the Southwest Side is much more aggravating than crawling through cornfields. The double-tracking program is massively expensive... estimated at $3.4 billion IIRC. That's a huge chunk of change that could probably be better spent untangling rail congestion in the Chicago area.
...
The Keystone Corridor I'm less concerned about... they're already running 90mph 110mph service, and investments there tie the major metropolis of Harrisburg into the NEC. It does lay the groundwork for Pittsburgh-Philly HSR, but the difficult part of that route is the mountainous stretch further west, which is also conveniently one of the busiest freight lines in the country. Is Pennsylvania even studying what this route needs for real 110mph service from end to end?
The $3.1 billion figure for the Chicago-St. Louis corridor was the omnibus project for the whole thing - double tracking the entire length, signal work, new rolling stock, station improvements, improvements into Chicago. The $1.14 billion Illinois got is a subset of the $3.1 billion proposal. So several billion more would complete the Chi-St Louis corridor upgrade on top of what has been granted.

As for the Keystone corridor, the Keystone service NYC to Philly to Harrisburg is Amtrak 5th busiest corridor service (after Northeast Regionals, Acela, Pacific Surfliner, Capitol Corridor in that order) and has shown steady growth in the years since PA put up $160 million to restore the tracks and electrified service. Harrisburg had 547 thousand and Lancaster PA had 515 thousand passengers using their stations in FY10. Because of the Penn Railroad legacy, this is a well established corridor and route. Amtrak owns the Philly to Harrisburg tracks, so this is a low hanging fruit for service improvements with no freight railroad issues to deal with.

There have been numerous PA studies at improving service to Pittsburgh. There was a recent study on adding a second daily train by extending a Keystone to Pitt. The real problem is that the Pittsburgh to Harrisburg 249 mile route was laid down around 150 years ago and is hardly the most direct route. Trip times are much longer than driving on the PA Turnpike. The question is whether it is worthwhile to spend a lot of money on improvements to the current tracks including possibly electrifying the entire segment which would run serious bucks with likely only modest improvements in trip time.

Or if we are to get serious about HSR in the US, look at building a new ROW to Pittsburgh through the mountains with modern tunneling technology. Connect Pittsburgh to Harrisburg to Philly and the NEC with a true HSR route. This would be one of the more challenging HSR corridors in the US to build. But, once HSR to Pittsburgh is in place, extend the HSR corridor to Cleveland to connect to the mid-West HSR system (this of course would be long after Gov. Kasich in Ohio has left office) for a east coast to Chicago HSR route.

Meanwhile, PA recently signed off on a $750K planning grant from the HSIPR stimulus to match $750K of PA state money for a study of the options for the Keystone West corridor. Improvements to the Keystone East corridor with upgrades to 125 mph speeds will help build support over time for extending higher speed and frequency service to Pittsburgh.
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  #426  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 4:02 AM
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One day left before the deadline and Rick Scott is still sticking to his Tea Party agenda, despite the majority of the state's wishes.

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Gov. Rick Scott's office, federal officials talking high-speed rail; Scott unmoved

TALLAHASSEE — Federal transportation officials have spent the past two days talking with Gov. Rick Scott's office in hopes of salvaging a high-speed rail project linking Tampa and Orlando.

But Scott remains convinced that no deal can be structured to remove all financial risk to the state.

"Nothing in the discussions so far alleviates the governor's concerns that Florida's state taxpayers would still be on the hook," spokesman Brian Hughes said.

U.S. Department of Transportation officials began discussions with the staff in Scott's office on Tuesday and they continued Wednesday.

Also involved is Tampa City Attorney Chip Fletcher and possibly other local officials.
Quote:
Scott and other critics think there is no way to alleviate the risk to the state. The state Transportation Department would have to provide technical assistance and grant the right of away along the project route.

Some think Scott acted prematurely, and another Republican questioned Wednesday why the governor did not wait to see bids from private companies.

"Maybe it was just a little too soon to give up," said U.S. Rep. Dan Webster, R-Winter Garden, a former state House speaker.

Still, Webster told the Orlando Sentinel that he did not think people should try to circumvent the governor. "He's the governor, and I believe we should respect that," Webster said.

Meanwhile, state transportation officials are still waiting on the results of a ridership study on the proposed line, due in early March. Scott has doubted that enough people would use the rail system to justify its cost.
full article: http://www.tampabay.com/news/transpo...cle1153377.ece
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  #427  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 4:17 AM
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I think Scott's gross negligence to do his job on the issue is reprehensible. He performed almost no due diligence of any kind. Unlike CEOs in the corporate world, the governor can't just claim ignorance and blame it on an underling. 24,000 jobs lost are on his head. If our government really was run like a business, his ass would already be fired.
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  #428  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 6:15 AM
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^ well, how's the bill to allow recalls in the state coming along?
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  #429  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 6:51 AM
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Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post
...
Or if we are to get serious about HSR in the US, look at building a new ROW to Pittsburgh through the mountains with modern tunneling technology. Connect Pittsburgh to Harrisburg to Philly and the NEC with a true HSR route. This would be one of the more challenging HSR corridors in the US to build. But, once HSR to Pittsburgh is in place, extend the HSR corridor to Cleveland to connect to the mid-West HSR system (this of course would be long after Gov. Kasich in Ohio has left office) for a east coast to Chicago HSR route.
...
By the time that could be completed, well-established (at least internationally) technology would allow average speeds high enough to do a Chicago-New York run in 5 hours. That's only about an hour longer than most Chicago Loop-New York Midtown trips involving airports can probably hope to be now. I'm not sure how well that route would fare in the winter, but outside of the snowiest and iciest times it should be at least as reliable as air travel.

