NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by k1052

Let's not kid ourselves that Cuomo wasn't the driving force behind this.

Cuomo was never the driving force behind this. That would be Vornado/Related.

Originally Posted by k1052

Hochul may or may not pick it up to champion. Could change form too.

There's almost no chance that Cuomo's Lt. Governor, who was more moderate/business friendly than him, decides to interfere with Empire State Development and the bi-state Port Authority to torpedo the redevelopment of Penn. For what purpose?

[NYguy]

^ Again, we don’t want to touch on politics, but this is a project that transcends any administration, and with 2 decades to completion was going to work its way through different administrations anyway.

Originally Posted by Hudson11

From what I understand, the property that Vornado already owns in the district is significant. To that end, the state doesn't need to run the show, but partnering with the state means streamlining the process, introducing eminent domain to acquire outstanding blocks and bypassing the city approvals.

The property Vornado controls/owns is the northern portion of the site - not the actual planned expansion site. Vornado could start building 15 Penn today if it wanted to because it was approved by the city a decade ago. The Penn Station expansion plan itself has been around prior to the governor’s making a push for it. We have the momentum now, especially with Gateway becoming a reality. All of the state agencies will continue to operate as planned.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Cuomo was never the driving force behind this. That would be Vornado/Related.

There's almost no chance that Cuomo's Lt. Governor, who was more moderate/business friendly than him, decides to interfere with Empire State Development and the bi-state Port Authority to torpedo the redevelopment of Penn. For what purpose?

Without his will it's just another plan collecting dust at ESD, one amongst many. This thread literally began with him seeing seeing it as another legacy project. That he would use his power and political capital to move it forward makes it his baby. It gained additional importance to him once he became embattled.

Will Hochul lend it that level of support? I don't know and nobody else does either. She's "business friendly" but it is unknown how that will manifest itself policy wise. This is one amongst a small bevy of Cuomo pushed projects that have less than certain futures now.

Given the funding in the infra bill Amtrak's Penn South complex is not super likely to come to fruition. Gateway is getting 6B and Amtrak can argue for their share of another 24B in NEC money which many other states are going to have their hands out for. This further lessens the arguments for a significant chunk of the project.

[NYguy]

Nothing has happened, and this thread has already seen more activity and speculation than when there was actual activity concerning this development.

So, short of any actual news or facts regarding it’scstatus, can we all just give it a rest?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by k1052

Without his will it's just another plan collecting dust at ESD, one amongst many.

What "will"? Cuomo has had no support since the harassment allegations broke. He's been finished since Feb.

You seem to be assuming that this is Cuomo's project. It isn't. Or that he has political capital. He has none. Or that Empire Station is just a random proposal. It isn't.

Originally Posted by k1052

Will Hochul lend it that level of support? I don't know and nobody else does either.

What don't you know? You seriously believe Hochul will actively seek to destroy NY State by blocking any improvements to Penn?

Originally Posted by k1052

Given the funding in the infra bill Amtrak's Penn South complex is not super likely to come to fruition. Gateway is getting 6B and Amtrak can argue for their share of another 24B in NEC money which many other states are going to have their hands out for. This further lessens the arguments for a significant chunk of the project.

Say what?

Gateway flows to Penn South. There is no Gateway absent Penn South (and vice-versa). Penn has zero capacity, right now, so if you built Gateway and didn't build Penn South, Gateway would have zero functionality.

You seriously believe that Amtrak and the Port Authority will seek to massively expand rail access to Penn, but will oppose any efforts at building platforms, meaning trains can't actually enter Penn? And that a NY Gov. will agree?

And what does the current infrastructure bill have to do with anything? Penn South will be redeveloped over decades. No one expects it to be fully funded in 2021. The current bill is a small initial step for U.S. transit, nothing more.

[NYguy]

Let’s just cool it until there is news.

[NYguy]

Hopefully, we can keep this thread open.


Small update here on the status, mostly has to do with the retention of FX as site planners....

[Crawford]

Nice to see the environmental review progressing, but geesh, the land-use process in NY is sooo laborious.

It would be nice if Hochul, long-term (I assume she'll be reelected) works to streamline this byzantine process.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Nice to see the environmental review progressing, but geesh, the land-use process in NY is sooo laborious.

