Atlantic Highways Thread

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's a shame this looks like it terminates in Wellington. It looks like there's enough land to continue the extension to connect to HWY 101 near Lewis Lake, and then further onwards to 103. Create a big ring around Lower Sackville and Hammonds Plains.

Years ago the province started to reserve a corridor for an arterial that would connect Aerotech @ Hwy 102 to Hwy 101 and then down to Lucasville Road. The plans were abandoned for the most part but this project and Margeson Drive Interchange on Hwy 101 have been built. Two sections of the original lands have been transferred to HRM and are planned to be built. One section would extend south of Margeson Drive, cross the Sackville River and connect to Cranley Drive to Lucasville Road. This section will be a collector road. The other section will extend north of Margeson Drive to a road reserve that connects MacLennan Drive (Springfield Lake area) to Beaverbank Road near Windgate Drive.

This report from 2015 shows the southern section

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

What is the purpose of the Aerotech Connector Road? Looking at the map, it seems to me to be only an arterial to allow exurban commuters from the Wellington area another point of access to the 102.

There is nothing wrong with this of course, but it is not as if this is designed to provide improved airport access, or to create a new exurban ring road in the HRM. In essence, this is a modest proposal with modest goals...........

From what I understand the project has two main benefits. Currently Wellington residents need to travel ~5km in either direction to get onto the highway network. The main commuting flow is onto Highway 118 which has led to congestion issues on Trunk 2 and the connector road to Highway 118. This project will take the traffic from north of Fletcher's Lake and reroute it. The other benefit of this project is the airport and Aerotech are only accessible by freeways. This extension includes an AT trail to allow for non-motorized means of transportation.

[Dengler Avenue]

You're right. Currently access to HRM Airport is only via 102 unless one wanna detour big time onto those side roads...

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Curious: Why does N.L.-1 seem to have so many undivided 4-lane sections, particularly in the western part of the island?

Anecdotal......but those big Marine Atlantic Ferries can hold 425 cars or 90 tractor-trailers (or in combination) on 2.8 km of lanes on board......and depending on how the ferry is unloaded you could find a long line of trucks ahead of you so the long divided sections are pretty nice when heading eastbound and trying to get a head start with perhaps a 950 km drive ahead of you to St John's!!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Anecdotal......but those big Marine Atlantic Ferries can hold 425 cars or 90 tractor-trailers (or in combination) on 2.8 km of lanes on board......and depending on how the ferry is unloaded you could find a long line of trucks ahead of you so the long divided sections are pretty nice when heading eastbound and trying to get a head start with perhaps a 950 km drive ahead of you to St John's!!

As a PEIslander (and one old enough to remember many ferry trips before the Confederation Bridge was built), I can vouch for this. Especially going off island, one would notice some crazy driving behaviour as everyone tried to jockey for position going down NB-16 after getting off the ferry, at least as far as Port Elgin. There would be a lot of people passing multiple 18 wheelers at high speeds in order to get ahead of the pack. It was occasionally very dangerous. I would imagine things would be similar in Newfoundland

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As a PEIslander (and one old enough to remember many ferry trips before the Confederation Bridge was built), I can vouch for this. Especially going off island, one would notice some crazy driving behaviour as everyone tried to jockey for position going down NB-16 after getting off the ferry, at least as far as Port Elgin. There would be a lot of people passing multiple 18 wheelers at high speeds in order to get ahead of the pack. It was occasionally very dangerous. I would imagine things would be similar in Newfoundland

I always found it very strange that Nova Scotia built the 106 to the Wood Islands Ferry, which is more than sufficient, but NB never bothered to significantly upgrade Route 15 or 16, not even after the Bridge made traffic volumes go way up. The 106 is now overbuilt for its purpose, while Routes 15 and 16 are woefully insufficient. I can see 15 being twinned for a couple more exits and bypassed all the way to Port Elgin, and the same could be said of 16 to the bridge.

[Taeolas]

Twinning, or at least upgrading to a more modern Highway format, would make sense leading to the bridge.

Aside from being cheap, I suspect NB didn't do it because bridge traffic doesn't surge like Ferry traffic would. Bridge traffic would be a constant flow so you wouldn't have a big clump of transports normally. Whereas when the Ferry lands, you get a big clump of transports coming off mixed with 4-wheelers trying to get out of the clump, so an upgraded highway would make sense even if total numbers didn't warrant it.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Aside from being cheap, I suspect NB didn't do it because bridge traffic doesn't surge like Ferry traffic would. Bridge traffic would be a constant flow so you wouldn't have a big clump of transports normally. Whereas when the Ferry lands, you get a big clump of transports coming off mixed with 4-wheelers trying to get out of the clump, so an upgraded highway would make sense even if total numbers didn't warrant it.

Definitely.

If I were to assume i'd say NB would look to upgrade Route 15 past Cap-Pelé towards Port Elgin, and then the 16 from Port Elgin to the bridge. I imagine GNB would want to upgrade the route that they see as being used predominantly by NBers as opposed to 16 towards Sackville which would be used more-so by NS residents.

As of 2014 Route 15 has the higher AADT and with growth in Beaubassin and Cap-Pelé since then this decision should be all but assured.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Definitely.

If I were to assume i'd say NB would look to upgrade Route 15 past Cap-Pelé towards Port Elgin, and then the 16 from Port Elgin to the bridge. I imagine GNB would want to upgrade the route that they see as being used predominantly by NBers as opposed to 16 towards Sackville which would be used more-so by NS residents.

As of 2014 Route 15 has the higher AADT and with growth in Beaubassin and Cap-Pelé since then this decision should be all but assured.