Considering the direction of oil costs, I'm uncertain why we wouldn't be racing to establish alternatives to air travel that could be run without oil for key corridors. Electric cars may eventually replace petrol cars, but battery-powered airplanes will never be a replacement for jets (unless my search for ultra-light ultra-capacitors pans out).
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  #430  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 5:33 PM
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I hate Rick Scott with a passion! This moron is going to ruin our state and it's time to recall him!
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  #431  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 6:20 PM
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I happen to work in the transportation planning industry. Its over. This email just came in to my work account. Congrats to CA, NY, Midwest and others for the extra $2.4 billion coming your way. My guess, is that Orlando's Sunrail is next on the Tea Party chopping block.

Quote:
Subject: It's Now "Officially Now"

So you will know, just minutes ago, all negotiations have concluded…

…and the Governor, very shortly, will announce…

…there will be no High Speed Rail for Florida.

In spite of my overwhelming disappointment, I am very proud our combined efforts.

For sure, we did the right thing advancing this Regional Priority of the Central Florida Partnership…

…working together for a better community, working with others for a more competitive state, and, too, working in support of a stronger country.
We’ll talk more about this latter; but, right now, I wanted you to know of this forthcoming announcement.

Jacob V. Stuart
President
Central Florida Partnership
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  #432  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakelander View Post
Its over. This email just came in to my work account.
I feel for the people of Florida. What a short-sighted prick....

Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post
Harrisburg had 547 thousand and Lancaster PA had 515 thousand passengers using their stations in FY10.
That's insane! That's the equivalent of every single person in the Harrisburg metro area using the station at least once in 2010. That's more than twice the ridership/population ratio of other small Northeast cities like Providence and Trenton. Lancaster is even better. Kudos to the PRR for building a slice of England in America, where even small cities put up massive rail ridership.

Quote:
Or if we are to get serious about HSR in the US, look at building a new ROW to Pittsburgh through the mountains with modern tunneling technology. Connect Pittsburgh to Harrisburg to Philly and the NEC with a true HSR route. This would be one of the more challenging HSR corridors in the US to build.
If Colorado can build HSR in the I-70 corridor - which stumped interstate highway engineers for decades - surely Penna can build HSR through the Alleghenies.
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  #433  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 4:07 AM
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The Colorado thing is a big "if" as well, with only rough ideas about design, and even less about cost. Personally I think it would be nice but it's got a lot of hurdles if it's to actually happen.
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  #434  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 5:23 AM
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Well, Colorado's pushing rail systems almost as hard as Cali is. If California can get it done, that that bodes well for Colorado's attempt.
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  #435  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 7:06 AM
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California is several years ahead of Colorado on this one. California has routes, and funding. Colorado has made little progress toward either, aside from early studies. California also plans to connect major cities, which is a missing part of the Colorado concept, and pretty important for ridership.
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  #436  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 7:59 AM
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^ Wait, there aren't plans to connect Denver with Colorado Springs?
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  #437  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
I hate Rick Scott with a passion! This moron is going to ruin our state and it's time to recall him!
Trust me when I say, I know how you feel.

But our 3C Rail thing is just "on hold" now until Kas-idiot leaves office. So there's always hope!
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  #438  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
^ Wait, there aren't plans to connect Denver with Colorado Springs?
It's being studied, and there are excited boosters. Just no money, no designs, no move toward hiring team members, no legislation, etc. Maybe things will get started in earnest at some point.
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  #439  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
^ Wait, there aren't plans to connect Denver with Colorado Springs?
Yes there is, its Denver-Pueblo (with stops in C-Springs, Monument and Castle Rock) and Denver-Fort Collins north...

Scott
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  #440  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 6:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakelander View Post
I happen to work in the transportation planning industry. Its over. This email just came in to my work account. Congrats to CA, NY, Midwest and others for the extra $2.4 billion coming your way. My guess, is that Orlando's Sunrail is next on the Tea Party chopping block.
I’m not in transportation planning, but I consult in a field close to it. Although Wisconsin’s rejection of $800 million indirectly benefited me—I live in Illinois now—I lived in Wisconsin for many years and I was sorely disappointed Walker’s rejection (so I also empathize with any negative feeling you have to your Scott as well ).
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