It would be nice if Hochul, long-term (I assume she'll be reelected) works to streamline this byzantine process.

There is only so much the governor, any governor can do to move things along faster. It doesn’t have to go through the city’s own process, where things can get hung up, but its still a process.

Likely mayor Eric Adams notes the red tape dragging as well…


https://nypost.com/2021/09/17/no-one...e-blasios-nyc/

”We were a city where we built empires, but we’re a city made up of agencies and those agencies are in the way of building empires.”

I’m for building more Empires. (And Empire States). It takes a lot of time to get things approved (as they are studied, debated, and studied and debated again). The plan here will likely have some tinkering, it was gonna have that either way. But none of the towers other than 15 Penn were gonna be started this decade.

[NYguy]

https://www.amny.com/news/empire-sta...ochul-support/

Empire Station Complex proponents call on Hochul to charge ahead with plan, Hotel Pennsylvania’s demise


By Mark Hallum
October 12, 2021

Economic development groups, including the Hotel Trades Council, issued letters for Governor Kathy Hochul to proceed with redevelopment of the Penn Station district and supported the demolition of the Hotel Pennsylvania.

While opponents to the Cuomo-era plan have pleaded the cause of preserving what they see as historic structures in Midtown, The 34th Street Partnership, the New York Building Congress and the union say there is no path in any direction but forward with the Empire Station Complex.

”It’s critical that we show residents and commuters that we are ready to welcome them back. Yet our aging mass transit infrastructure, which stalled commutes before March 2020, will still be there as people head back to the office,” wrote Carlo Scissura, president of the Building Congress, in a letter. “Penn Station is the busiest commuter hub in the nation, and its strained infrastructure and inefficient systems have long caused chronic congestion and delays. It wasn’t designed to carry 600,000 daily commuters. To make matters worse, commuters exit their train into a dark, cramped subterranean station that does nothing to brighten anyone’s mood.”

Despite up to two decades of activism to save the Hotel Pennsylvania, Hotel Trades Council AFL-CIO President Richard Maroko said in his statement that it’s time for the 100-year-old structure to make way for something new.

“The Hotel, which is part of the Project, is closed and we are informed that there are no plans to reopen it, meaning that its employees have little prospect for re-employment. However, we have negotiated an agreement with Vornado, the owner of the Hotel, which provides real opportunities for those employees should the Project proceed,” Maroko said.

“Under the agreement, Vornado will make significant payments to employees to help them during their period of unemployment and offer them jobs in the new hotels Vornado intends to develop in the Project, as well as offer preferential hire in other buildings owned by Vornado. Because of this agreement, the Union believes that the workers we represent from the Hotel are protected and that the Project will provide them additional opportunities.”

Opponents to the demolition of the building at 401 7th Ave., which has 2,000 rooms, have appealed to the Landmark Preservation Commission. Efforts which have been met with rejection as the agency, created after the destruction of the original Penn Station, has deemed the hotel in its current condition as not in the best interest of the city.

….. Dan Biederman, president of the 34th Street Partnership, called for Hochul to move forward with few changes to General Project Plan in the interest of boosting the eventual rebound of the local economy for office workers who will benefit from having transit amenities so close new developments.

“This plan will transform the Penn District in a way that hasn’t been done for decades, by upgrading our mass transit system to ease congestion and boost circulation, improving pedestrian and vehicular flow, and providing a shot in the arm for private development to build new, more sustainable office buildings that will attract the world’s leading companies and talent,” Biederman said. “New York’s reputation must be rebuilt, and if we are going to continue as a global leader, we must demonstrate our capacity for innovation on sustainable infrastructure and economic recovery.”

While former Governor Andrew Cuomo made the Empire Station Complex a central facet to his 2020 and 2021 State of the State addresses, the Hochul administration has not released any changes to the project plan.

It includes the annexation of land to the south of the station, renovating the space that saw up half a million commuters per day before the pandemic, and the rights for developers to erect up to ten new skyscrapers, a ploy that will help fund the estimated $306 billion improvements.

[Sky88]

Well we will see what will be the response of the new governor Kathy Hochul on this matter.