I think there's space from where the twinning currently stops to where Route 133 intersects with it, to twin without messing with anyone's homes. That's 18 kilometres or so. From there you would have to expropriate or change direction.

Look where 15 crosses the Aboujagane southwest of Grand-Barachois. Looks like a twinned span to the south was planned a long time ago.

[MonctonRad]

I can certainly vouch for the fact that traffic tends to drop off after Cap Pele since this is the extreme eastern extent of the exurban Moncton commuter watershed.

All of the overpasses they built along NB-15 from Shediac as far as Cap Pele about 20 years ago were constructed double-wide with the intention of eventual twinning. Aside from some bridge construction, it should be relatively cheap to divide NB-15 to Cap Pele.

I don't think there is much justification to twin beyond this point, but highway upgrades could certainly be undertaken.

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I can certainly vouch for the fact that traffic tends to drop off after Cap Pele since this is the extreme eastern extent of the exurban Moncton commuter watershed.

All of the overpasses they built along NB-15 from Shediac as far as Cap Pele about 20 years ago were constructed double-wide with the intention of eventual twinning. Aside from some bridge construction, it should be relatively cheap to divide NB-15 to Cap Pele.

I don't think there is much justification to twin beyond this point, but highway upgrades could certainly be undertaken.

I think after route 11 is completed up to Bouctouche it could be a project worth looking for in the province. Plus it will be nice to hop on a 4 lane in cocagne and make all the way to Montreal and beyond after 2025. But the big question after all done would it be worth while looking at imposing tolls to keep the infrastructure in top shape?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I can certainly vouch for the fact that traffic tends to drop off after Cap Pele since this is the extreme eastern extent of the exurban Moncton commuter watershed.

All of the overpasses they built along NB-15 from Shediac as far as Cap Pele about 20 years ago were constructed double-wide with the intention of eventual twinning. Aside from some bridge construction, it should be relatively cheap to divide NB-15 to Cap Pele.

I don't think there is much justification to twin beyond this point, but highway upgrades could certainly be undertaken.

If the province can justify bypassing Glenwood east of Miramichi then it sure as hell would be worth while to twin route 15 to the exit where the 133 ends and from there extend the controlled access 2 lane highway bypassing Botsford Portage and Shemogue.

They also need passing lanes on the little stretch of 2 lane highway before the bridge. If you’re behind a transport on the bridge it’s really annoying because they’re travelling much slower. Most years in the summer it’s even worse with everyone and their big campers. Speaking of camper traffic, the 114 towards Fundy could use a couple passing lanes too. In the summer that road is one long line of campers, especially on long weekends.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As a PEIslander (and one old enough to remember many ferry trips before the Confederation Bridge was built)......

And going back to the late '60s.....I'm old enough to remember (just barely) when there were no parking lots/terminals in PEI or NB where you assembled to wait for the ferry. Cars just lined up along the road shoulder and inched forward as a boat load would leave.

Same at Wood Islands/Caribou.

[Dengler Avenue]

Is it really impossible to twin the Confederation Bridge from an engineering standpoint? I’m thinking that, if it’s feasible, maybe we can collect tolls for a few more years after 2033(?) and use some of that towards a twin span. Of course it also means realigning a few roads on P.E.I.‘s approach too (especially that light).

Also speaking of P.E.I., I’m sad about what they did with TCH and Highway 2 intersection. I feel that it precludes the possibility of an interchange there in the future...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Is it really impossible to twin the Confederation Bridge from an engineering standpoint? I’m thinking that, if it’s feasible, maybe we can collect tolls for a few more years after 2033(?) and use some of that towards a twin span. Of course it also means realigning a few roads on P.E.I.‘s approach too (especially that light)...

Well, the guaranteed lifespan of the current bridge is 100 years (until 2095). At some point, it would make sense to build a pre-emptive parallel second span so that there would be redundancy in the event of catastrophic failure.

If the population of the Island continues to grow, twinning might become inevitable anyway, but if I were to guess, we won't see it for another 50 years.

[OliverD]

Not much point in twinning the bridge if neither side of it is twinned.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Not much point in twinning the bridge if neither side of it is twinned.

Very true, and I am not advocating it, especially since I doubt we will ever see any divided highways on PEI, but, as I said, they will have to eventually plan for a replacement of the Confederation Bridge towards the end of the century, and I could see a parallel span being built at that point.

[OliverD]

Just for fun let's do a tunnel next time around.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Just for fun let's do a tunnel next time around.

A tunnel was actually the first proposed fixed link between NB and PEI in the late 19th century.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

A tunnel was actually the first proposed fixed link between NB and PEI in the late 19th century.

I had a business prof at UPEI who was clausterphobic in the 80's. he swore he would never leave the Island if a tunnel was built. The other thing I remember him saying and I cannot confirm this, was a tunnel was cost prohibitive. Same prof said They would have to build the tunnel below the bedrock of the strait, To do that the tunnel would need to start boring the hole 1.5 KM inland on both
sides to make the incline/decline safe for cars to go underneath the strait.

I am no engineer, and it was 1985 or 1986 however, he listed many other reasons why tunnel was not a good option. Unstable soil structure on PEI Would also add big ,$$$'s to cost.

A plus for a tunnel, the wind often shuts the bridge to high sided vehicles. With a tunnel this would not be an issue. So no more grocery store perishables rotting on the side of the road withy a shut bridge. An ex-store manager co-worker of mine told me when a store manager places a stock order from a distribution warehouse in NB and the order leaves that order is that stores. If the wind kicks up and the bridge shuts too bad.


A tunnel would be great, I will never see it.

[ghYHZ]

There was a PEI Tunnel proposed as far back as the 1880s

http://vre2.upei.ca/islandmagazine/f...batch2-248/OBJ