Sure the Pennsylvania Hotel will be demolished, but I'm not cheering on Vornado's new project on that site. I don't like the tower as it is. We could do better. There is still time to make some changes. As well as the towers planned for site 2, although still provisional, they are too massive and block the view all around. My hope is for a tower similar to the project Gotham Gateway Spire - SHoP Architects (1,700 + ft) for site 3 and for site 2 two slightly lower towers (1,100 ft).

A tower like to the Gotham Gateway Spire could become the new symbol of New York together with the One World Trade Center tower and the beautiful Commodore tower.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Sky88

Well we will see what will be the response of the new governor Kathy Hochul on this matter.

Sure the Pennsylvania Hotel will be demolished, but I'm not cheering on Vornado's new project on that site. I don't like the tower as it is. We could do better. There is still time to make some changes. As well as the towers planned for site 2, although still provisional, they are too massive and block the view all around. My hope is for a tower similar to the project Gotham Gateway Spire - SHoP Architects (1,700 + ft) for site 3 and for site 2 two slightly lower towers (1,100 ft).

A tower like to the Gotham Gateway Spire could become the new symbol of New York together with the One World Trade Center tower and the beautiful Commodore tower.

Well, that tower has no bearing on the ES project, except as a funding tool. It would still be built without it.

As for moving forward, this is certainly moving forward. As seen above, FX Collaborative was retained to continue working on the planning. We’ll see what, if any, changes are in store.

[NYguy]

This seems a little silly, but I'll post it anyway....



https://architecturehereandthere.com...new-york-city/

Two visions of New York City








October 13, 2021
by David Brussat

A pair of essays, one in Crain’s New York by Alexandros Washburn, a former chief urban designer for New York City, and another in the New York Daily News by Josh Alan Friedman, author of Tales of Times Square, offer compelling cases for rebuilding the original Penn Station and against building “Houston on the Hudson,” as Friedman calls the Cuomo plan.

Imagine the difference between arriving in New York after Penn Station is rebuilt and arriving after the Empire Station Complex has been completed.

This post proposes that public opinion has much more influence today, and that forces aligning to block the Empire Station Complex and rebuild the old Penn Station can succeed where weak efforts to save the old Penn Station failed.

.....In the Oct. 28 panel, Lynn Ellsworth of HumanScaleNYC described the currently dominant architectural language as a cage into which most design and planning officials and professionals have locked themselves. That is why – even in a nation where markets run by supply and demand are supposed to rule – the architects, the developers, the planning officials and all others involved in building cities never listen to the public. Instead, in New York, the nation’s leading city of commerce, a topsy-turvy dedication to “generic dead space,” as Friedman puts it, undergirds Cuomo’s Empire Station Complex: ten huge new glass skyscrapers between Hudson Yards and the Empire State Building, with at least one of them taller than the Empire State Building itself.

The official project description provided by the Empire State Development Corporation‘s environmental impact statement contains no attempt to describe the appearance of the proposed “transit-oriented commercial district.” It is as if the appearance of buildings has no impact on our civic environment. Only the square leasable footage envisioned by developer Vornado Realty Trust matters.

Only the list of proposed building heights offers any feel for the eventual result. The heights, as listed, would range from the tallest at 1,300 feet on downward to 1,270, 1,130, 1,052, 1,018, 975, 936, 748, 664 and 235 feet. (The Empire State Building rises 1,250 feet.) The massing of buildings on the EIS maps is speculative, though perhaps not more so than the heights themselves.

With negligible warning from the project description, projecting the likely look of these behemoths nevertheless requires little more than your impression of the city’s two latest large development projects: Ground Zero and Hudson Yards.

No doubt the dominant style of skyscrapers in the Empire Station Complex would follow these patterns, because the same firms that designed the glass canyons at both locations will be asked to submit requests for proposals that fit the latest architectural trends. If anything, perhaps we may expect the ten towers to be dumbed down from the more abstract chaos of the two supposed exemplars.

The ten buildings would be clustered up close around the north, south and east edges of Penn Station, reaching up in height to as much as eight times the height of the station (and arena) itself. The ten buildings would completely block the station and its environs from the sun almost all day and almost all year.

To walk out of Penn Station would force New Yorkers and visitors to confront a phalanx of towers antiseptic in aspect, producing dark shadows or reflective glare depending on the sun’s location in the sky. I could not find a wind study in the EIS, but clearly the building heights and the sheer, featureless architecture of the ten towers would cause a wind-tunnel buffeting of passersby.

[NYguy]

https://www.amny.com/transit/gov-hoc...oup-breakfast/

Hochul boosts Cuomo-era transit mega projects at construction trade group breakfast


By Kevin Duggan
October 14, 2021

Governor Kathy Hochul vowed to continue several mass transit mega-projects first proposed by her predecessor Andrew Cuomo at a construction trade group event Thursday morning, Oct. 14.

“As your governor, I’m going to make sure that we have a world-class transportation system going forward in the future. We’re not done building, we’re just getting started,” Hochul told the New York Building Congress at a breakfast event in Midtown. “Our rail, our highways, our airport infrastructure, we’re just getting warmed up.”

After hitting the brakes on the controversial LaGuardia AirTrain project earlier this week, the chief executive promised the influential building industry association that she will move ahead with big proposals pushed by the disgraced ex-governor, including an overhaul of the Port Authority Bus Terminal and an expansion and redevelopment of Penn Station.

“My friends we have to fix this. This is New York, this is not a third-world country, let’s get rid of that eyesore and make it something magnificent that people are so proud of,” Hochul said of the Midtown bus hub.

“And the same with Penn Station. That is one scary place my friends, let’s get that done,” she said. “I brought my daughter up there not long ago, I said, ‘Sweetheart I hope I see you again, I’ve enjoyed being your mom.’”

Hochul teased her January 2022 State of the State address for more projects the state plans to undertake.

“When you see my State of the State address, I hope you have this sense of ‘Wow, that’s awesome. That is incredible what we’re going to do,’” the governor said.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey unveiled its $10 billion revamp of the world’s busiest bus terminal in January of this year, with plans to install charging infrastructure and move to an all-electric fleet, while increasing rider capacity by 40%.

For Penn Station, former Governor Cuomo announced in his 2020 State of the State address the huge $306 billion construction project dubbed Empire Station Complex by the state’s Empire State Development to expand the train mecca and erect 10 skyscrapers in a two-block radius around it, dubbing the newly-created commercial area the “Penn District.”

The latter scheme has drawn criticism from preservationists who have called on the state to save several old buildings within the project’s scope from the wrecking ball, such as the century-old Hotel Pennsylvania.

Hochul’s announcements come just two days after the Port Authority officially hit pause on its contested $2.1 billion AirTrain proposal for LaGuardia Airport Tuesday after the governor asked them to review alternative mass transit options.

[NYer34]

^^ Would any of this project *actually* improve any of the exisiting Penn Station? Feels like the bait-and-switch developer handout of the century.

[Manitopiaaa]

If Hochul brings back the old Penn Station, I'll build a shrine to her in my closet.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by NYer34

^^ Would any of this project *actually* improve any of the exisiting Penn Station? Feels like the bait-and-switch developer handout of the century.

No, it’s not. It was stated since the beginning, it’s basically two different projects of a greater whole. Just as Moynihan was. This particular project is basically the enlargement of Penn Station, which is the expansion south to create more tracks and platforms. The development of skyscrapers has several objectives, the most important being a funding source for this added capacity.

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

If Hochul brings back the old Penn Station, I'll build a shrine to her in my closet.

That would be a shame, because the old Penn Station was built to handle a fraction of the population it needs to serve today.

Hochul is moving the project forward (with maybe some meaningless changes). She will get the same NIMBY reception.

[NYguy]

https://therealdeal.com/2021/10/14/h...ation-details/

….. the governor stopped short of explaining what she meant by getting the station’s renovation “done.” Cuomo’s vision of a southern expansion, funded by the development of 10 new towers in its immediate vicinity, has drawn the ire of community leaders and elected officials.

It is unclear to what extent the state will modify the former governor’s plan. Empire State Development officials have previously said they are considering including residential units on three of the sites, rather than just the 1,000-plus hotel rooms and 14 million square feet of office space originally contemplated. Hochul has yet to reveal who will lead ESD following the departures of chairman Steven Cohen and president Patrick Foye over the summer.

A spokesperson for the governor said Hochul is working with community members, elected officials and experts to “ensure any plan to improve the Penn Station district maximizes benefits to the public.”

[NYguy]

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/commer...-having-moment

Midtown's office market is having a moment


October 25, 2021
EDDIE SMALL
AMANDA GLODOWSKI

After years of playing second fiddle to massive new developments arriving elsewhere in the city, Midtown's office market is experiencing a renaissance.

Driving the momentum are employers' desire to make the commute easier for employees hesitant to return following 19 months of remote work and the highest amount of new office space coming to the neighborhood since the redevelopment of Times Square in the 1980s.

Companies are flocking to the market to help some of their employees who live outside the city avoid a double commute, for which they must take a train into Manhattan and then get on the subway for another leg of their trip. The pockets of Midtown closest to major transportation hubs such as Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station are thus seeing a particularly strong popularity boost, said Jeffrey Peck, vice chairman at real estate brokerage Savills.

“ Most tenants today are in the market not only to be in Midtown, but to be proximate to Grand Central and Penn Station like never before," he said.

About 36% of Manhattan's 540 million-square-foot office market is within a 10-minute walk of such transit hubs, and easy access has become even more of a talent draw coming out of the pandemic.

Leasing activity was particularly strong in Midtown during the third quarter, when companies took about 3.3 million square feet of space in the neighborhood, compared with 1.8 million square feet in Midtown South and 775,000 square feet downtown, according to the latest office report from CBRE. This was even more activity for the neighborhood than during the third quarter of 2019—before the pandemic—when Midtown saw about 2.9 million square feet of leasing compared with about 2.6 million in Midtown South and 1.8 million downtown, CBRE found.

A number of high-profile new office buildings in Midtown, such as SL Green's One Vanderbilt and L&L Holding Co.'s 390 Madison Ave., have added to the neighborhood's appeal and could be a bright spot for its future. With the Long Island Rail Road poised to reach Grand Central next year, Midtown will become an even more attractive option for the endpoint of a commute—and potentially take away one of the main draws of offices near the much-maligned Penn Station, even as officials work to extend the Metro-North Railroad to that station as well.

“Within our portfolio, clearly the buildings that surround Grand Central Terminal—whether Third Avenue, Lexington, Park—anything that's within a five- to 10-minute walk of Grand Central seems to be getting a lot more leasing velocity," said Steven Durels, SL Green's director of leasing. "With the LIRR coming to Grand Central, nobody's really going to need to sacrifice. The physical environment that surrounds Grand Central is a less chaotic assault on the senses than Penn Station."

Overdue new product

One Vanderbilt is about as close to Grand Central as an office building can possibly get. SL Green opened the building to much fanfare in September 2020, and it is more than 91% leased, the company said, despite the rough state of the office market.

Its proximity to Grand Central comes up in almost every discussion the company has about the building with prospective tenants, Durels said. That it is a new building plays a role in its appeal as well and makes it more competitive with places such as Hudson Yards, he said.

"Midtown didn't have as much new product and/or very heavily renovated product, so tenants were sacrificing on location and going to Hudson Yards," Durels said. "But now that you've seen some big buildings go through major renovations and new structures like One Vanderbilt coming online, tenants don't have to sacrifice location, and they're willing to pay for better-quality product and better-located product."

The newer office buildings are at least as important to Midtown's popularity as its being home to Grand Central. Between 2011 and 2021, the area had a net loss of 11.7 million square feet worth of large office tenants, mostly because they were flocking to newer developments in other parts of Manhattan, real estate brokerage Colliers found. Now, however, the neighborhood is getting almost 9 million square feet of new office space by 2024, which surpasses downtown for the future outlook. (CBRE considers Hudson Yards to be part of the Midtown office market, whereas Colliers considers it part of Midtown South.)

Although New Yorkers are never short on things to criticize about Penn Station, that area is poised for a major transformation, thanks in large part to Vornado Realty Trust's ambitious plans for the neighborhood. The company has already completed its redevelopment of 330 W. 34th St., and it is at work on transforming the Farley Building at 390 Ninth Ave. and two projects dubbed Penn 1 and Penn 2 into new office buildings.

Related Cos. spokesman Jon Weinstein cited Hudson Yards' proximity to Penn Station as a big reason why the developer has "zero concern" about its office buildings losing popularity coming out of the pandemic.

“Our Hudson Yards office space is 93% leased, with the highest rents in the city—reflective of the outsized demand," he said.

[JMKeynes]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/n...yc-hochul.html